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Old June 26th, 2019, 07:13 AM   #1
1Sportscargrl
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Problems with older bikes that haven’t been ridden?

I asked a question about buying a bike with 5000 miles or more but what about motorcycles that are 10 years old and only have 1000 miles. Those bikes sat for a long time, without being ridden. What types if problems could you encounter with something like that?
I’m referring to any motorcycle like this, not just a Ninja.
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Old June 26th, 2019, 09:18 AM   #2
ducatiman
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generally- fuel related stuff is the obvious, affecting the entire fuel system

If carbed? plugged up circuits...think instant carb service if 10 years or older and sitting dormant
If injected...clean/verify fuel pump, filters clear and operational
fuel tank rusty? (any bike)
petcock failures?
hard, brittle fuel lines (carb or injected)
some engine service checks required, spark plugs, caps, wires

dead (or near) batteries that fail to hold charge is common...figure on immediate replace if seller has not done already (ask to see dated receipt)

tires- check date code...immediate replace at 5 year old regardless of tread depth...this a major expense $$$

rotted foam type air filters (if so equipped) inspect immediately


Beware of bikes stored outdoors for extended periods...uncovered will create (in addition to all above) electrical terminal corrosion. Everything electrical could be affected...fuseboxes, junction, ignitors, etc etc. Avoid the "leaning outside, uncovered, out back of the garage" for months/years like the plague.

Older, disused bikes may require different levels of repair, some easy, some not so. Ask owner for any pertinent paper service records/receipts from dealers. I'd advise to immediately dismiss any bike that has evidence of being dropped.

Post up specific examples, if you like, with pic, year, mileage, the attached "story" (there's always a story) how long it sat and under what conditions is important. Of course, you're gonna hear "it ran great right before I put it away"
from every owner of every freakin one you look at. Go by actual current conditions...not attached verbiage from seller....usually bs, meaningless after periods of disuse. You'll hear "I put it away a year ago" ...but may be many more.

Gtg...good luck with it. Fun looking/shopping, somewhat an education in itself. And be careful what you may buy, evaluate needs carefully...and use as leverage those needs as bargaining tools in lowering asking price.
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Old June 26th, 2019, 09:27 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
Post up specific examples, if you like, with pic, year, mileage, the attached "story" (there's always a story) how long it sat and under what conditions is important
The famous line, "Ran when parked."

When you see "Been in storage for a couple years" it means at least ten years in a damp garage.

When you see "Just needs a XXXX and that's only $15 and it'll be running great." tell the seller to get the $15 part, and when it's running great you'll give him $15 extra to pay him back.
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Old June 26th, 2019, 10:38 AM   #4
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yup, gotta wade through the BS...and they'll be a ton

be tough, be inquisitive, be very selective

DON'T cave to the first bike you see (unless a Vincent Black Shadow, Lightning or somesuch, and thats very unlikely)
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Old July 1st, 2019, 05:04 PM   #5
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Elle, looked at any bikes lately?

I prefer to look at chain when inspecting bikes as proxy-indicator of overall maintenance. Very likely that if chain is cleaned and oiled, other maintenance has also been done. While there are numbers of probable issues with older bikes, they're not all equally likely to be problems. Take a look at this FAQ to see various maintenance items that needs to be done. https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Ninja250_Howto

Most items, when accomplished, will be fine for years. But by far most likely issues you'll encountre with bike, even if it's your own and has been sitting 3-4 months over winter, are carb issues. I bought my 2008 with 3500-miles in 2016. Owner claims he dropped it in parking-lot, got scared and parked it for two-years to give to his son when he turned 16. Well, kid wanted Camaro instead when he got driver's license! Damn teenagers!

So I bought it for amazing price of $700 and trailered it home. Bought new battery and sprayed some lube into key-hole (which was locked up). Cranked, and it actually started! Then died after 2-3 seconds and never started up again. Disassembling carbs revealed this:



This is worse-case scenario and you'll have to try extremely hard to find anything else this gruesome. I gave up after week of soaking and sent it off to ducatiman (Gordon) to work his magic. You can see other examples of his excellent artistry here: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226815 .

So it doesn't matter if bike's been sitting 4-months or 10-years, carbs will be gummed up. Luckily, just couple hundred-bucks for professional refurb job will restore them to perfectly brand-new factory-fresh condition. In end, all I needed was new battery and Gordon's amazing restoration on carbs and that was it! I got brand-new bike for fraction of retail cost. I've sent him carbs about once yearly and they've always come back perfect! Sure, over past couple years on this bike, I've changed oil numerous times, got new chain and tyres, etc. Just regular maintenance item.

Contrast that with Ninja 300 I just picked up for friend in Reno that wanted new track bike. Found 2013 model with just 237-miles on Craigslist that had been sitting for 6-years! Similar story, newbie rider dropped it and parked it in corner of garage. Chain was a little dry, but not too bad. I brought extra battery to jump-start it just in case. Drain petrol from tank and added 1-gallon fresh stuff. Turn key, pushed start button and.... >VRRROOOM!!!!< Turned on instantly in less than 1-sec and idled perfectly fine. Aside from cracked plastics, this was pretty much brand-new bike.

