My friend dropped my bike! and doesn't know why..

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by setasai

What? You dont have brinner?

They probably do, it's just pronounced and spelled differently across the pond the ninjette.org resident honorary squirrel just has no idea what it means when spelled in Amerrruhcin.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I live in America and have never heard that word...haha.

You're on the wrong side of America

[nickjpass]

I like the climate here better than the west coast. More beautiful here too nothing special about deserts, besides the fact that you have a year round riding season

Pro's and con's...pro's and con's...

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I like the climate here better than the west coast. More beautiful here too nothing special about deserts, besides the fact that you have a year round riding season

Pro's and con's...pro's and con's...

I had no idea the bay area was a desert

[setasai]

To be fair I love NY. Seasons are amazing. California isnt horrible but I get annoyed that the weather doesnt make up its mind. It's warm enough to use a mesh jacket when the sun's out but I need a heated liner at night. That's just ridiculous. Either be cold all day all month or just stay warm!

Plus... the fact that there is snow isnt going to stop me from riding... knobby tires + full heated gear =

[akima]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

ninjette.org resident honorary squirrel

[jd254]

Originally Posted by setasai

10mph is like brisk walking speed... well not really but still that is slowwwww... The bike handles very differently going that slow. Who knows what happened but since the bike ran fine after... I doubt there is anything wrong with it.

More than likedly its the combination of clutch being pulled in, super slow speed at 10mph, in a turn, and a new rider that caused this to happen.

At this point... let it go... work it out with your friend on the repairs and keep riding. Oh and before it gets shrouded in all the posts... TAKE THE MSF!!!!!!!!!!

I know how slow 10mph is... that's why when my brother taught me how to ride, one of the lesson was "ride with no throttle" and I did that for a an hour or so. Then I taught my sis the same thing. You want to call me a noob.. ok fine, but don't assume I didn't know what I was doing. I've done extra slow turns hundreds of times.

I didn't skid... I can catch a skid n not fall. I've done that at least 3 times on my motorcycle and hundreds of times on a bike.

If u want to say it was a "noobie mistake.".. fine. I'm not gunna argue. But that doesn't explain anything for me.

[jd254]

dammit... I'm such a noob. I doubled posted.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by setasai

To be fair I love NY. Seasons are amazing. California isnt horrible but I get annoyed that the weather doesnt make up its mind. It's warm enough to use a mesh jacket when the sun's out but I need a heated liner at night. That's just ridiculous. Either be cold all day all month or just stay warm!

Plus... the fact that there is snow isnt going to stop me from riding... knobby tires + full heated gear =

Good luck riding on the roads that they "clean".

[setasai]

Originally Posted by jd254

I know how slow 10mph is... that's why when my brother taught me how to ride, one of the lesson was "ride with no throttle" and I did that for a an hour or so. Then I taught my sis the same thing. You want to call me a noob.. ok fine, but don't assume I didn't know what I was doing. I've done extra slow turns hundreds of times.

I didn't skid... I can catch a skid n not fall. I've done that at least 3 times on my motorcycle and hundreds of times on a bike.

If u want to say it was a "noobie mistake.".. fine. I'm not gunna argue. But that doesn't explain anything for me.

But that's just the thing. We dont know how to explain it so all I am saying is just move on. What do you expect us to say? You say that there was no obstruction, you didnt do any sudden moves, and the bike runs fine. There is no conclusion to be drawn so move on and hope it doesnt happen again. If it does, hopefully you'll have more information on the conditions and we'll be able to provide more feedback.

FYI, skidding isnt ok. Another one of those dont do or avoid categories.

The MSF recommendation still stands. If neither you or your sister has taken it, you should. I'm not saying that your brother taught you incorrectly, I'm just saying you'll probably still benefit from the class so there is no reason not to take it just to be safe.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by setasai

But that's just the thing. We dont know how to explain it so all I am saying is just move on. What do you expect us to say? You say that there was no obstruction, you didnt do any sudden moves, and the bike runs fine. There is no conclusion to be drawn so move on and hope it doesnt happen again. If it does, hopefully you'll have more information on the conditions and we'll be able to provide more feedback.

