Headlight questions...

[FBR_BDavis]

I work 3rd shift at my job, so I will be doing a LOT of night riding when the weather finally clears up.. My area is known for a TON of wildlife, most notably deer.. With that in mind, I have a few questions that I'm looking to get answered or at least get opinions on..

1. Is there a way to alter the headlights so I can have two low-beam lights on at all times, and the switch activates two hi-beam lights??

2. I've seen a lot of HID kits out there.. Some are more intricate than others, cost a ton more, etc.. So many flavors, so little cash to go around.. Has anyone heard anything about the OPT7 kits?? OPT7 HID Kit

3. If neither of the above is a plausible option, toss some advice my way.. Any specific brand of halogen bulbs recommended, etc??

I don't mind spending money if it's well spent.. That's why I work!! LOL!! At the same time, I try not to be frivolous with money.. Thanks..

[ForceofWill]

You want good lighting you're going to have to suck it up and do a proper retrofit.

www.theretrofitsource.com

There are a couple DIY's here on how to do it in the sticky. I would go with a mini D2S kit. I have those projectors in my truck and an older version of them in my bike now.

Do not buy that drop in kit, all you're going to get is glare and too much foreground. You want great light you need to put in a quality projector setup, especially if you're worried about wildlife. You need the width and distance you'll only get with doing it correctly.

[ForceofWill]

http://www.theretrofitsource.com/com...l#.VOdieclOk-4

While those projectors aren't quite as nice as the D2S it would be an easier fit and install and still give great output.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FBR_BDavis

..............

1. Is there a way to alter the headlights so I can have two low-beam lights on at all times, and the switch activates two hi-beam lights??

............

3. If neither of the above is a plausible option, toss some advice my way.. Any specific brand of halogen bulbs recommended, etc??

..........

1) Two lights at the same time is a higher load than the number of watts that our electric systems can deliver; hence, it is not sustainable for long time, even if you double the wiring and fuses to accommodate higher current.

2) This applies to the pre-gen Ninja (before 2008), but you may find the information useful:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Lights_%26_Bulbs

[cuong-nutz]

I have an H1 Hid setup if you're interested. Morimoto stuff from TRS. Shoot me a PM

[DaBlue1]

I have the Phillips MotoVision Motorcycle Bulb . Its an excellent stock replacement. Quite a few members on other forums use them. They also have great reviews in the motorcycle community.

[ZeroGravity360]

I read somewhere that you need to change the angle of the head lights to be able to safely put in HIDs is this correct?

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

I read somewhere that you need to change the angle of the head lights to be able to safely put in HIDs is this correct?

Not really.

Putting a HID bulb in your stock reflector housing results in light going all over the place where it shouldn't, because the bulb doesn't match the reflector. A lot of people aim the headlight down to compensate for this, but that results in a reduction in light in the distance and too much light up close (causing your iris to close down). This is a double-whammy against your night vision.

If you want to safely use HID headlights, you need the whole system to be designed to work together. The easiest way is a bi-xenon projector retrofit (and it's not what the average person would generally consider easy). https://www.theretrofitsource.com/co...ycle-kits.html

There are some cars starting to come with bi-LED projectors now. They're still pretty rare and expensive, but I feel they offer most of the benefits of HIDs, while eliminating a number of their issues.

[Triple Jim]

I just put a Peterson LED headlight in my 250. I think it's the same unit as the Truck Lite LED headlight. It's a great headlight, but it's hard for oncoming drivers to see in the daytime unless the beam is aimed in their eyes. My daughter was riding the 250 and I was in front of her. I had to stop and check to see that it was really turned on.

I got around the problem by making a diffuser that snaps on for daytime use. It's a 3-D printed round, flat piece that attaches over the headlight lens. We tested it today, and it gives about the same look as a standard headlight, looking like a bright circle in daylight. I'm sure it's illegal, but I'm also pretty sure no cop is going to stop us, since you really can't tell it's not a normal headlight. For night use, I'll take it off.

I guess this really means I don't recommend this type of LED headlight for applications that need it to attract attention in the daytime.

