Lithium Ion Battery ???

Jason5885 · February 9th, 2015, 04:44 AM

So after reading @pratik06 's ''Ninja San'' thread, i've been looking into Lithium Iron batteries. How many of you have them? Any problems with them? How are they in the cold? Are they pretty much plug and play? or do you need to change anything while fitting them? Does it matter which side the pos/negative terminals are on? Do you notice a difference in performance?
How many Cells do you really need for a 250?

Im seriously looking into getting one for my 2010 ninja 250 FI, but i can't find much on people who have fitted them to 250's before. The way i see it, the ninja is a front runner in its class due to its light weight, so i want to make it as light as possible, the battery weighs a LOT.

The only UK distributor i can find does the 12 Cell Version. I think that could be overkill, @pratik06 Used the 2 cell in his 300.

Somchai · February 9th, 2015, 04:57 AM

Hello Jason,

I've bought this one http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lithium-Ionen...item23335d2873

It's at least 300 grams heavier than the 4-cell ballistic and 2.6 kg lighter than stock, but I've been looking more for the same size as stock.

Jason5885 · February 9th, 2015, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somchai

Hello Jason,

I've bought this one http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lithium-Ionen...item23335d2873

It's at least 300 grams heavier than the 4-cell ballistic and 2.6 kg lighter than stock, but I've been looking more for the same size as stock.

Hi Roland. Is there a UK ebay listing? or does that require to be ordered through the .de version?

Have you noticed much of a difference with it? Any cons ?

Somchai · February 9th, 2015, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason5885

Hi Roland. Is there a UK ebay listing? or does that require to be ordered through the .de version?

Have you noticed much of a difference with it? Any cons ?

Sorry Jason, since my left hand is still not so good by now I didn't mount it and so can't say anything about, but at least it's a battery and will do its work like expected.
And about buying it, this is ebay and so it doesn't matter where. The company is shipping worldwide and so they send it to your home (shipping is 17 Euros).

pratik06 · February 9th, 2015, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason5885

So after reading @pratik06 's ''Ninja San'' thread, i've been looking into Lithium Iron batteries. How many of you have them?

The only UK distributor i can find does the 12 Cell Version. I think that could be overkill, @pratik06 Used the 2 cell in his 300.

Slight correction; mine is a 4 cell battery. I sourced if from http://www.sportbiketrackgear.com/ba...-cell-battery/... They shipped it to India. I don't see a reason why they would not ship to UK.

antiant · February 9th, 2015, 06:53 AM

I plan on getting a Shorai soon, for weight savings, electric add-on's and so forth. Heard great things anout them. Webbikeworld has a review on them.

Jason5885 · February 9th, 2015, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pratik06

Slight correction; mine is a 4 cell battery. I sourced if from http://www.sportbiketrackgear.com/ba...-cell-battery/... They shipped it to India. I don't see a reason why they would not ship to UK.

Whats the difference between the EVO 2 and EVO 3 then? is the EVO3 for colder enviroment?

In scotland the weather is quite cold. at the moment its 5 C* most days. It goes up in summer though.

subxero · February 9th, 2015, 07:52 AM

I bought one last year and have yet to install it. I wanted to get some metering devices wired in before I hooked up the battery just to keep an eye on things at first to make sure it was holding a stable charge/voltage

I never finished wiring in the meters so I haven't put the battery in yet. Maybe I can wrap that up this winter and give it a go this season.

See no point other than weight saving and in reality a few lbs isn't going to make much of a difference day to day for your typical rider.

In short, it shouldn't be hi on someone's priority list for mods

Jason5885 · February 9th, 2015, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subxero

I bought one last year and have yet to install it. I wanted to get some metering devices wired in before I hooked up the battery just to keep an eye on things at first to make sure it was holding a stable charge/voltage

I never finished wiring in the meters so I haven't put the battery in yet. Maybe I can wrap that up this winter and give it a go this season.