FYI, skidding isnt ok. Another one of those dont do or avoid categories.

The MSF recommendation still stands. If neither you or your sister has taken it, you should. I'm not saying that your brother taught you incorrectly, I'm just saying you'll probably still benefit from the class so there is no reason not to take it just to be safe.

k i can accept that. I knew it would happen, but I was just tired of "you're a noob, you dropped it cuz you didn't know what you were doing" kind of answers. I wouldn't have a problem admitting to something I did. the whole thing was just so weird.

I don't skid on purpose. (those damn metal bridges are scary!) I'm just saying I handle them better than I expected when things come popping out in front of me. We're talking about cars that run stop signs and red lights, parked cars that decides to pull out without looking just as I'm passing by, car that changes lanes without looking just as I'm passing by (this one I couldn't do anything but braked and lean left. I accepted my fate and closed my eyes when his car was already half way on my lane. he saw me last sec and swerved away. eyes were closed for a good 3 secs.)

friggin Jersey City

MSF is expensive. both cris n my sis took it I think, but they did the motorcycle course thing to get their license, and during Hurricane Irene... so I think the instructors just skipped through it. I'll be ok (I'm an organ donor. so my death will be put to good use)

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by akima

Ah: if the turn was smooth, then that rules out my theory.

My second theory was that a very small alien ran up to the bike during the turn and stuck an unobtainium rod between the spokes in the front wheel

His tallywaker ?

[alex.s]

what if there was some bad gas in it and it stuttered for a second. if the rider really is new to riding that could easily begin to drop their turn... and not the best of experience might finish the job which could easily send the rider off to the front with the bike spinning clockwise on its right side

[jd254]

Originally Posted by alex.s

what if there was some bad gas in it and it stuttered for a second. if the rider really is new to riding that could easily begin to drop their turn... and not the best of experience might finish the job which could easily send the rider off to the front with the bike spinning clockwise on its right side

I was holding the clutch through the turn (which apparently I shouldn't be doing) so I dont think this theory pans out neither. there was no stutter. it was smooth. bike didnt spin neither...

[alex.s]

look dude no offense at all. i hate when people have to say this sort of thing but it sounds like you may have just been going faster than you thought and lost your rear in a turn because you didn't have any gas on to push the rear tire down. these things happen to a lot of people when they are learning how to ride, don't feel bad. (well you might want to feel bad about it being someone elses bike) a lot of people go through some denial after their first crash... intentionally forgetting one or two tiny little details that tie the entire story together. without those tiny details, instead of it being the riders fault, the rider can blame something else... the bike... some unseen condition... that beautiful girl that caught your eye... whatever it is it isn't your fault. i hit a big rock in the middle of a road with plenty of space on either side for my first crash. just accept what you've done and make it right. take motorcycling classes. read books. practice with your own bike.

also, riding a pedal bike is really nothing like riding a motorcycle... sliding to the side on a pedal bike is absolutely nothing like sliding to the side on a motorcycle

[jd254]

Originally Posted by alex.s

look dude no offense at all. i hate when people have to say this sort of thing but it sounds like you may have just been going faster than you thought and lost your rear in a turn because you didn't have any gas on to push the rear tire down. these things happen to a lot of people when they are learning how to ride, don't feel bad. (well you might want to feel bad about it being someone elses bike) a lot of people go through some denial after their first crash... intentionally forgetting one or two tiny little details that tie the entire story together. without those tiny details, instead of it being the riders fault, the rider can blame something else... the bike... some unseen condition... that beautiful girl that caught your eye... whatever it is it isn't your fault. i hit a big rock in the middle of a road with plenty of space on either side for my first crash. just accept what you've done and make it right. take motorcycling classes. read books. practice with your own bike.

also, riding a pedal bike is really nothing like riding a motorcycle... sliding to the side on a pedal bike is absolutely nothing like sliding to the side on a motorcycle

im done. I came for insight. and a few ppl made some good replies.

you want to hate the fact that I'm denying whatever you say I'm denying... fine. I dont really care. I know what I did. I know how slow I was going. I know I didn't twist the throttle. I know I held the clutch the entire time until I flew off. I know I didn't slide. I know everything was smooth, with no stutter.

