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Old December 12th, 2016, 02:06 PM   #1
Misti
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What impresses you?

What impresses you about other riders? Is is their smoothness? Straight up speed? Ability to back it in or slide or drift? Ability to learn tracks quickly or ride fast anywhere? Think of a rider you admire and explain what exactly it is that impresses you the most, and why?
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Old December 12th, 2016, 03:29 PM   #2
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Smoothness, safety, situational awareness. Things I'm working on.
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Old December 12th, 2016, 03:48 PM   #3
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A very smooth, fast rider that on a track; can swivel their head 180 degrees, point at a following rider or convey a message, while dragging their knee at the same time as the rider behind has never turned a corner so fast in their life!
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Old December 12th, 2016, 03:50 PM   #4
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Right CaliGrrl, those are the big ones.
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Old December 12th, 2016, 05:00 PM   #5
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Old December 12th, 2016, 05:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misti View Post
What impresses you about other riders? Is is their smoothness? Straight up speed? Ability to back it in or slide or drift? Ability to learn tracks quickly or ride fast anywhere? Think of a rider you admire and explain what exactly it is that impresses you the most, and why?
Someone who can do any of those things and stay modest but not to modest. Someone who has a large heart and willing to help others learn.
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Old December 12th, 2016, 05:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misti View Post
What impresses you about other riders? Is is their smoothness? Straight up speed? Ability to back it in or slide or drift? Ability to learn tracks quickly or ride fast anywhere? Think of a rider you admire and explain what exactly it is that impresses you the most, and why?
All the above and smile while doing it! Did I get it right Val?
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Old December 12th, 2016, 05:37 PM   #8
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Feel.

I'm most impressed by riders who can understand what the chassis and tires are communicating before exceeding the limit. I think everyone can learn to be smooth up through where the tires stick. It's trying to learn how to interpret what the bike is doing, and understanding that for when the pace increases that is most impressive to me.
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Old December 12th, 2016, 08:10 PM   #9
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People that comeback from injury. Getting past pain ,fear and physical issues to achieve there goals and dreams.
From Greg Lemon who was shot with a shotgun and won the tour De France.
My friends in land speed that go down and get back up. Recently a friend went down at 225 she lost her leg and broke just about every bone in her body. She laughs that she did not chip her nails. So it's all good.
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Old December 12th, 2016, 09:39 PM   #10
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old chap, some tooth are missing, white hair, wrinkles everywhere, but damn super fast on a bike, especially around twists and corners... You will know that this kind of riders really have VAST experience!
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Old December 12th, 2016, 10:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu_Mishary View Post
old chap, some tooth are missing, white hair, wrinkles everywhere, but damn super fast on a bike, especially around twists and corners... You will know that this kind of riders really have VAST experience!
No need for the missing teeth !!!
The white hair and wrinkles are more than sufficient.



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Old December 12th, 2016, 11:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
No need for the missing teeth !!!
The white hair and wrinkles are more than sufficient.



Are we talking "selfie" here, Hernan?
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Old December 13th, 2016, 12:12 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
No need for the missing teeth !!!
The white hair and wrinkles are more than sufficient.



Met one before. Can't help myself giggling when seeing that fella stuck a cigarette between his teeth. He smiled when saw me giggling.
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Old December 13th, 2016, 08:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOWn60 View Post
A very smooth, fast rider that on a track; can swivel their head 180 degrees, point at a following rider or convey a message, while dragging their knee at the same time as the rider behind has never turned a corner so fast in their life!
Reminded me of this shot of Ruben Xaus -



Impressive for sure.
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Old December 13th, 2016, 08:29 AM   #15
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The Dunlop family.

They've given all to racing in many ways. They have paid the highest price and still won't give up. Joey was the best known, but Robert was amazing in that he was able to come back from serious injuries to compete - and win - again. Sheer determination and fearlessness.

The movie "Road" tells their story.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5492592.html

Trailer -

Link to original page on YouTube.

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EDIT: Just found out another reason that Robert was so amazing - we share the same birthday (though he was 3 yrs older).