See no point other than weight saving and in reality a few lbs isn't going to make much of a difference day to day for your typical rider.

In short, it shouldn't be hi on someone's priority list for mods

You also don't need to charge it really or hook it up to tenders.

subxero · February 9th, 2015, 08:14 AM

^ not sure I understand what you are saying.

I am talking about the bikes charging system and what not.

Litho batteries are very voltage sensitive. If the voltage falls below or above the spec'd range they can become a hazard.

Chicagobob · February 9th, 2015, 08:20 AM

I've used a Ballistic 4-cell (lithium ferrous) for a couple of years. Saved 5lbs, compared to the stock battery, and had room in the battery box for other stuff. I also use an 8-cell Ballistic in my 650r. They work very well, and do not discharge over time. In cold weather, the one on the 650 sometimes needs to have a load (one push of the starter button) placed on it before it will crank (I guess the headlight takes care of this on the 250). It seems like it's dead, but it's just waking up, and always cranks strongly. Check their site for details about this.

subxero · February 9th, 2015, 08:46 AM

^ this

Litho batteries are the opposite (so to speak) of traditional batteries in that they build voltage as they work to start your vehicle, almost like getting stronger. So when the first shot doesn't start the bike, if you keep at it, the battery will warm up and should be able to start the bike after a few tries.

Obviously with a traditional battery when it is dead and can't start your bike, pushing the button over and over will get you nowhere.

But again like I mentioned, if for some reason the Litho battery can not start your bike and you just keep trying and trying, the battery could potentially get too warm and the voltage will go up and the battery can become dangerous.

It has been a long time since I read up on how it all works so I don't know the exact details and I might be misusing some terms here. but it gets the point across

@choneofakind You know a lot about batteries if I remember correctly, perhaps you can learn us if you don't mind?

Jason5885 · February 9th, 2015, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subxero

^ this

Litho batteries are the opposite (so to speak) of traditional batteries in that they build voltage as they work to start your vehicle, almost like getting stronger. So when the first shot doesn't start the bike, if you keep at it, the battery will warm up and should be able to start the bike after a few tries.

Obviously with a traditional battery when it is dead and can't start your bike, pushing the button over and over will get you nowhere.

But again like I mentioned, if for some reason the Litho battery can not start your bike and you just keep trying and trying, the battery could potentially get to warm and the voltage will go up and the battery can become dangerous.

It has been a long time since I read up on how it all works so I don't know the exact details and I might be misusing some terms here. but it gets the point across

@choneofakind You know a lot about batteries if I remember correctly, perhaps you can learn us if you don't mind?

Very interesting.. I'd like to know more about this.

crazymadbastard · February 9th, 2015, 09:32 AM

I bought this one from amazon, $70 cranks very well, safe to charge up to 14.8v and has an internal balancing circuit so no balancing charger needed, safe to charge up to 10amps.

I put it on the trickle for a couple hours after received it and cranked away- bike was winterized and took a long time to prime and start and no problem at all with the battery.

quarterliter · February 9th, 2015, 11:42 AM

I'm interested to see how that amazon battery will hold up. But for 70 bucks once my AGM one dies I might check one out

Brother Michigan · February 9th, 2015, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quarterliter

I'm interested to see how that amazon battery will hold up. But for 70 bucks once my AGM one dies I might check one out

The cells for any battery you might buy are made by a handful of companies; there shouldn't be a lot of variation in the electrical specification and performance of individual batteries. Most of the difference will be in packaging and amenities (e.g. an internal balance cicrcuit). Battery Tender might be selling these at a loss, banking on the fact that they might be able to bundle some accessories with the battery.