So... to alleviate most likely and most severe issues of clogged carbs, you may want to look at fuel-injected Ninja 300 models. Regardless of age or mileage, they are lots more trouble-free than carburetted bikes in long-run. Heck, in 13-years of owning my CBR600RR, all I've done is oil chain and put gas in it with occasional chain-replacement and tyres, that's all! In dead of winter in sub-freezing temperatures, it starts with single crank after pushing start-button. No hanging off choke-lever or extended warm-up times needed.

But fuel-injected bikes are newer and tend to cost more. So if you find a $500 deal on carbed bike like this: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=335024 . Just assume you'll be sending carbs to ducatiman and look at other maintenance items in your inspection. Good luck with finding your own Ninjette! It's gonna be so much fun!!!

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Old July 2nd, 2019, 06:25 AM   #6
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I'd also warn against rusted tanks....this a common "incentive" for selling bikes nowadays.

May help, may not....but a powerful flashlight should be brought when checking any "hasn't been run in awhile" bike. Or ANY bike, for that matter. Inspecting both inside and outside lower sections looking for peeling paint (a telltale for long term fuel leakage) or even active, leaking pinholes.

The bike can otherwise look ok, but a rustbucket tank can add a large expense, avoid or at least be aware of what you are purchasing.

IF a rusted tank is present, then fair to say the entire fuel system has been affected and WILL require attention, from tank right down to intake valves, including carbs or FI components, pumps, filters...the whole shebang.
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Old July 19th, 2019, 10:03 AM   #7
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Pay a professional bike mechanic to do a prepurchase inspection

I especially Ducatiman's first reply. It seems to concisely hit all the most important items.

I'd also take it to a bike shop for a prepurchase inspection. It may save you from buying a real problem bike. If they don't find big problems, it will let you know what needs to be fixed or replaced and give you some leverage in bargaining. All the tips here are still valuable, to weed out some more obvious problem bikes before spending time and money on a professional inspection.
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Old July 19th, 2019, 10:21 AM   #8
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Bikes that have been dropped

I wouldn't necessarily exclude all bikes that have signs that they've been dropped. Low cost small bikes like ours are often used by many new riders and are likely to have been dropped.

Light bikes like our Ninjettes will rarely side more than cosmetic damage if dropped from a stand still or very low speeds. Dual sports are even more robust. You do want to avoid damaged frames and suspension components. This is hard to spot under fairings, but if a bike has been in a crash (dropped at speed) if the frame is damaged the fairing was probably badly damaged and replaced. Beware unpainted fairings or fairings without the original decals for this reason. If the fairings were destroyed and removed, it's easier to look for frame damage.

If the fairings, side markers, mirrors, or bar ends are only slightly scratched, I see this as an indicator that the bike was ridden by one it many new riders who naturally dropped it at low speeds. If you are a new rider, you probably will too, and can consider this bike broken in. This bike won't depreciate so much the first time you drop it. To be cautious you can have a professional or at least a rider with some expertise examine it for signs of frame or suspension damage.
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Old July 19th, 2019, 01:21 PM   #9
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Rusted gas tanks

Rusted gas tanks can be a big problem as others have explained, but for someone who enjoys mechanical work, they can be a bargain. I was given an old Hyosung gt250 with a badly rusted gas tank for free and got it running. If it was a better bike like a Ninjette, I'd be willing to pay for it. But I would not try to start or run the bike after buying it before doing several things first.

Regarding signs of a rusted tank, peeling paint below the tank can be a sign of leaking gas, brake fluid, or coolant. Any of these can be a problem, but may not indicate a rusted tank. Gasoline can leak from petcocks, fuel pumps (on bikes that have them,) fuel lines, over filling gas tanks, or a leak in a gas tank that isn't caused by rust. I bought my Ninjette seeing peeling paint on the gas tank below one of the screw holes for securing the upper fairing. This is a common problem with early ninjettes after someone forces a bolt that was too long, too far, puncturing the gas tank right behind the welded nut or screw hole. This can often be fixed easily with a little tank or leak repair epoxy.

A another way of detecting a rusted tank is to disconnect a fuel line to drain, collect, and inspect some of the gasoline coming from the tank. If the tank is rusty and the gas in the tank is old, you can see the rust color in the drained gas. Fresh gas is clear. If the tank is rusty but was recently flushed and filled with fresh gas, the drained gas will still be clear.