I've done a lot of crazy stuff on a bike, and fell off many times. On my friend's motorcycle... a motorcycle that's not mine... I took extra care not to do anything special or crazy. I didn't even want to take a turn while leaning so I took it slow and maintained an erect position.

your response may as well said "stfu. you were speeding through the turn and jumped off the bike cuz you got scared and now you have a fake story" you said to not take offense but you're calling me a liar. how do I not take offense? how about I say "no offense" and start talking about your mother.

I'm done. I won't be replying anymore.

[alex.s]

noone is trying to be mean.

what you say you "know" conflicts with reality. thats all we are saying

[setasai]

Originally Posted by jd254

k i can accept that. I knew it would happen, but I was just tired of "you're a noob, you dropped it cuz you didn't know what you were doing" kind of answers. I wouldn't have a problem admitting to something I did. the whole thing was just so weird.

I don't skid on purpose. (those damn metal bridges are scary!) I'm just saying I handle them better than I expected when things come popping out in front of me. We're talking about cars that run stop signs and red lights, parked cars that decides to pull out without looking just as I'm passing by, car that changes lanes without looking just as I'm passing by (this one I couldn't do anything but braked and lean left. I accepted my fate and closed my eyes when his car was already half way on my lane. he saw me last sec and swerved away. eyes were closed for a good 3 secs.)

friggin Jersey City

MSF is expensive. both cris n my sis took it I think, but they did the motorcycle course thing to get their license, and during Hurricane Irene... so I think the instructors just skipped through it. I'll be ok (I'm an organ donor. so my death will be put to good use)

Fair enough. For those metal bridges, keep on the throttle, keep straight upright as possible, dont make any sudden steering movements at all until the rear tire makes it past the metal.

If you find yourself skidding, less rear brake and more front brake. Practice panic stops with the front brake until you get the hang of it without skidding. Skidding is one of those things that can turn bad REAL quick so practicing to avoid that is very important.

If you cant take the MSF, I highly recommend reading some motorcycling books. I forget the name but there are a few titles floating around that have a whole wealth of information that the MSF probably didnt even go over. You'll be able to help your brother and sister with their skills as well. Plus, it's cheap!

Statistically, intersections are #1 on the list of accidents occurring. Always scan the area for moving obstructions and when in doubt, slow down but keep the clutch engaged so you can give throttle in a split second. Lane position is also very important, be sure to keep yourself in a location that allows for the most room to swerve and avoid things. Never brake in a swerve... swerve first then brake or brake then swerve w/ throttle.

If you have any other questions, do a search and if nothing comes up go ahead and make a post. A forum is full of people, some helpful, some not so much, dont let that discourage you from posting because more than likely, you'll still learn something and that's all riding is about. Ride safe, ride happy, ride more!

Alex.s means well. He's just not a sugar coater type of responder.

[sneak78]

you both have the same bike? Exchange fairing, mirrors, blinkers, what ever.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by alex.s

noone is trying to be mean.

what you say you "know" conflicts with reality. thats all we are saying

i didn't say you were being mean. I'm just saying... its so easy for everybody to point the finger and place blame on the rider. Yes I dropped the bike. I don't know why and I would like to know why so I don't do it again. Things turn out to be inconclusive. fine. I'm just very sensitive to the "it's your fault no matter what" treatment. When I first started driving... I was rear ended at least four times when I was waiting at a red light. Do you know how many ppl offer up reasons as to why it was my fault? everybody. don't even get me started on the story when I drove a car into a wall. I have an extra convenient excuse for that one too. It's going to sound too convenient that you won't believe me and still say it was my fault. (excuse is there was oil on the road, a lot of oil, or some slippery substance, and it rained RIGHT after the incident so I cant even have proof) so... is this another story I'm making up? Was that my fault too? Everybody seem to think so. So... you go ahead and hate ppl for having "excuses." I have a lot, and they're all true, except this one. I dont have one because I dont know why.

Originally Posted by setasai

Fair enough. For those metal bridges, keep on the throttle, keep straight upright as possible, dont make any sudden steering movements at all until the rear tire makes it past the metal.

