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Old May 21st, 2016, 05:43 PM   #1
Twisthem488
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Low power and slipping into neutral.

A few months ago I got on the highway and eventually kicked it up to 6'th. As I did I lost a lot of power and at full acceleration was still slowing down from 60mph. I kicked it down a few gears and back up with new change, and couldn't get the bike revving higher than ~7k. After pulling over, restarting the bike (sorry, I'm a tech guy. Its all I know) it worked fine and I didn't have any more issues so I thought it was a fluke. Well a couple nights ago I was riding it again, and the same problem. I shifted into 2nd and could barely accelerate. 100% throttle gave me very little power and very low revs. I stopped and started again and everything was fine for a few minutes, and then again, right after shifting, had the same issue, and then bike went into neutral!

I rode around just a little bit longer to try and identify what was happening. Shifting up or down at the time didn't effect the low power, neither did adjusting the choke. I revved the hell out of it and it seemed to "catch" and jumped from 6k to 11k and then worked no problem. Does anyone have any leads? I love my 250 and hate to see it like this. Plus, the weathers great and I need some leaning in my life!

Some info that I realized might be helpful. 2009 ninja 25r with I think 22k miles. Oil change at the beginning of the year with T6. Engine runs fine apart from this problem although my mileage is pretty low at ~45.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 06:57 PM   #2
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My first guess is one cylinder is firing intermittently. Perhaps a broken wire.
If it happens again; pull over but don't try to "fix" it by revving and shifting etc. Instead; try to keep it running a few minutes then see if one header is hotter than the other. If one is hotter than the other then you know one cylinder isn't firing.
Now having said that; it's safest and recommended you get it fixed before you hurl your mortal body into the arms of traffic! It could be fatal if for instance you were making a left turn between oncoming traffic! As for the shift into neutral; I'm betting it wasn't fully engaged so it kicked out of gear when the power changed or you didn't realize your foot tickled the shifter when you reacted to the change in power.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 07:04 PM   #3
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Do you park the bike inside? Or is it an outside bike? Could be water in the fuel? I agree with SLOWn60 could be a loose lead to one of the coils? Or the HT leads are loose, spark plug caps dirty.

Nothing worse than an intermediate problem, makes it hard to diagnose, just check the basics and see what that does.
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 05:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisthem488 View Post
..........couldn't get the bike revving higher than ~7k........... Engine runs fine apart from this problem although my mileage is pretty low at ~45.
As stated above, this indicates an intermittent problem, with the supply of either sparks or fuel.

Check for loose connections/wires, spark plugs, cool cylinder, tank's vent, water in bowls of carburetors, leaking vacuum hoses, clogged fuel filters (inside tank and exterior if any) and air filter.
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 02:56 PM   #5
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Those are all good leads guys, thanks a ton. I plan on riding around the neighborhood gently to see if I can replicate it again, and if so maybe I can discern if both cyliders are firing. I do keep it outside and it has rained recently, but I've ridden it fine between then and the problem. I'll check the spark plugs too to see if maybe one is fouled. I'll update you all when i get more info.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 11:19 PM   #6
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Did it pop up again?
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Old June 6th, 2016, 12:07 PM   #7
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Not a single issue again. Maybe it will pop up in another couple months :shrug:
I just wanted to be proactive about it before it becomes a real issue. Its time for me to get my valves checked and I know they are important (although I don't know much else about them) Is it likely they would have anything to do with this?
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Old June 6th, 2016, 12:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisthem488 View Post
Not a single issue again. Maybe it will pop up in another couple months :shrug:
I just wanted to be proactive about it before it becomes a real issue. Its time for me to get my valves checked and I know they are important (although I don't know much else about them) Is it likely they would have anything to do with this?
No. Valves would have nothing to do with the characteristics you've described.
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Old June 6th, 2016, 12:13 PM   #9
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Not if it was intermittent. Valves out of adjustment could cause a drop in power at some point, but it wouldn't recover.

EDIT: What Bill said.
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Old June 6th, 2016, 12:22 PM   #10
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My money says you have an electrical gremlin. An intermittent break in continuity. It could be a connector or spark wire etc that may have vibrated back to a better connection or perhaps was improved by poking around and jiggling the faulty wiring. It is likely to reoccur.
If it doesn't reoccur then it's probably a bit of bad fuel that has flushed itself through or maybe water in the tank that has flushed through. That could reoccur of course but if it does reoccur: focus on the electrical. Get familiar with all your connectors, contact cleaner & dielectric grease. @Ghostt has a good, recent article on the subject. I'm sure he'll point you to it.
Remember; it WILL reoccur at the most inconvenient time so be prepared!
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Old June 6th, 2016, 01:16 PM   #11
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I didn't bother doing a write-up on applying dielectric grease, it's pretty much a straight forward job.

Just take every connector, unplug them, clean the connectors with electric contact cleaner, make sure there's no corrosion, then fill the connector with dielectric grease, especially the female plug, then plug them back together.

Also do the spark plug boots as well, after you service the caps of course.

If anyone needs further information please let me know.
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Old June 6th, 2016, 01:22 PM   #12
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My write-up on servicing the spark plug caps,

Even bad plugs should do something, unless they are totally shot.

Did you renew the HT leads, and disassemble the caps?

Make sure you disassemble the caps, and clean them, and yes the caps get cruddy.

Here my write-up,

Quote:
Short explanation: The inside of the hard plastic caps accumulate crud the can short out the spark. This can cause rough running or failure to start. Every time you do any work on the bike: remove them disassemble and clean them and renew the wires or at least the connections.

The long Explanation, Warning engineering information can cause Drowsiness.
The ancient cylinder design of the engine dictates that the spark emanate form the center of the combustion chamber. In order to get it there, the plugs had to be located down deep in a well between the cams. This well is a perfect place for dirt and moisture to accumulate. Then because there is no cooling water at this point the metal around the plug runs very hot. Surround this with the large amount of cool metal and you have a recipe for condensation. Now K did drill a drain hole between the fins to help (a little) but it often gets plugged up.

The moisture boils off the base of the plug and the vapor condenses on the cool plastic cap and the plug insulator. This moisture forms a easier path for the electrons to ground than jumping the gap at the plug to make a spark. Misfire.
This issue is right up there with Pilot jets as a cause of trouble.

Here's some pictures that might be helpful. I took these when I replaced the wires themselves, as it was a good time for a write-up, and the wires were OEM from 1998.


Wires are just 7mm copper core, with clear silicone jacket









IMPORTANT NOTICE: make sure to use a proper screwdriver, make sure it fits, as the parts are made of brass inside the spark plug caps





Important notice: the wire must be screwed on the spark plug cap, note the screw like object inside the spark plug cap?



Important notice: be careful to not loose the ferrules on the HT leads, these keep the wire from falling out of the coil. Below is an example of ferrules on a pressure fitting, looks familiar?









Also keep in mind doing the CoPs conversation/modification, it helps eliminate the spark plug caps, HT wires, and it provides a better/stronger spark, which does allow you to open up the plug gap.

Kawasaki ZX Ignition Coil Pack/ coil over plugs (CoPs) modification.
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Old July 1st, 2016, 08:40 PM   #13
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