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Old May 27th, 2020, 01:27 PM   #1
astrochimp
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Carb diaphragm came apart?

Hi, just got a 2004 250ex and noticed that the carb it getting gas into the oil. The right hand carb was to blame and needed a good cleaning.
But while cleaning diaphragm, it separated. See photo.

What are my options?

THANK YOU!!!
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Old May 27th, 2020, 02:42 PM   #2
BoBO
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A new diaphragm for sure about $165 a pop unless you buy used.
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Old May 27th, 2020, 03:07 PM   #3
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It looks like the "retainer" came off of the top of the slide, and that the diaphragm is ok. Looks like you could fit it all back together and reglue (?) it. Not sure how those pieces are held together to hold the rubber, (I've never seen them apart like that) maybe snaps together?
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Old May 27th, 2020, 04:21 PM   #4
astrochimp
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yeah i suspect it's some kind of glue..
it doesn't snap together or screw.

I don't know what kind of glue would be resistant to gas and not gum up the carb. All the pieces are in great condition
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Old May 27th, 2020, 06:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrochimp View Post
yeah i suspect it's some kind of glue..
it doesn't snap together or screw.

I don't know what kind of glue would be resistant to gas and not gum up the carb. All the pieces are in great condition
Loctite stick and seal: oil and gas... thatís what you are looking for.
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Old May 28th, 2020, 07:37 AM   #6
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@ducatiman might have some ideas or be able to help.
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Old May 28th, 2020, 09:42 AM   #7
astrochimp
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do these float brass seats come out? I saw a gas leaking youtube video that shows them coming out with an O RING at the bottom of them that goes bad (not sure what bike/carb it's from). Mine don't seem to budge so wanted to find out.
see photo
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Old May 28th, 2020, 10:38 AM   #8
astrochimp
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not to cram all questions into one thread but...
probably ducatiman or somebody else will know right away.
carbs are in great condition but some previous person apparenlty lost the springs for the gas/iar mixture screws. And i'm missing one washer..I think. It looks like everything it out of the tube. Hard to see in there.

I'd like to buy this if it looks like it's for my bike.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...k_ql_qh_dp_hza


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

Last futzed with by astrochimp; May 28th, 2020 at 07:25 PM.
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Old May 29th, 2020, 05:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrochimp View Post
do these float brass seats come out? I saw a gas leaking youtube video that shows them coming out with an O RING at the bottom of them that goes bad (not sure what bike/carb it's from). Mine don't seem to budge so wanted to find out.
see photo
NO, the 250 seats are pressed from the Keihin factory. Do NOT attempt to remove as any "mistakes" will likely have consequences in function.

Some model Keihin and Mikuni do have removable seats, but does not apply to the EX250 or 500 Ninja factory supplied carbs.

Plastic to plastic permanent slide repairs can be accomplished using CA glue, btw. Careful discretion advised.
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Old May 29th, 2020, 07:44 AM   #10
astrochimp
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Thanks so much. Can't wait to get this back together

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Old May 31st, 2020, 03:47 PM   #11
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CA glue does soften plastic a bit, so it's perfect for this application.
I would recommend clamping in vice or C-clamp overnight after applying glue for alignment and maximum strength.

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Old May 31st, 2020, 06:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrochimp View Post
carbs are in great condition but some previous person apparenlty lost the springs for the gas/iar mixture screws. And i'm missing one washer..I think. It looks like everything it out of the tube. Hard to see in there.
Get replacement washer. You cannot use just O-ring and spring. The O-ring provides seal and needs to be pressed evenly by washer. Spring pushing on it will cause uneven seating and leakage.

Seal-kit is good idea, should replace float-valves anyway since rubber-tip wears out over time. Along with bowl-seals, which don't always re-seal when re-installing after cleaning.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; June 1st, 2020 at 12:24 AM.
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Old May 31st, 2020, 07:35 PM   #13
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I actually followed this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRe2suaQHug
and installed it and the bike started but it won't REV at all(you can crank the throttle and nada) and barely sits at 500rpms and then dies after a few seconds.
new float needles, jets cleaned, new air/fuel mixture screws, o rings, washer..
along with everything he did in video.