If you find yourself skidding, less rear brake and more front brake. Practice panic stops with the front brake until you get the hang of it without skidding. Skidding is one of those things that can turn bad REAL quick so practicing to avoid that is very important.

the bridge was my fault. I didn't remember to keep extra room in front of me in case the car in front of me decides to slam on his brakes.

this "less rear more front" is going to throw me off. I dont think I can control a sliding bike when all the braking is up front. I dont know how to handle that. I'm kinda afraid to practice that. and by practice.. I'm afraid of going 40 mph in a parking lot and hard braking. Swerving is easy. I'll swerve any chance I get. I only hard brake when I have no choice.

Originally Posted by sneak78

you both have the same bike? Exchange fairing, mirrors, blinkers, what ever.

sure... he can take whatever. like I said, not much damage... it's not like I'm swapping for broken parts.

he did rear end a car while driving my mustang once while driving through a monsoon!... I'm calling it even. broke my front bumper... :*-(

there was so much rain... I don't even want to say it was his fault.

[akima]

None of us can say it's your fault as we weren't there. It does seem like rider error to me, but I can't say that conclusively. From looking down the posts, I can see why you're getting defensive. It looks a bit like 10 vs 1. We all love ya really though! How could we not love a Ninjette rider!

Based on the info you've given us, I don't think we can really provide many constructive comments. I guess it's for you and your friend to settle this now.

Originally Posted by jd254

Swerving is easy. I'll swerve any chance I get.

That's a useful skill!

[jd254]

Originally Posted by akima

None of us can say it's your fault as we weren't there. It does seem like rider error to me, but I can't say that conclusively. From looking down the posts, I can see why you're getting defensive. It looks a bit like 10 vs 1. We all love ya really though! How could we not love a Ninjette rider!

Based on the info you've given us, I don't think we can really provide many constructive comments. I guess it's for you and your friend to settle this now.



That's a useful skill!

I practice swerving as I ride. I look for a spot on the floor in front of me and swerve around it. At first, I was doing a horrible job. I just couldn't go around the spot on time... turns out, I was leaning with my body to swerve. Once I started leaning with my hips, I was dodging EVERYTHING!

This is all self taught... any errors in my ways?

[setasai]

Originally Posted by jd254

I practice swerving as I ride. I look for a spot on the floor in front of me and swerve around it. At first, I was doing a horrible job. I just couldn't go around the spot on time... turns out, I was leaning with my body to swerve. Once I started leaning with my hips, I was dodging EVERYTHING!

This is all self taught... any errors in my ways?

Look up countersteering. Thinking that swerving is done with your hips is wrong.

Learning to brake with the front is VERY important to being a safe rider. The front has majority of the braking power. Some say 60% some say 80% blah blah blah... but the concensus is the front brake is what you need for hard braking. If you keep braking hard with the rear and skid... you're increasing your chances of fishtailing out of control by a HUGE amount, not to mention the probability that you wont be able to stop before hitting something.

All of this is talked about in the MSF course and in the books on riding. Here are a few books that you should look into reading and owning.

http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Mot...1045225&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-Ba...ref=pd_sim_b_6

Also if your sister and/or brother took the msf course, read through their workbook and be very familiar with it.

[akima]

Originally Posted by jd254

I practice swerving as I ride. I look for a spot on the floor in front of me and swerve around it. At first, I was doing a horrible job. I just couldn't go around the spot on time... turns out, I was leaning with my body to swerve. Once I started leaning with my hips, I was dodging EVERYTHING!

This is all self taught... any errors in my ways?

Yep. One error. To turn the bike, you don't use your torso weight or movement (hips or leaning). You counter steer. Push the right bar forward and the bike will tilt to the right and turn the bike right. Push the left bar forward and the bike will tilt to the left and turn the bike left.

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by jd254

I took extra care not to do anything special or crazy. I didn't even want to take a turn while leaning so I took it slow and maintained an erect position.

I think this sums up the X factor in the crash event.... Nerves!!! Combined with the clutch dis-engaged and throttle off is what caused it seemingly out of no where.