[juliusmichaelhonrada]

yes , illegal is not really illegal , here in my country even at broad daylight people in motorcycles are in high beam with hazard on , some even have blinkers , they said a small fine is better than a dead man, and cops wont really stop you when you are moving , only sometimes at high profile security checkpoints. me i use 6 led bulbs plug n play in the h4 socket

[ZeroGravity360]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Not really.

Putting a HID bulb in your stock reflector housing results in light going all over the place where it shouldn't, because the bulb doesn't match the reflector. A lot of people aim the headlight down to compensate for this, but that results in a reduction in light in the distance and too much light up close (causing your iris to close down). This is a double-whammy against your night vision.

If you want to safely use HID headlights, you need the whole system to be designed to work together. The easiest way is a bi-xenon projector retrofit (and it's not what the average person would generally consider easy). https://www.theretrofitsource.com/co...ycle-kits.html

There are some cars starting to come with bi-LED projectors now. They're still pretty rare and expensive, but I feel they offer most of the benefits of HIDs, while eliminating a number of their issues.

Not really sure why my question got marked as unhelpful lol it was just a question.
Anywho, no it doesn't look like a very simple process... Might ask a buddy of mine for advice/help. Worst case I'll take it to a shop, but I want to be able to see at night, I feel like my headlights are pretty dim for night time riding.

[CaliGrrl]

We put an LED lamp in my bike and it really wasn't hard at all, and even the focus of the beam didn't change much. We had to add the transformer to the back of it, and work with the little rubber cover on the back, since the transformer is bigger than the stock plug, but it wasn't tough.

Much better now.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

Anywho, no it doesn't look like a very simple process... Might ask a buddy of mine for advice/help. Worst case I'll take it to a shop, but I want to be able to see at night, I feel like my headlights are pretty dim for night time riding.

All HID retrofits are illegal, so you may not be able to have a shop do it for you. I'm sure there are ways to get it done, but it most likely won't be advertised at a dealership shop, for example.

It's something people should keep in mind if you have inspections in your state or tend to get pulled over a lot.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

We put an LED lamp in my bike and it really wasn't hard at all, and even the focus of the beam didn't change much. We had to add the transformer to the back of it, and work with the little rubber cover on the back, since the transformer is bigger than the stock plug, but it wasn't tough.

Much better now.

How well any drop-in bulb works will depend on how closely the new bulb mirrors the original bulb's location and output. Since LEDs are inherently directional compared to the omnidirectional light from a filament in a glass bulb, they tend to cause issues with the beam pattern. I've heard of good results with some, but it will depend on how well the specific one you picked was designed.

Another issue with LEDs is "equivalent wattage" claims. LEDs and halogens use very different amounts of power to generate the same amount of light, so you end up with "as bright as ____!!!!" claims, and it's harder to tell how much light you're actually getting from it. Look at how many lumens it puts out for a better idea of how much output you'll actually get. For comparison, an H4 puts out about 1100lm and an H7 is about 1450lm. A lot of crappy little "driving light" LEDs that will fit in a headlight only put out a few hundred lumens - those will obviously be very inferior to your stock bulb.


And finally, keep up on headlight maintenance. Bulbs do age over time, and are designed to be replaced after a while, not just when they blow. How much it affects the light has been debated, but simply dropping in a brand new copy of your current bulb may give you more light. A lot of bikes come with the headlight aimed really low, and changing the height of the bike will affect the aim too. Make sure your light is properly aimed for best results.

[Sinanju]

Use a bulb for the optics it was designed for, i.e. use a Halogen bulb for a Halogen projector or Halogen reflector housing, HID bulbs for HID projectors, etc.

In your case, you want to use an LED bulb on a reflector housing. As many have already stated, doing so will just cause the light to scatter...well, everywhere. The reason that manufacturers use projectors with HIDs and LEDs is that they produce significantly more light than Halogen bulbs. That light has to be focused on an area that is usable to the driver, meaning in front and ahead, NOT to the sides where it can blind other motorists. Projectors allow this light to be focused on the desired area.