*EDIT* Here's a list of LiFePo battery cell manufacturers: http://www.lifepo4-info.com/lifepo4-...ers-directory/
Actually quite a few more than I imagined, but once you actually restrict it to the form factor and capacity required for this application, I'm sure the number is quite a bit smaller.

micoulisninja · February 9th, 2015, 01:40 PM

I use the Ballistic Evo 8-cell battery (twice Pratik's cranking power) and it has been working for 2 years on both my ZX-12R and the 250... I've used once to start up a Ducati 748 which I believe should be the hardest test for any battery...didn't have any problems but since I have it sitting for 4 months or so, (has not lost charge, starts bike easily) but I am taking it to the local dealer to get it calibrated (necessary every 2 years) to get every cell level-up with the rest...the dealer in Greece gives a 10-year warranty if doing so...
it cost a lot but it is a value for money investment...I have encountered no problems whatsoever no matter what the weather or how long I hadn't started the bike....size is smaller than stock, about 2,6kg lighter
I really like it...

Brother Michigan · February 9th, 2015, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

I am taking it to the local dealer to get it calibrated (necessary every 2 years) to get every cell level-up with the rest...

This actually shouldn't be necessary if you have a battery/charger with a balance connector or an internal balance circuit (as mentioned above), but you can't beat a ten year warranty!

choneofakind · February 9th, 2015, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subxero

@choneofakind You know a lot about batteries if I remember correctly, perhaps you can learn us if you don't mind?

Nope, not me. Sorry. Batteries are an electrical problem. If you can't fix it wih a hammer, it must be an electrical issue.

subxero · February 9th, 2015, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Nope, not me. Sorry. Batteries are an electrical problem. If you can't fix it wih a hammer, it must be an electrical issue.

did you not have a school project with electric powered vehicle

choneofakind · February 9th, 2015, 06:09 PM

Lol, that would be a HUMAN powered vehicle. It's a thing.

antiant · February 9th, 2015, 06:11 PM

Link to original page on YouTube.

February 9th, 2015, 04:44 AM	#1
Jason5885 ninjette.org member Name: Jason Location: Scotland Join Date: Nov 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawasaki Ninja 250r FI Posts: 205 Blog Entries: 1	Lithium Ion Battery ??? So after reading @pratik06 's ''Ninja San'' thread, i've been looking into Lithium Iron batteries. How many of you have them? Any problems with them? How are they in the cold? Are they pretty much plug and play? or do you need to change anything while fitting them? Does it matter which side the pos/negative terminals are on? Do you notice a difference in performance? How many Cells do you really need for a 250? Im seriously looking into getting one for my 2010 ninja 250 FI, but i can't find much on people who have fitted them to 250's before. The way i see it, the ninja is a front runner in its class due to its light weight, so i want to make it as light as possible, the battery weighs a LOT. The only UK distributor i can find does the 12 Cell Version. I think that could be overkill, @pratik06 Used the 2 cell in his 300.

February 9th, 2015, 07:52 AM	#8
subxero dirty boy Name: Joe Location: Johnstown, PA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot. MOTM - Apr '14	I bought one last year and have yet to install it. I wanted to get some metering devices wired in before I hooked up the battery just to keep an eye on things at first to make sure it was holding a stable charge/voltage I never finished wiring in the meters so I haven't put the battery in yet. Maybe I can wrap that up this winter and give it a go this season. See no point other than weight saving and in reality a few lbs isn't going to make much of a difference day to day for your typical rider. In short, it shouldn't be hi on someone's priority list for mods __________________________________________________ I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once.

February 9th, 2015, 08:14 AM	#10
subxero dirty boy Name: Joe Location: Johnstown, PA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot. MOTM - Apr '14	^ not sure I understand what you are saying. I am talking about the bikes charging system and what not. Litho batteries are very voltage sensitive. If the voltage falls below or above the spec'd range they can become a hazard. __________________________________________________ I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once.