I can't advise on this, because I am guilty of it myself... I won't even ride someone else's bike, just because the whole time worrying about crashing, would probably end up making me crash.

[Crriiissss]

wow did I miss a lot or what lol. I blame it all on mw3 lol. anyway..

Originally Posted by setasai

Actually, thinking more about this situation. If I were you I would have insisted that my GF be the rider as opposed to her brother. At least this way she'll OWE you... and that could always be fun... can anyone say brinner? yummmmm

I didn't mind my gf riding it at all, she just felt it was in safer hands with john on it. lmao brinneeer

Originally Posted by Jono

Somebody needs to take the MSF class. They will teach you how to roll on to the throttle in a turn. Never have the clutch in on a turn. Never. That's silly. Same with a car but I am guessing you don't drive a manual or you would know this already. I am glad there is little damage and you learned a lesson. It happens. Take the MSF course!!!! You seem like a perfect candidate for it.

Yeah John! for the hundredth time lol

Originally Posted by jd254

Ill buy u dinner :-) minados?

tonight! lol

Originally Posted by sneak78

you both have the same bike? Exchange fairing, mirrors, blinkers, what ever.

the damages (from a quick inspection) is the scratch on the muffler and a couple of scratches here and there so no need to trade parts..plus I love my blue ninja

Originally Posted by jd254

MSF is expensive. both cris n my sis took it I think, but they did the motorcycle course thing to get their license, and during Hurricane Irene... so I think the instructors just skipped through it.

definitely was twice as expensive for me lol but was also worth every penny. instructors didn't skip through anything, it was just accelerated.

Originally Posted by akima

Yep. One error. To turn the bike, you don't use your torso weight or movement (hips or leaning). You counter steer. Push the right bar forward and the bike will tilt to the right and turn the bike right. Push the left bar forward and the bike will tilt to the left and turn the bike left.

I think he knows that..if not..another reason he should have taken MSF!

Anyway I'll be looking over my bike a lot more tomorrow before I go out for a ride and check if there's anything out of the ordinary. Hopefully it was just a one time incident that didn't involve any internal damages to my bike.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

I think this sums up the X factor in the crash event.... Nerves!!! Combined with the clutch dis-engaged and throttle off is what caused it seemingly out of no where.

I can't advise on this, because I am guilty of it myself... I won't even ride someone else's bike, just because the whole time worrying about crashing, would probably end up making me crash.

so you're saying I let go of the clutch and flew off the bike because I wasn't using the throttle? If I let go then that means the bike should have choked and the engine should not be running. The bike was still running before I picked it off the ground.

@Criss: I'm going to the movies tonight with my gf. wanna go ride right now while I wait for her? text me. I'm going back to the crime scene to see wth happened.

[jd254]

I'm back with new info!

that was only a 10 min ride, and 3 cars ran a redlight, one nearly took me out. that b1tch swerved to the right and went to the street parking area to avoid hitting me. the other two fumb ducks will being getting their tickets in the mail. the traffic cam def. caught both of them.

so I went back and did practiced counter steering. The response was much faster but I'm not gaining much horizontal movement. I'm moving maybe only 1 or 1.5 feet to the right or left only. If I drop my hips like I said... I can easily move 3 feet to the right or left instantly. should I practice more?

and the turning and accelerating... wtf? I'm not getting it. I'm entering the turn at the perfect speed. If I lean... I turn exactly where I want to go. If I need more speed, I simply accelerate. I did what you guys said.... I enter the turn... accelerate VERY little through the entire turn... I'm crossing the double solid lines now since I'm obviously going to fast. I need this reexplained.

So here is what happened and why I fell.

I stood there for a good 5 mins staring at the road... Trying to analyze it. Then I tilt my head a little and noticed there was a mirage effect going on. If you look at it from the top down, it looks like a perfectly normal road. If you lower yourself, you can see that after years of use, the road is depressed from the wheels of millions of cars driving over it daily. I would say that was it was depressed on both sides by a maximum of 1 inch. As I turned about 15 degrees, the front wheel probably followed the depression, causing the wheel to twist at a 45 degree angle, bike stopped, I flew, bike fell.

of course.. I did what I did on Cris's bike twice today on my bike... and nothing happened... but I do have brand spanking new tires...