This doesn't mean that it's "proper" to use an LED or HID bulb on Halogen projectors. There are differences between Halogen and HID projectors. First, HID projectors are more oval-shaped than Halogen projectors. HID bulbs produce more light and need to be focused differently than the Halogens. Second, HID bulbs emit UV radiation and so HID projectors are coated for UV protection. On the other hand, Halogen projectors emit IR radiation and so Halogen projectors are coated for IR protection. Using the inappropriate housing burns the housing resulting in a brown or black bowl.

I haven't seen many LED retrofits, but one thing to note is that the LEDs bulbs used in headlights produce a considerable amount of heat. Therefore, these units must be cooled properly. I've already seen LED bulbs turning brown because the manufacture skimped on providing a proper heatsink and fan to cool the unit.

These are all designed to work as a system with all the components working together to provide the optimum, usable light for the driver. If you change the technology behind it, it's best to change all the components in that system. If you do a search on a proper retrofit, you'll see that you're pretty much changing everything, save the battery. I think retailers know this, but continue to sell LEDs and HIDs to consumers without the proper warnings or education because, well...there's money to be made.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

All HID retrofits are illegal, so you may not be able to have a shop do it for you. I'm sure there are ways to get it done, but it most likely won't be advertised at a dealership shop, for example.

It's something people should keep in mind if you have inspections in your state or tend to get pulled over a lot.

I'm going to go with no....not all are illegal.

IF...you retrofit an HID housing (projector) with the HID bulb, it's legal. Technically, the HID housing is DOT approved for an HID bulb, IE the projector kits that have the proper cut off.

It's the "I'm gonna slap an HID bulb into my Halogen housing" part that's illegal and annoying. I bought an HID bulb kit for my Civic a few years ago. I put them in one afternoon, drove around that night and the glare was so obnoxious I took them out the following morning. When you're lighting up freeway signs almost directly overhead, that's bad for other drivers. Reflector on the left, projector on the right. No amount of aiming the headlight down will get rid of the glare.

[ZeroGravity360]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

I'm going to go with no....not all are illegal.

IF...you retrofit an HID housing (projector) with the HID bulb, it's legal. Technically, the HID housing is DOT approved for an HID bulb, IE the projector kits that have the proper cut off.

It's the "I'm gonna slap an HID bulb into my Halogen housing" part that's illegal and annoying. I bought an HID bulb kit for my Civic a few years ago. I put them in one afternoon, drove around that night and the glare was so obnoxious I took them out the following morning. When you're lighting up freeway signs almost directly overhead, that's bad for other drivers. Reflector on the left, projector on the right. No amount of aiming the headlight down will get rid of the glare.

What would you suggest to make my lights brighter for night driving? Maybe they are just older? Is there light bulbs i can just get that are brighter but not dangerous?

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

I'm going to go with no....not all are illegal.

IF...you retrofit an HID housing (projector) with the HID bulb, it's legal. Technically, the HID housing is DOT approved for an HID bulb, IE the projector kits that have the proper cut off.

http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html

Because replaceable light sources are, by regulation, designed to be non-interchangeable, it would not be possible for an HID headlamp conversion set to meet the standard's photometry requirements for an original equipment headlamp system using a halogen light source, so the replacement lamps could not be sold for this purpose.

That covers putting HID bulbs into halogen headlamps.

Furthermore, a headlamp dealer or motor vehicle repair business could not remove the original halogen headlamps and install HID replacement headlamps without violating 49 U.S.C. 30122. That section prohibits manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and motor vehicle repair businesses from making inoperative equipment installed in accordance with a Federal motor vehicle safety standard.

That covers businesses swapping in HID headlamp assemblies.


I agree that the real problem is the drop-in HID bulbs, and doing a good job of swapping in an approved HID headlamp should result in better lighting without annoying people. But technically, no company can legally install a HID retrofit for you.

[ForceofWill]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html

That covers putting HID bulbs into halogen headlamps.


That covers businesses swapping in HID headlamp assemblies.