If you do have a rusted tank, if the drained gas is really dirty, colored, colored or thick, or if you know that the bike has been sitting for years with fuel that was not stabilized in the tank I wouldn't try to run the engine after you buy it before doing several steps. Trying to run it can bring rust, gelled gasoline, water, and crud from the tank into your petcock, fuel lines, fuel pump, and carbs or injectors. My steps below are for a carbureted bike.
  1. Drain the float bowls of the carburetors. Try to catch whatever comes out so you can examine it in a clear container for water, rust, and other crud.
  2. Improvise a temporary external fuel tank. I use an old plastic lawn mower fuel tank. Others use funnels, glass containers, or gas cans. Use anything gasoline can't melt that you can attach fuel line to and suspend or secure above the carburetors.
  3. After you've closed the drains for the carburetor float bowls, connect your temporary external fuel tank directly to the carburetors using clean fuel line. Bypass any petcocks or fuel pumps.
  4. Put some fresh gasoline in the external fuel tank. You may add a tiny bit of fuel system cleaner. Just remember that if you put 12 ounces of gasoline in the temporary fuel tank, you don't want to use much more that a hundredth of the fuel system cleaner that you'd use in a car's 12 gallon gas tank.
  5. Securely suspend the temporary fuel tank above the carburetors. This is like an IV line in a hospital except it doesn't need to be more than a few inches higher that the carburetors.
  6. Try to start the engine, jump starting if necessary.

If you are lucky, the bike will start but will probably run rough. You can then do all the stuff needed with the carbs, tuning, oil, plugs, air filter, choke, throttle, battery etc. If the bike won't run try some basic things to check for spark and compression before concluding that the problem is the carbs. To confirm that the problem is the carbs or fuel delivery you could briefly try a tiny bit of starter fluid. Starter fluid can be dangerous to the engine though, especially when the engine is cold and not well lubricated. Do not try to keep the engine running with starter fluid or use much of it. It won't fix it help the engine. It could only help you diagnose with the cost of potentially damaging the engine. If the starter fluid helps the engine run, it just tells you that you have a problem with your carbs and need to fix them.

Running the bike more with fuel system cleaner may clean carbs that are only a little dirty. I mean carbs that have restricted flow through some internal passages or jets, but not so dirty that any passages or jets are completely obstructed. Seafoam or chemtool B12 are strong but aggressive. Techron or Gumout Regane with ptfe are safer. I like Marvel's Mystery Oil (mineral spirits and a little oil) for maintenance and prevention with carbureted engines. Try to run the engine at varying throttle levels and RPMs to use different jets and passages and get the cleaner to all passages and jets. If the bike absolutely won't run at certain throttle levels or RPMs, stop; your carbs are too dirty and need to be disassembled and manually cleaned properly.

If the engine runs, but roughly, some will even fill the carburetor bowls and passages (those that still have some flow) with concentrated cleaner by doing the following. Stop the engine, pour the gasoline out of the temporary fuel tank, and replace it with fuel system cleaner. You won't need much. A couple ounces should suffice. Restart the bike and run the engine until it stops. You can try to restart it, but it won't run well when the carburetors are full of too much cleaner and not enough gasoline, which is what you want. If you crank the engine too long after it stops running, concentrated cleaner is going into the engine which you probably don't want. Let the bike rest for a few hours or a day to let the concentrated fuel system cleaner dissolve the gel and varnish in the carburetor as well as it can. Drain all remaining fuel system cleaner from the temporary tank, fuel line, and carburetor float bowls. Try to collect and examine what drains from the carburetor float bowls. Hopefully this will start to looked clearer and cleaner. Try again to run the engine with pure fresh clean gasoline and note any change from before. If it's much better but not as good as you'd like, you can rinse, lather, and repeat. After you are done, change the oil which will be contaminated with some of those cleaning solvents.

If your engine runs just a little rough but we'll enough to ride safely, you might find that riding a few hundred miles may help a little or a lot. If course you need to repair it replace the rusted gas tank, petcock, fuel line, (fuel pump, and fuel filter) first. Riding the bike is the only way most of us can run the engine with load, most effective getting fuel and cleaners flowing through partially obstructed passages. I like to start with 4 fluid ounces of techron and one gallon of gasoline. If there's a marked improvement, as I ride more I use less techron until I'm down to a half ounce of techron and then switch to marvel mystery oil. If there's not marked improvement, back to disassembling and manually cleaning the carbs.

These methods can be easier, least costly, and less time consuming than removing and fully disassembling the carbs to clean them properly, but will never be as effective. Nowhere near as effective or safe as bringing or sending your carbs to someone experienced and skilled like Ducatiman.

Rusted gas tanks are difficult to repair effectively or costly to replace. Alot a few hundred dollars for that. You should also rebuild the petcock and replace all fuel line and clamps, replace a fuel pump if it has one, and add a good decent sized clear inline fuel filter. This should be maybe $50 and a half hour or so on a Ninjette. The gas tank and carburetors are the hard parts.

On the Hyosung I cleaned the badly rusted tank (which wasn't leaking) by shaking acid and other solvents (one at a time but together with small nuts, screws, and BBs to scrape and dislodge rust) in the rusty tank. Lots of turning and shaking and a few solvent changes later, the solvent came out clear. After rinsing it with rust arrestor, I reinstalled the tank, together with two very good clear inline fuel filters, one on each side of the fuel pump. Some will use a fuel tank liner, but they can peel or dissolve and be as bad as rust. If it was a much better bike I would have replaced the tank.

Clearly a rusted tank is a problem. If you enjoy working on bikes and the seller discounts the bike appropriately (or more) buying a bike with a rusted gas tank can be a problem.
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