[akima]

Originally Posted by jd254

I'm back with new info!

that was only a 10 min ride, and 3 cars ran a redlight, one nearly took me out. that b1tch swerved to the right and went to the street parking area to avoid hitting me. the other two fumb ducks will being getting their tickets in the mail. the traffic cam def. caught both of them.

so I went back and did practiced counter steering. The response was much faster but I'm not gaining much horizontal movement. I'm moving maybe only 1 or 1.5 feet to the right or left only. If I drop my hips like I said... I can easily move 3 feet to the right or left instantly. should I practice more?

and the turning and accelerating... wtf? I'm not getting it. I'm entering the turn at the perfect speed. If I lean... I turn exactly where I want to go. If I need more speed, I simply accelerate. I did what you guys said.... I enter the turn... accelerate VERY little through the entire turn... I'm crossing the double solid lines now since I'm obviously going to fast. I need this reexplained.

So here is what happened and why I fell.

I stood there for a good 5 mins staring at the road... Trying to analyze it. Then I tilt my head a little and noticed there was a mirage effect going on. If you look at it from the top down, it looks like a perfectly normal road. If you lower yourself, you can see that after years of use, the road is depressed from the wheels of millions of cars driving over it daily. I would say that was it was depressed on both sides by a maximum of 1 inch. As I turned about 15 degrees, the front wheel probably followed the depression, causing the wheel to twist at a 45 degree angle, bike stopped, I flew, bike fell.

of course.. I did what I did on Cris's bike twice today on my bike... and nothing happened... but I do have brand spanking new tires...

I say this with only love and cuddles ... but... you've got a lot to learn! That's not a bad thing. I was where you were when I first started riding. Not that long ago.

Ok, so brand spanking new tires... that's not a good thing!! Brand new tires are not grippy. It takes a while for them to become grippy. I suspect this guy didn't know about the nature of new tires:

Link to original page on YouTube.
(brand new bike!)

As for the shifting your hips thing: I'm imagining you moving side to side on your seat (like you see moto gp racers doing). I'm sure that will be a great thing to learn further down the line for high speed cornering, but for a new rider (like you and me), it's not necessary for our daily city riding and certainly isn't necessary for slow speed riding. Counter steering is the universally hailed method of quickly turning a bike. I really can't imagine that moving your weight side to side is quicker than counter steering. If you apply a small amount of force to the handle bar it will full-on drop the bike over to the side: it's a great feeling when you get confident with it. Learn how to do it confidently and it'll become the only way you decide to steer the bike (except maybe for very slow speed riding... like 5 mph... at that speed you'd might use your weight and steer the motorcycle like a bicycle)

Glad you figured out what likely caused your accident. Seems kinda odd to me that you went back to that same spot trying to recreate the accident with your own bike

[setasai]

Originally Posted by jd254

I'm back with new info!

that was only a 10 min ride, and 3 cars ran a redlight, one nearly took me out. that b1tch swerved to the right and went to the street parking area to avoid hitting me. the other two fumb ducks will being getting their tickets in the mail. the traffic cam def. caught both of them.

Yikes, careful. Like I said, Intersections are a biker's worst nightmare. Keep eyes peeled and expect crazy!

so I went back and did practiced counter steering. The response was much faster but I'm not gaining much horizontal movement. I'm moving maybe only 1 or 1.5 feet to the right or left only. If I drop my hips like I said... I can easily move 3 feet to the right or left instantly. should I practice more?

Yes practice more but when you countersteer, dont fight it. Also shift your weight with it. When countersteering, push more on the bars and the bike will lean more and turn sharper/faster. Keep practicing, you're doing the right thing by trying stuff out in a controlled environment.

and the turning and accelerating... wtf? I'm not getting it. I'm entering the turn at the perfect speed. If I lean... I turn exactly where I want to go. If I need more speed, I simply accelerate. I did what you guys said.... I enter the turn... accelerate VERY little through the entire turn... I'm crossing the double solid lines now since I'm obviously going to fast. I need this reexplained.