I agree that the real problem is the drop-in HID bulbs, and doing a good job of swapping in an approved HID headlamp should result in better lighting without annoying people. But technically, no company can legally install a HID retrofit for you.

It's also technically illegal to have any non-dot approved LED blinkers, tail lights, airbox mods, exhaust etc etc.

Doing a proper retrofit is a huge benefit without blinding everyone else.

[choneofakind]

Any time you crack open the seal on a DOT approved headlight housing, it's illegal to use it. That particular combination of housing, lens, reflector, and bulb was tested as a single unit to get that DOT and SAE certification. Even if you do a proper retrofit to your vehicle with completely legal parts out of another production vehicle, it's still illegal *technically*. For example, most halogen projectors used in modern Toyota's can be swapped with the HID projector made by Koito that is used in the Lexus RX line of cars because the mounting pattern and projector dimensions are identical. It's a simple process of bake the headlight, remove the lens, swap projectors onto the identical mounting points, and then re-assemble. This is all parts from setups that have been tested and certified legal, yet because the original Toyota housing has been opened and modified, this is illegal. It's dumb. On the side of the road, no one would ever ask questions so long as you use DOT approved ballasts.

That said, get a proper HID projector that's been designed for HID bulb retrofitted into your headlight if you're going to run HID bulbs.

If you have a reflector in your headlight that's intended for halogen bulbs, use halogen bulbs, regardless of how good you think an aftermarket LED bulb or HID bulb is. a) there's going to be glare because the light source is different than the reflector was designed for and b) it 99% likely WILL put more light in the foreground (right in front of your front wheel) than the halogen bulb it was designed for. That type of light is harmful to your distance vision, not helpful for seeing.



All that said! There are some really kickass aftermarket HID projectors out there. Morimoto FXR projectors are great, as well as Morimoto Mini D2S 3.0 projectors. Neither are DOT certified, but the testing and process is in the works, from what I've read about them. We'll see how long that takes, but they control the HID light very well and create a great low and high beam. I currently have a set of Morimoto Mini D2S 3.0 projectors retrofitted into my car headlights (with 35W 4500k bulbs fitted to a heavy gauge relay harness) and they're fantastic on low and high beam. I have the stock halogen high beam wired to come on at the same time as the bixenon solenoid, giving me quad high beams and incredible night time distance and width. The low beams are a) aimed properly and b) nice and flat and wide and c) have the hot spot near the cutoff for good distance vision without overwhelming my foreground with tons of light. I see no need to use a 55W system.


ZG, your post was marked unhelpful because it was not helpful. That's a common bit of logic that's touted among people who want those fancy blue headlights without paying to do it properly. I promise I don't have a vendetta against you, I just want to stop the spread of misinformation. Sorry With headlights, you have to pay to play. It doesn't matter if it's high output halogen upgrades, LED bulbs, or HID. Sorry if I'm coming off like a snob right now, but after doing this on two vehicles and seeing the difference between proper projector retrofit and garbage drop-in kits, I'm pretty good in this area. Doing it right not only keeps oncoming drivers from being blinded (which can lead to crashing into you), it also gives you an actual upgrade in your headlighting, which makes night or foul weather riding/driving much easier.

FWIW, modifying turn signals/running lights is much less of a concern to me. They don't glare and/or overwhelm oncoming drivers at all because they're so much less powerful.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

What would you suggest to make my lights brighter for night driving? Maybe they are just older? Is there light bulbs i can just get that are brighter but not dangerous?

• Check your voltage at the headlight socket compared to battery voltage. The headlight gets its power through the left control switch* which gets power through the turnon-delay relay, from the fusebox, via the brown wire from the ignition switch. There are a lot of switches and connections in the circuit which can lead to voltage drop, and thus less light output. One of the EX500 guys measured over a full volt drop by the time power came out of the fusebox. Installing headlight relays will allow the stock controls/wiring to still control the lights, but the bulbs will pull their power directly from the battery via a heavy wire instead of the maze of small OEM wiring. This is an example for H4 lights (he doesn't sell H7 kits, but they would be similar).
  