February 9th, 2015, 08:20 AM	#11
Chicagobob ninjette.org guru Name: Bob Location: Chicago Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): '06 Ninja 250, 2018 Honda GL1800B Posts: 315	I've used a Ballistic 4-cell (lithium ferrous) for a couple of years. Saved 5lbs, compared to the stock battery, and had room in the battery box for other stuff. I also use an 8-cell Ballistic in my 650r. They work very well, and do not discharge over time. In cold weather, the one on the 650 sometimes needs to have a load (one push of the starter button) placed on it before it will crank (I guess the headlight takes care of this on the 250). It seems like it's dead, but it's just waking up, and always cranks strongly. Check their site for details about this. Last futzed with by Chicagobob; February 9th, 2015 at 02:47 PM.

February 9th, 2015, 08:46 AM	#12
subxero dirty boy Name: Joe Location: Johnstown, PA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot. MOTM - Apr '14	^ this Litho batteries are the opposite (so to speak) of traditional batteries in that they build voltage as they work to start your vehicle, almost like getting stronger. So when the first shot doesn't start the bike, if you keep at it, the battery will warm up and should be able to start the bike after a few tries. Obviously with a traditional battery when it is dead and can't start your bike, pushing the button over and over will get you nowhere. But again like I mentioned, if for some reason the Litho battery can not start your bike and you just keep trying and trying, the battery could potentially get too warm and the voltage will go up and the battery can become dangerous. It has been a long time since I read up on how it all works so I don't know the exact details and I might be misusing some terms here. but it gets the point across @choneofakind You know a lot about batteries if I remember correctly, perhaps you can learn us if you don't mind? __________________________________________________ I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once.

February 9th, 2015, 04:57 AM	#2
Somchai Freedom for Germany Location: This World Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.	Hello Jason, I've bought this one http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lithium-Ionen...item23335d2873 It's at least 300 grams heavier than the 4-cell ballistic and 2.6 kg lighter than stock, but I've been looking more for the same size as stock.

February 9th, 2015, 06:53 AM	#6
antiant antiant Name: antiant Location: Cali Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): None Posts: A lot. MOTM - Oct '14	I plan on getting a Shorai soon, for weight savings, electric add-on's and so forth. Heard great things anout them. Webbikeworld has a review on them.

February 9th, 2015, 09:32 AM	#14
crazymadbastard I'm crazy,your excuse is? Name: Winston Location: Connecticut Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250 2007 ninja Posts: A lot.	I bought this one from amazon, $70 cranks very well, safe to charge up to 14.8v and has an internal balancing circuit so no balancing charger needed, safe to charge up to 10amps. I put it on the trickle for a couple hours after received it and cranked away- bike was winterized and took a long time to prime and start and no problem at all with the battery. __________________________________________________ My Cafe Racer Build My intro post

February 9th, 2015, 11:42 AM	#15
quarterliter ninjette.org guru Name: Kevin Location: Madison Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465	I'm interested to see how that amazon battery will hold up. But for 70 bucks once my AGM one dies I might check one out

February 9th, 2015, 01:40 PM	#17
micoulisninja modaholic junkie Name: Nick Location: Athens, Greece Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ZX-12R, 2009 ninja 345cc and plenty of others in the past... Posts: 438 Blog Entries: 2	I use the Ballistic Evo 8-cell battery (twice Pratik's cranking power) and it has been working for 2 years on both my ZX-12R and the 250... I've used once to start up a Ducati 748 which I believe should be the hardest test for any battery...didn't have any problems but since I have it sitting for 4 months or so, (has not lost charge, starts bike easily) but I am taking it to the local dealer to get it calibrated (necessary every 2 years) to get every cell level-up with the rest...the dealer in Greece gives a 10-year warranty if doing so... it cost a lot but it is a value for money investment...I have encountered no problems whatsoever no matter what the weather or how long I hadn't started the bike....size is smaller than stock, about 2,6kg lighter I really like it... __________________________________________________ If noone has tried it before, I will !!!

February 9th, 2015, 06:09 PM	#21
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Lol, that would be a HUMAN powered vehicle. It's a thing.

February 9th, 2015, 06:11 PM	#22
antiant antiant Name: antiant Location: Cali Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): None Posts: A lot. MOTM - Oct '14	Link to original page on YouTube.

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