Enter the turn slower than what you would call "perfect" speed. You want to lean, shift your weight to the inside of the turn, and countersteer to allow for a nice smooth curve all while giving more throttle and accelerate out of the turn. If you accelerate and you end up crossing the double solid lines, you either need to lessen your entrance speed or more countersteering or both. Most likely both. Keep practicing! Oh and dont forget to look through the turn, not infront of the bike.

I stood there for a good 5 mins staring at the road... Trying to analyze it. Then I tilt my head a little and noticed there was a mirage effect going on. If you look at it from the top down, it looks like a perfectly normal road. If you lower yourself, you can see that after years of use, the road is depressed from the wheels of millions of cars driving over it daily. I would say that was it was depressed on both sides by a maximum of 1 inch. As I turned about 15 degrees, the front wheel probably followed the depression, causing the wheel to twist at a 45 degree angle, bike stopped, I flew, bike fell.

Good for you. It is sometimes very hard to return to the scene of an accident and re-evaluate the conditions. That dip in the road is what we call a sinkhole and in the middle of a turn it can definitely be very dangerous. Had you been on the throttle and accelerated out of the turn, the outcome may be different because the weight will be distributed towards the rear and the dip's effect on the front tire is lessened.

It's like riding over a branch or 2x4, too slow and no throttle you just enough force to stop the bike and throw you over but with some acceleration/throttle, the front wheel is lighter and will just lift right over.

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by jd254

so you're saying I let go of the clutch and flew off the bike because I wasn't using the throttle? If I let go then that means the bike should have choked and the engine should not be running. The bike was still running before I picked it off the ground.

\

I'm saying all those combined things caused the accident (nervous+slow speed+clutch dis-engaged (meaning pulled in) and not applying gas (throttle off)=crash.

I didn't say or insinuate in any way shape or form that you let the clutch out You seem to be taking people's replies defensively

When I crashed mine pre-gen, in 3rd gear and high sided, the thing was running on it's side. It took me a good 30 secs to get up and hit the kills switch, about 10mins later it seemed to run fine, minus the broke shift lever. So sounds pretty normal to me.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by akima

I say this with only love and cuddles ... but... you've got a lot to learn! That's not a bad thing. I was where you were when I first started riding. Not that long ago.

Ok, so brand spanking new tires... that's not a good thing!! Brand new tires are not grippy. It takes a while for them to become grippy.

As for the shifting your hips thing: I'm imagining you moving side to side on your seat (like you see moto gp racers doing). I'm sure that will be a great thing to learn further down the line for high speed cornering, but for a new rider (like you and me), it's not necessary for our daily city riding and certainly isn't necessary for slow speed riding. Counter steering is the universally hailed method of quickly turning a bike. I really can't imagine that moving your weight side to side is quicker than counter steering. If you apply a small amount of force to the handle bar it will full-on drop the bike over to the side: it's a great feeling when you get confident with it.

Glad you figured out what likely caused your accident. Seems kinda odd to me that you went back to that same spot trying to recreate the accident with your own bike

well I wouldn't drop my hips at low speed... I was talking high way to avoid a car that jumps into your lane. I said the counter steering was much more responsive, but I was able to shift from left to right over a larger distance with the hips. I wasn't going anywhere with the counter steering, I was moving quickly... but not far. I'll work on that.

Everybody kept saying I made a noobie mistake.. today would be the third time I drove over it and I didn't see a single thing until looked closely while I was off the bike. This was unavoidable in my book. I was simply at the wrong angle at the wrong speed. I'm not sure if accelerating through the turn would have made it worse or not.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

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I'm saying all those combined things caused the accident (nervous+slow speed+clutch dis-engaged (meaning pulled in) and not applying gas (throttle off)=crash.

I didn't say or insinuate in any way shape or form that you let the clutch out You seem to be taking people's replies defensively

When I crashed mine pre-gen, in 3rd gear and high sided, the thing was running on it's side. It took me a good 30 secs to get up and hit the kills switch, about 10mins later it seemed to run fine, minus the broke shift lever. So sounds pretty normal to me.