• Some bulbs have their filament coils wound differently. This results in better light output from "the same bulb", but it has the downside of putting more wear on the bulb due to heat, so it won't last as long. Silverstar is probably the most well-known of these types. I have a PIAA H4 60/55W Star White 3800K XTRA, which is slightly whiter than a regular halogen (but still yellower than OEM HID) and supposed to be more durable and vibration-resistant (which I figured was good on fairly revvy parallel twin, and they were quite cheap on sale). The "long life" bulbs are the opposite of this. They're wound in a way that makes them last longer, but not light quite as well. Comparing the LL, +30, and +50 H7 bulbs here, they're rated for 930, 500, and 350 hours of life respectively.
  
  Here is a pic of the Volt's "high output" and "long life" bulbs for comparison:
  
  
• Also note that there are some "off road only" bulbs that are actually higher wattage than standard. Some just do the LED thing and claim that they're equivalent to higher wattages because they put out more light, but some will physically draw more power. These may not be the best thing to install on a small bike with limited power output like our Ninjas, and I would definitely not power them via the stock wiring. Drawing more power through the wires than they were designed for can melt the insulation and start a fire.

*On the NewGen, the low beam is always on and not run through the low/high switch at all. The switch actually just turns the high beam on and off. On the PreGen and 500 with H4 bulbs, the switch toggles between the low and high filaments of the bulb.

[choneofakind]

This is my retrofit on my car. Good lighting is worth doing right. I kept everything as subtle as possible so it looks factory to the untrained eye. Unless you're well familiar with the changes to the first generation of tC from 2005-2010, it's completely factory in appearance. That was important to me.

Headlights:
Morimoto D2S 3.0 projectors, HD relay harness, quad high beams, Morimoto 35W ballasts, morimoto 4500k bulbs. Everything here lighting related is stamped with DOT approval, except the projectors themselves.

Fog lights:
knock-off JW speaker LED fog lights. Not quite as wide or uniformly white as JW Speakers, but they have a good cut off and fog light pattern. DOT and SAE stamp for use as a fog light. Wired to turn off when the high beams are on, as this is a federal requirement. A maximum of 4 forward facing lights for illumination purposes are allowed. When my high beams are on, this is 2 low beams and 2 high beams, so I wired the fog lights to turn off. This also cuts a good chunk of the foreground lighting and adds a bunch of distance lighting, so my eyes automatically shift down the road.





Crappy cell phone pictures. I can't control the exposure, but you get the idea. I wish I could take better quality night time pictures to really show this off better. Night time driving on the high beam is really outstanding, both from a distance/width perspective and from a light color perspective.
Low beam:


low beam and fog lights:


High beam:



TL;DR do a proper bixenon retrofit, and I personally recommend only doing it to one side so you can keep the halogen high beam in addition to the bixenon high beam. The width and distance is incredible, the coloring is good for contrast and vision. It's just loads better than doing drop-in anything.

[InvisiBill]

Here's an example of putting a different type of bulb in a headlamp. This is an "LED bulb" made to fit in place of a halogen. It's in a projector housing, which are generally more tolerant of different bulbs since you have a reflector bowl and lens to focus the light, instead of our simple halogen reflectors.



Overall it's pretty good, but there are obvious issues with the pattern. The exact dimensions of the LED bulb will determine how bad the issues are. Some people have been able to pretty much fix the pattern issues just by rotating the bulb to a certain orientation. But this is photographic proof that changing one part of an engineered system can affect the output of that system.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html

That covers putting HID bulbs into halogen headlamps.


That covers businesses swapping in HID headlamp assemblies.


I agree that the real problem is the drop-in HID bulbs, and doing a good job of swapping in an approved HID headlamp should result in better lighting without annoying people. But technically, no company can legally install a HID retrofit for you.

Yeah, I guy I know started doing this as a business along side an automotive shop. I'm half tempted to tell him what he's doing is illegal but at the same time I doubt he'll listen. I know a few years ago they did a sweep of quite a few shops like that and shut them down.

Learned something today, thanks!