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Old December 13th, 2016, 08:30 AM   #16
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Ruben's left knee puck is getting a little thin.
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Old December 13th, 2016, 11:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Reminded me of this shot of Ruben Xaus -



Impressive for sure.
Moments before the high side! Lol!
We used that picture (photoshopped into a B&W silhouette) on a poster for our local Supermoto club a few years ago! An amazing photo & display of skills! I've never been able to get anywhere near that position despite many, many attempts! Too many SR's kick in (or I crash! Lol!) way before I'm near!
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Old December 13th, 2016, 12:25 PM   #18
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This depends on the type of rider and type of riding

when I am racing:
I am impressed by those at the front of the pack that I aspire to beat. People like O'Hare and Paasch who impress me for different reasons.
O'Hare has a indestructible confidence on two wheels that no matter what he does on the bike he can control it leading him to charge into corners in ways I can't imagine while still holding pace. I admire his ability to ride anywhere on the track and maintain pace (he's passed me on the inside of T3 NJMP with the back clean out like he was riding a dirt bike and I still have no understanding how he stayed on the track to make the chicane)
Paasch impresses me with his ability to be incredibly calm and collected at extreme pace, his bike never looks out of sorts and when he's behind you the pressure is insane. He shows a wheel in almost every corner waiting for you to make a mistake and let him through. It feels as though you are being hunted, in fear that every corner he's going to try to slip through. No one else has the ability to disrupt my thought processes from behind like he can.

When I'm coaching:
smooth inputs, good eager attitude, clean passing, and the ability to immediately take knowledge and put it into practice is how you impress me.

I recently got into flat track racing so I'll post this one up too:
There are three things that impress me with other flat track racers. One is the ability to stay up when bumped at the apex, the other is the ability to smoothly control the rear brake. The third is the completely insane mentality I see in many flat trackers, sort of a "**** it" mentality where they'll crash 20-30 times in practice to find an extra tenth on the slick surfaces and get back up immediately to do it again in the next corner.
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Old December 13th, 2016, 10:24 PM   #19
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Old December 14th, 2016, 07:52 AM   #20
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Rhythm, mind control through total concentration, lap after lap.
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Old December 14th, 2016, 07:59 PM   #21
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Old December 14th, 2016, 08:22 PM   #22
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Substance over form. People who are crazy skilled but don't make a big deal of it or show off.

You know, the guy who just smiles quietly and gets about his business.
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Old December 18th, 2016, 08:50 PM   #23
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Old December 20th, 2016, 09:22 AM   #24
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Anybody who can make a 90 degree left hand turn (or right hand for the people who drive on the right hand side of the road)

I panic and have to slow to a bloody crawl, something about the turn throws me off. All other turns, even U-turns, aren't a problem
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Old December 20th, 2016, 10:08 AM   #25
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Pete, it must be a psychological thing, rather than skill. I love right turns. There are a few around here that are good for knee dragging practice, with no curbs, no traffic, no sand, etc.. Maybe find one like that somewhere and use it for practice.

Now in the city, with traffic, curbs, and sand, you have to be pretty cautious!
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Old December 20th, 2016, 10:14 AM   #26
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Pete, it must be a psychological thing, rather than skill. I love right turns. There are a few around here that are good for knee dragging practice, with no curbs, no traffic, no sand, etc.. Maybe find one like that somewhere and use it for practice.
I know it's psychological, but for now it's a barrier. I think it has something to do with it being my dominant side, and not wanting to put it close to harm (ie the ground)

I'm lucky to have extremely quiet back streets with no street parking to practice on, and a shopping centre with a nice car park down the road
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Old December 20th, 2016, 10:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
No need for the missing teeth !!!
The white hair and wrinkles are more than sufficient.



Yes!!!! ^^^ Missing teeth and wrinkles are a requirement of extreme skill. When an vet rider can school your arse on his/her gold wing with a passenger, you know you have meet a rider that can impress you.

Although, it will be up to you to pick their brains as they most likely will not say much.
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Old December 20th, 2016, 01:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Yes!!!! ^^^ Missing teeth and wrinkles are a requirement of extreme skill. When an vet rider can school your arse on his/her gold wing with a passenger, you know you have meet a rider that can impress you.

Although, it will be up to you to pick their brains as they most likely will not say much.
Right.

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Old December 20th, 2016, 01:58 PM   #29
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A couple more riders that impress me -

Nicky Hayden -



Rex Beauchamp -



Plenty of other Bad Ass flat trackers too, like Kenny Roberts, Jay Springsteen, etc... Pretty much anyone that tosses the bike sideways to slow down for a corner instead of using the brakes.
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Old December 20th, 2016, 02:08 PM   #30
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Motorcops.

Watching the really good riders in perfect sync with their huge police cruisers; dancing around cones so smoothly that you can imagine they are floating along the course, making seemingly impossibly tight turns, and creeping along at speeds so slow that it almost defies gravity. Then watching their best rider do the same thing on a wide variety of bikes, both that he has ridden before (ie the department's dirt bike) and brand new to him (ie a student's who claimed his bike wasn't capable of doing the course).

