DIY- Changing Tires on the 250R

[Guinss]

Yea took the tire off now. Surprisingly easy with the chain. Just loosened the rear axle, took it out and pushed the tire a little forward and the chain was completely loose. Didn't touch the chain tensioner at all, don't know why I was thinking i had to.

Edit. Easy to get the chain back on also. Great DIY once again Kelly!
Bridgestone 140/70, love it!

[g21-30]

Originally Posted by kkim

The only comment I have is when putting the rear wheel back on, I could not for the life of me get the rear caliper to line up properly while juggling the tire and axle all at the same time. I must have worked on this for a good half hour before I found a solution. I couldn't believe how easy it was to assemble the rear wheel once I tried it. Instead of inserting the axle from the left side of the bike, insert it from the right side and use the axle to keep the brake caliper in place as you line up the rest of the wheel and axle properly.

Over the weekend, I changed my rear/front tires to the BT-016s (150/60/17) and (110/70/17) using this DIY. The one difference is I found a way to install the rear axle from the LEFT side, just as it comes from the factory. The secret is to place a 4"X4"X22" (why 22"? Because I had 2 of those already cut.) under the tire. I then used my harbor freight tire tool as a lever under the tire/wheel assembly to raise the tire up, while sliding the axle in from the LEFT side!

Here's the tire tool I used:



One other note, my chain guard touched the new tire, so I placed a 3/16" thick washer (actually a cantilevered brake washer off one of my grand children's bike) between the chain guard and it's mounting hole. That resulted in the chain guard clearing the tire by about 1/2".

[headshrink]

That is so simple, it is genius.

[Cuongism]

Haha, I wish you posted that a couple of weeks ago. I dremeled a notch into the chain guard.

[g21-30]

^^^Exactly what I was going to do, until I saw how much it flexed with hand pressure!

[CZroe]

I only have a socket for the axel bolt side and not the axel nut side. Does it matter which end I torque the rear axel from?

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I only have a socket for the axel bolt side and not the axel nut side. Does it matter which end I torque the rear axel from?

I've always torqued nuts, not bolts, because the bolt shank has friction loads on it that the nut does not. If you torque the bolt you could get a false reading.

This is just IMHO. I have no reference for this.

[dubojr1]

There's not a whole lot of science to this anyway. Seems that every time I torque an axle nut, it never falls on the alignment hole to insert the pin. You have to decided whether to go forward or back off a bit to align the hole. All tend to go forward.

[CZroe]

WTH am I doing wrong?! I can't get the tire back onto the rim. I get one sidewall over and it looks very much like kkim's pic with the remaining sidewall very close to the rim, but I can not for the life of me finish getting the second sidewall over. I start it and make my way around but eventually each pry I make makes an equal or larger part of the sidewall slip back out on the other end. Also, by that point, the remaining sidewall has risen inches above the rim! It's very frustrating. I've been prying and slipping and cursing and sweating all morning.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by CZroe

WTH am I doing wrong?! I can't get the tire back onto the rim. I get one sidewall over and it looks very much like kkim's pic with the remaining sidewall very close to the rim, but I can not for the life of me finish getting the second sidewall over. I start it and make my way around but eventually each pry I make makes an equal or larger part of the sidewall slip back out on the other end. Also, by that point, the remaining sidewall has risen inches above the rim! It's very frustrating. I've been prying and slipping and cursing and sweating all morning.

Front or rear?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

Front or rear?

Both. I now have this to show for it.
IMG_0044.jpg
IMG_0045.jpg
As many times as I slipped and damaged the rims (even with protectors), i guess it was only a matter of time.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Both. I now have this to show for it.
Attachment 9744
Attachment 9743
As many times as I slipped and damaged the rims (even with protectors), i guess it was only a matter of time.

Wow! That looks like it would hurt.

Do a YouTube search for "scudman" and look for his removing and mounting video. I found these helpful when I started changing my tires. I can change one now start to finish in about 5 mins. I hope your working with good tools though. Makes a ton of difference. I picked up a 3 piece tire iron set at cycle gear. Work perfect.

Don't give up. You'll get it. It sounds as if you need to keep good pressure on the sidewall closest to you with your knee's while you slowly take small bites of tire and pry it over.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

Do a YouTube search for "scudman" and look for his removing and mounting video. I found these helpful when I started changing my tires.

Wow, that's funny... I was just going to say the same exact thing. It was these videos, along with Kelly's DIY that gave me the confidence to do it.

[kkim]

CZroe,

what type of lube are you using? be sure the lube is where the edge of the tire slips over the edge of the rim when you're levering it on. Also, too much lube will actually make the job more difficult as things will slip and slide out of position too easily.

Use small bites of tire and keep your starting point levered with one tool... so in essence, you need three levers when things get difficult.

one other trick... when you get about halfway mounted, make sure the portion of the bead that's already on the rim is pushed down toward the center of the rim in that "well"/center section of the rim so it gives you a bit more wiggle room on the section you're working on.