Damn i Suck

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Old June 1st, 2020, 12:28 AM   #14
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You just don't have latest info, that's OK. Note, due to regulatory changes, modern spray "carb cleaners" no longer work. They don't have chlorinated compounds such as trichloroethylene, carbon-tetrachloride, or chlorobenzene, which does actual job of cutting polyvinyl bonds in dried petrol. Nowadays, spray "carb cleaner" is just weak carrier solvents that does nothing. I used to clean off inside of sprocket covers with carb-cleaner, and it would drip out as tar-like sludge goo. Now, it drips off clear-grey having dissolved nothing.

Well, that Youtube procedure is cursory 20-25℅ of the job. You'll want to do deeper more thorough cleaning. Kinda like difference between rinsing your mouth out with water versus actually brushing it. You'll want to trace flow of petrol from tank to carb-venturi and scrub clean entire path.

First stage is petcock. From original post, you have at least 2 problems. Leaky petcock and leaky float-valves. Both have to occur in order for petrol to drip from tank into engine. Bad petcock can also limit flow in addition to leaking, so let's test petcock flow. Pull fuel-hose from carb-inlet and aim into measuring cup. Aside from initial dribble, it should not flow any petrol!. Then apply vacuum to petcock and measure flow for 30-seconds. How much did you collect? Also note if you had to continually apply vacuum to maintain flow.

Now if petcock flows enough, you will probably need to do complete restoration job on carbs. Many people in your situation have had to pull carbs 4-5x with doing ever deeper and more thorough cleaning. I recomemded you do complete restoration job. You've already pulled them once. As Dirty Harry said, "Do you feel lucky?" Do you really want to pull them another 3-4 times?

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Old June 1st, 2020, 05:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
You just don't have latest info, that's OK. Note, due to regulatory changes, modern spray "carb cleaners" no longer work. They don't have chlorinated compounds such as trichloroethylene, carbon-tetrachloride, or chlorobenzene, which does actual job of cutting polyvinyl bonds in dried petrol...............
Excellent info. I'm going to jump into this today. I also suspect that something did not come clean. I'll take photos of what I find.

THANK YOU!!!!!
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Old June 1st, 2020, 11:17 AM   #16
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Here's two issues....what happens when you Rush through a job because you want to fire the bike up.
I took my strands of wire and apparently did NOT go through the top of the idle jets. Tried to push my wire strand through and NO CHANCE. Both were clogged. Soaked them for awhile and then wire got through.
Also must have skipped poking wire through choke jets because one was clogged.

I'll see what else I missed and then reassemble
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Old June 1st, 2020, 11:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Well, that Youtube rocedure is cursory 20-25℅ of the job. You'll want to do deeper more thorough cleaning. Kinda like difference between rinsing your mouth out with water versus actually brushing it. You'll want to trace flow of petrol from tank to carb-venturi and scrub clean entire path.
As some of these bikes are now ageing 20+ years, serious attention is required to restore long term carb reliability...much more than only the bare basics shown in this vid. My REFURB service goes much beyond...*full* disassembly (thus allowing access for complete inspection and cleaning) troubleshooting, (various) machine clean, setup, wet testing, all new consumables.

Oh please...reusing orings? Failure to split, fully disassemble? Failing to inspect integrity of vac hose/connections between bodies? Declining to remove starter system (choke) plungers? (thus failing to clean the entire starter system pathway)

Once you've taken the time and effort to get them off, do the WHOLE job. Eliminate the frustrating, bitchy repetitive carb pulls. Sometimes you get lucky, but sometimes not.
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Old June 1st, 2020, 03:33 PM   #18
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Doesn't even have to be 20-yrs old! Just sitting for 4-6 months appears to be all that's needed to clog carbs with modern petrol! Might as well do full job 1st time around. Or else you're going to be pulling those carbs again... and again....

Or send them to ducatiman for expert service and fast turnaround! Takes less time than spending over a week scrubbing these things endlessly!
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Old June 5th, 2020, 01:08 PM   #19
astrochimp
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yeah my idle jets are being a real pain. Did a thorough gas tank cleaning and trying a soak and wire cleaning of the jets. Might end up just ordering new ones. A strand from 20 gauge stranded wire was hanging up at the top of one of the jets. Not sure what's going on up there.
I kinda would love a NEW pair so i can feel the difference in the hole size compared to what I have now.

EDIT: screw it, I'm getting new pilot/idle jets. Anybody point to me a place to buy them?

THANKS

Last futzed with by astrochimp; June 5th, 2020 at 03:02 PM.
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