I keep hoping that the local motor units would offer more classes to us civilians. Only managed to take one and really want more.
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Old December 20th, 2016, 11:37 PM   #31
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I keep hoping that the local motor units would offer more classes to us civilians. Only managed to take one and really want more.
If you ever find yourself in the Bay Area, see if you can sign up for the Alameda County Sheriff's civilian courses. Great training with rental KZ1000s. Figure 8s on inclines with minimal margin, etc. I think everyone dumped the bike at least once when I took it years ago.

"Basic"
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Old December 21st, 2016, 07:52 AM   #32
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Old January 5th, 2017, 12:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOWn60 View Post
A very smooth, fast rider that on a track; can swivel their head 180 degrees, point at a following rider or convey a message, while dragging their knee at the same time as the rider behind has never turned a corner so fast in their life!
Don't know anyone who can do that (oh......wait......)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikrazy View Post
Feel.

I'm most impressed by riders who can understand what the chassis and tires are communicating before exceeding the limit. I think everyone can learn to be smooth up through where the tires stick. It's trying to learn how to interpret what the bike is doing, and understanding that for when the pace increases that is most impressive to me.
This is a good one. I'd agree, especially with being able to communicate effectively. I always struggled with this, coming in from practice and saying things like, "the bike feels....I don't know....weird and wiggly." and the mechanics were like, "weird and wiggly? can you explain that a little bit better, lol."

Do you think that some people are just naturally better at this or is is something that can be learned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer x View Post
People that comeback from injury. Getting past pain ,fear and physical issues to achieve there goals and dreams.
From Greg Lemon who was shot with a shotgun and won the tour De France.
My friends in land speed that go down and get back up. Recently a friend went down at 225 she lost her leg and broke just about every bone in her body. She laughs that she did not chip her nails. So it's all good.
Amazing.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 11:41 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanikrazy View Post
Feel.

I'm most impressed by riders who can understand what the chassis and tires are communicating before exceeding the limit. I think everyone can learn to be smooth up through where the tires stick. It's trying to learn how to interpret what the bike is doing, and understanding that for when the pace increases that is most impressive to me.

This is a good one. I'd agree, especially with being able to communicate effectively. I always struggled with this, coming in from practice and saying things like, "the bike feels....I don't know....weird and wiggly." and the mechanics were like, "weird and wiggly? can you explain that a little bit better, lol."

Do you think that some people are just naturally better at this or is is something that can be learned?
I think everyone can learn it up to a degree, but there will be some people who either learn faster or can feel differences to a finer degree.

With enough practice time, I think most people can be trained to feel the differences from gripping to the beginnings of the bike getting loose. However, I don't think everyone can get to the level of Lauda or Stoner in terms of feel even if they had unlimited resources.
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Old January 8th, 2017, 10:03 AM   #35
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With enough practice time, I think most people can be trained to feel the differences from gripping to the beginnings of the bike getting loose. However, I don't think everyone can get to the level of Lauda or Stoner in terms of feel even if they had unlimited resources.
Most faster riders (on a track) ride a little past gripping and are just controlling the slide.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 08:42 PM   #36
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Most faster riders (on a track) ride a little past gripping and are just controlling the slide.
To add on, I think most people can get to that point with practice.

This topic reminds me of an older Keith Code article on tires and "squirm/feel."
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=877
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Old January 25th, 2017, 09:59 PM   #37
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To add on, I think most people can get to that point with practice.

This topic reminds me of an older Keith Code article on tires and "squirm/feel."
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=877
This is my favourite part from Keith Code's article linked above, " Technical Skills

Having good technical skills is the only sane route to mastering the bands of traction and reading their signs. In other words, without a firm grounding in basics, it’s easy for riders to misidentify what they think is a loss of traction when it isn’t or because of poor technique they may skip a band or two and get themselves into trouble."

The paragraph above kind of fits in with what you said about getting there via practice.

Just saying "practice" to me doesn't cut it though. There has to be more to it than just "practice." What do you do when you practice? Is it just seat time, track days, riding around doing the same things you've been doing all along? Is it reading books, talking to people, doing drills, getting instruction?
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Old January 26th, 2017, 10:18 AM   #38
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Having good technical skills is the only sane route to mastering the bands of traction and reading their signs. In other words, without a firm grounding in basics, it’s easy for riders to misidentify what they think is a loss of traction when it isn’t or because of poor technique they may skip a band or two and get themselves into trouble."