[CZroe]

I've watched scudman and watched him again when I started having trouble ("if you're working hard, you're doing it wrong"). I weigh a lot and yet I can barely squeeze it down with all my weight, much less when I start applying some to the tire irons. I've bruised my knees with all the pressure I've applied. It seems that no matter what, it pulls my end up away from the middle when I get anywhere near the opposite side.

Well, I've damaged my rims more since the road hazard that caused all this and now my body (it will leave a scar), so I'm throwing in the towel for now. I'll practice later with my old tires and rims.

[g21-30]

Get some of this:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...%7CGRP2068____

I was able to get the first side on without tools on both the front and rear BT-016 tires. The last side is a PITA, but with knee pressure and prying. it can be done.

[headshrink]

One trick I use for mounting is to leave the new tire in the sun for a bit.... this of course softens it up a bit.

The trouble you are having is the reason I am in the process of building a tire station. It will be a happy day when I don't need to use tire levers/spoons!

[CZroe]

What are the torque values and socket sizes for the axle nuts anyway? Can we get them edited into the OP?

I think the axle nuts are 22mm front, 24mm rear.

Originally Posted by kkim

CZroe,

what type of lube are you using? ...

Very diluted dish detergent in water.

Originally Posted by g21-30

Get some of this:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...%7CGRP2068____

I was able to get the first side on without tools on both the front and rear BT-016 tires. The last side is a PITA, but with knee pressure and prying. it can be done.

Yup. I'll practice with my old rims and tires. There are no Advance Auto Parts in CA, so I'll see if they have that or something similar elsewhere.

Originally Posted by headshrink

One trick I use for mounting is to leave the new tire in the sun for a bit.... this of course softens it up a bit.

The trouble you are having is the reason I am in the process of building a tire station. It will be a happy day when I don't need to use tire levers/spoons!

Good luck!

Originally Posted by dubojr1

There's not a whole lot of science to this anyway. Seems that every time I torque an axle nut, it never falls on the alignment hole to insert the pin. You have to decided whether to go forward or back off a bit to align the hole. All tend to go forward.

Kawi sez "go forward" too:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...6&postcount=37

[g21-30]

Look for this in Napa stores in CA:



Napa locations here:

http://www.napaonline.com/Locator/Re...&ZIP=&st=STORE

[CZroe]

kkim: can you edit the OP to reflect 17mm/22mm 65 ft lb front and 17mm/24mm 72ft lb rear specs? That's also 9 kgf m front and 10 kgf m rear for you metric nuts.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by g21-30

Over the weekend, I changed my rear/front tires to the BT-016s (150/60/17) and (110/70/17) using this DIY. The one difference is I found a way to install the rear axle from the LEFT side, just as it comes from the factory. The secret is to place a 4"X4"X22" (why 22"? Because I had 2 of those already cut.) under the tire. I then used my harbor freight tire tool as a lever under the tire/wheel assembly to raise the tire up, while sliding the axle in from the LEFT side!

Here's the tire tool I used:



One other note, my chain guard touched the new tire, so I placed a 3/16" thick washer (actually a cantilevered brake washer off one of my grand children's bike) between the chain guard and it's mounting hole. That resulted in the chain guard clearing the tire by about 1/2".

I have three of those but I usd them differently. I still inserted from the right, but, when I realized that a spacer fell out and I'd have to remove the axle again, I placed all three across my Harbor Freight low-profile aluminum rear stand and it only fell a tiny little bit. Of course, it all depends on your tire's thickness, the spools, etc, but it worked well enough for me to believe I could easily insert it from the left if I had to.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by CZroe

kkim: can you edit the OP to reflect 17mm/22mm 65 ft lb front and 17mm/24mm 72ft lb rear specs? That's also 9 kgf m front and 10 kgf m rear for you metric nuts.

sorry, I can't edit the OP as Alex has things set up so people can't edit their posts after a certain amount of days.

[Alex]

All set, it's been edited.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

All set, it's been edited.

Awesome. Thanks!

[CThunder-blue]

Hey guys. I'm having a heck of a time installing the rear 150 tire on. I was able to get the front on and was using the same techniques for the rear; taking small bites while keeping pressure down on one side. It's just not working. I get to a point where I can hear the tire ripping. Any advice? I should also add I've watched youtube videos and read thru the diy. I'm also using the camel lubricant on the part that slides over the rim.

EDIT: Nevermind. I finally got it! . I had to just make sure the tire was pushed down into the well more so the other side would slip over. Yay. I can put it back together and commute with it tomorrow.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Noob

I accidently removed the wire that connects to the front brake and some brake fluid came out. I reconnected it, but when I tugged on the front brake, it wouldnt function. What happened?

You've got air in the line. Look up the procedures for bleeding it. Also, make sure you clean it up because it eats paint and most plastics.

[CThunder-blue]

BTW, I used the HF bead breaker and it worked great. Paid $25 for it. You could probably pay less if you use the 2x4 method, but then you have to cut pieces up, measure, and put it together. I had the tool out of the box and assembled in 1 minute since it comes in 2 parts. It would be nice if they drilled holes so you could mount it to something, but I can do that myself. I also picked up the wheel balancer for $50 and that worked out nicely as well. I had to adjust the bars so that they were level and sprayed some wd40 on the wheels, but well worth it. No need to jerry rig something.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

BTW, I used the HF bead breaker and it worked great. Paid $25 for it. You could probably pay less if you use the 2x4 method, but then you have to cut pieces up, measure, and put it together. I had the tool out of the box and assembled in 1 minute since it comes in 2 parts. It would be nice if they drilled holes so you could mount it to something, but I can do that myself. I also picked up the wheel balancer for $50 and that worked out nicely as well. I had to adjust the bars so that they were level and sprayed some wd40 on the wheels, but well worth it. No need to jerry rig something.

I choose to just let Cycle Gear electronically balance mine. Just easier for me and free.

[CThunder-blue]

As long as they keep their machines calibrated, that's cool.

[red]

Rear tires are always harder than fronts - stiffer. New stiff tires are always harder to put on than old clapped out tires to take off (my experience anyway). I think rear tires are 2x harder to do than fronts. IIRC, scudman's youtube vids, and most of the others, are always fronts - I wonder why.

Usually after I wrestle a front tire off and back on, paying someone (or finding a friend with a no-mar or hf changer to take a donation) to do the rear is looking pretty good. At least you save 50% of the cost of mounting a set of tires and saves many bruises. Even having a solidly mounted rim clamp to a bench makes quite a bit of difference, which I don't.

The bigger and heavier the tire, fatter the rim, the worse, or nearly impossible, it is with spoons. For me anyway. A 190 on a 6+ inch rim even takes some skill on a manual changer. Still, it is sick to see how easy it is to do normal sized tires and rims on the most basic manual no-scratch tire changer.

Every time I buy a set of tires and change the front I learn this over again the hard way Then I contribute to the local economy to mount the rear.

[kamikaze]

service manual says to use a new cotter pin on reassembly, is this necessary, or can I get away with reusing it. It's not that I'm cheap, I just don't have any here so I'd have to go pick a couple up...

[kkim]

I've reused mine before, but if it looks like it's about to break at the "bend" line, definitely replace it when you get the chance.

I try to be very careful to not overstress the cotter pin when removing it. That helps to keep it in a reusable condition, if you need to.

[kamikaze]

Originally Posted by kkim

I've reused mine before, but if it looks like it's about to break at the "bend" line, definitely replace it when you get the chance.

I try to be very careful to not overstress the cotter pin when removing it. That helps to keep it in a reusable condition, if you need to.

cool thanks.

any final words of wisdom to someone that's never had the wheels off a bike before?

[red]

Originally Posted by kamikaze

cool thanks.

any final words of wisdom to someone that's never had the wheels off a bike before?

If you're handy, it's not so bad. If you have a bike friend to help, it's much easier. The project on on what you are trying to do once they're off should probably be most of the work. Reinstalling the rear axle in from R to L is easier (opposite of OEM) unless you have a dummy dowel or something used to align from R to L that you'll drive out if you choose to put the axle back in L to R.

[kkim]

I would plan to change only one tire at a time. It's going to take longer than you expect, especially if this is your first time doing this.

plan for X amount of hours, budget for double that.

to make installing the new tires easier, heat them outside in the sun, first... the longer the better... hours, if you can plan it that way, to make them more pliable to work with when it comes time to actually install them.

double check, when you get ready to install the tire on the rim, that you have the tire orientated in the proper rotational direction. It's a bitch to completely mount the tire and then find out you've installed it backwards. Ask me how I know!!!

gl... take your time and have fun.

[red]

Don't forget tire lube and rim protectors. Might help to have three hands.

If it becomes frustrating, having a place to take them to mount if it becomes too much is a good plan B.

[kamikaze]

i'm chickening out and getting a local guy that has a no-mar tire changer to do it. he's doing them for 20/wheel which isn't too bad. I still have to get the wheels off and stuff, so I'll be doing that tonite. I'll see how he does them with the machine and see if I want to invest in one (or make one, since I can weld pretty well), looks a lot easier than doing with spoons by hand.

[kkim]

lol... I learned to do this as a poor, no money high school student. I had no options.

[kamikaze]

hey, the axle nuts are reverse thread are they? I can't get it to budge

[kkim]

Originally Posted by kamikaze

hey, the axle nuts are reverse thread are they? I can't get it to budge

no, they are regular threaded. left loosy, righty tighty.

how long is the wrench you're using?