Just saying "practice" to me doesn't cut it though. There has to be more to it than just "practice." What do you do when you practice? Is it just seat time, track days, riding around doing the same things you've been doing all along? Is it reading books, talking to people, doing drills, getting instruction?
This made me think about a trait of the students that I see advancing quicker than the average

Many intermediate riders looking to go to advanced and be able to ride advanced pace ask for tricks to be faster, while many such tricks and techniques do exist their focus on the quick and easy way of gaining pace tends to hinder them. Meanwhile the students who realize that the fundamentals are the key to everything are the ones that impress me at that level. The discipline and willingness to work hard to improve the right way is impressive in itself.
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Old January 26th, 2017, 10:13 PM   #39
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Having good technical skills is the only sane route to mastering the bands of traction and reading their signs. In other words, without a firm grounding in basics, it’s easy for riders to misidentify what they think is a loss of traction when it isn’t or because of poor technique they may skip a band or two and get themselves into trouble."

Just saying "practice" to me doesn't cut it though. There has to be more to it than just "practice." What do you do when you practice? Is it just seat time, track days, riding around doing the same things you've been doing all along? Is it reading books, talking to people, doing drills, getting instruction?
Misti, I'm open to thoughts you might have in terms of a training plan.

Maybe it's the engineering background in me, but I like adjusting one variable at a time so I usually go out on track with one specific item to focus on. My main goal is to focus piece meal on items that affect my contact with the bike and ability to learn "feel."

My 2016 was primarily focused on unintentional rider inputs and body position. To that end, I did trackdays and spent two days at CSS focusing on my feet positioning and lower body to tank interfacing (huge thanks to Dylan and Jon!). By finally getting those items into shape, I could eliminate variability and uncertainty in my bike interfacing.

The next physical training goal I have for 2017 to eliminate variability is to improve my hook turn. I'm still higher up than I want, and I think I'm subconsciously still keeping pressure on the bars. By focusing on the hook turn, I'm hoping I can be super loose on the bars to feel what the front end might be trying to tell me.

On top of this, I have been focused on trying to learn feel from the rear tire first. One thing I was working on was trying to get to wide open throttle sooner. Hopefully in conjunction having a body position that can accept feedback from the bike, I'm hoping I can learn to "feel" the rear. I also did two days at Cornerspin with dirtbikes to work on feel. Ideally, I would get more time on dirtbikes to get a better feel for slippage.

If I can get that down, then I would try to move to learning how to feel the front.

______

In terms of implementation, specific individual session goals might be:
-Get on the gas harder out of a small sequence of corners harder and note when I get to wide open. Try to push it a bit earlier each lap.
-Focus on and evaluate upper body in the left hand sweeper (e.g. T5 at NCBike).

I also almost always run a front camera and a tail camera checking body position. I'll watch the videos and evaluate how it looks through certain sections to see where I can be more aggressive on the throttle.

So... basically, that's how I approach trackdays...
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Old January 31st, 2017, 11:27 AM   #40
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This made me think about a trait of the students that I see advancing quicker than the average

Many intermediate riders looking to go to advanced and be able to ride advanced pace ask for tricks to be faster, while many such tricks and techniques do exist their focus on the quick and easy way of gaining pace tends to hinder them. Meanwhile the students who realize that the fundamentals are the key to everything are the ones that impress me at that level. The discipline and willingness to work hard to improve the right way is impressive in itself.
AMAZING. Couldn't have said it any better!

I was that new racer that wanted all the tricks and tips to get fast quick. I'm like that in regular life as well, I don't want to wait in line or take the stairs one at a time, I want to skip three on the way up to the top. However, I realized in racing motorcycles that the fundamentals are what will get you to the top the quickest. Only by following a steady mastery of the basics can you build on your skills and get fast quick. I took level 1-2 at CSS at Laguna Seca (at the same time as trying out for the coach position). It was the first time anyone had ever shown me how to actually STEER a motorcycle. That was a huge step in itself. Then I worked on throttle control (I HAD NO IDEA) then lines, vision....I took level3-4 and became a coach.

Each time I go out on track with students I work on someone of my own riding, I practice what they are working on, I try to get on the gas sooner, I find more reference points.....I'm always learning.

When I started racing AMA Keith Code MADE me draw the race track, write down my reference points, take notes!!! I hated doing it but it was the only way I was able to learn the new tracks fast enough to get up to speed. Think about it...showing up at Daytona and having never turned a wheel on that track and having only one day to learn it before qualifying at AMA times. I drew the track, compared split times with overall times, got coached on the phone by Keith himself, did the drills directly from the CSS curriculum....everything was one small step at a time. Each session got me a little bit faster, more improvement. Sometimes I was simply working on advancing my basic throttle controls so that I was getting to WFO a little bit sooner. Seriously, I HATE step by step fundamentals but they really work LOVE IT!!!
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