1. I was not nervous. I won't deny the other things. I'm actually VERY confident in my riding abilities. I only do what I know I can do
2. I didn't reply defensively to you. I did to other ppl so my tone must have transferred over. I repeated back what you wrote because I was sure I didn't understand what you said. now I know dis-engaged = pulled in
3. hmmm so that is normal... why is that? I'm assuming that since the wheel is off the ground, there's nothing pushing back... so it's like riding the clutch...?

[akima]

Originally Posted by setasai

Enter the turn slower than what you would call "perfect" speed. You want to lean, shift your weight to the inside of the turn, and countersteer to allow for a nice smooth curve all while giving more throttle and accelerate out of the turn. If you accelerate and you end up crossing the double solid lines, you either need to lessen your entrance speed or more countersteering or both. Most likely both. Keep practicing! Oh and dont forget to look through the turn, not infront of the bike.

Oh yeah. When I was saying about not shifting your weight to turn I was talking about not using your weight to turn the bike. Obviously, you want to lean in the direction of the turn, not deliberately fight it and hold your weight away from the turn.

Originally Posted by jd254

I'm not sure if accelerating through the turn would have made it worse or not.

When you're accelerating through the turn, I read that this causes the weight to be shifted to the rear wheel (you've seen people's rear suspension compress when they accelerate right?). Well, accelerating through the turn might have helped (as Alex pointed out a while back), because the front wheel wouldn't have been loaded with so much weight. I think one benefit of having a light front wheel is that if the front wheel does hit something that causes it to jolt left or right, the bike isn't so violently affected... the wheel (not having much weight on it) can more freely move where it wants to move and then restore itself to its natural position.

(more experienced people reading this... am I making sense and understanding this properly?)

[setasai]

Originally Posted by akima

(more experienced people reading this... am I making sense and understanding this properly?)

Yup! For those skeptical... ride over a 2x4 around 10-15mph and try 1) coasting with clutch disengaged, 2) clutch engaged no throttle, and 3) a jolt of throttle right before the 2x4. You'll see that weight distribution makes a huge difference.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by akima

Oh yeah. When I was saying about not shifting your weight to turn I was talking about not using your weight to turn the bike. Obviously, you want to lean in the direction of the turn, not deliberately fight it and hold your weight away from the turn.



When you're accelerating through the turn, I read that this causes the weight to be shifted to the rear wheel (you've seen people's rear suspension compress when they accelerate right?). Well, accelerating through the turn might have helped (as Alex pointed out a while back), because the front wheel wouldn't have been loaded with so much weight. I think one benefit of having a light front wheel is that if the front wheel does hit something that causes it to jolt left or right, the bike isn't so violently affected... the wheel (not having much weight on it) can more freely move where it wants to move and then restore itself to its natural position.

(more experienced people reading this... am I making sense and understanding this properly?)

1. obviously...

2. If I'm accelerating through the turn and my front wheel goes into the sink hole and curve hard right AS IM TURNING... you really think the light front will just go over and not go with the turn? yes more experienced riders... chime in.

3. side question: I'm riding really fast and I didn't see the 50 potholes in front of me that is UNAVOIDABLE to dodge. Switching lanes is not an option atm. I'm going 65mph. What I do is squeeze the clutch, stand up to let my legs absorb the boucing motion... and hold the steering wheel tight to not let it turn too far, but let it turn as needed. anything wrong with this? my brother said he accelerated out of this before and was fine. he told me I shouldn't do that but ride it through... I rode it through and got a FAT dent on my rim. ugh. A-hole driver to my left wouldn't let me switch lane. I went to the left and he accelerated up to block me. slowing down and going behind him was too tricky since it was dark and I'm sure I would have just went into the car behind him if I tried.

[akima]

Originally Posted by jd254

3. side question: I'm riding really fast and I didn't see the 50 potholes in front of me that is UNAVOIDABLE to dodge. Switching lanes is not an option atm. I'm going 65mph. What I do is squeeze the clutch, stand up to let my legs absorb the boucing motion... and hold the steering wheel tight to not let it turn too far, but let it turn as needed. anything wrong with this? my brother said he accelerated out of this before and was fine. he told me I shouldn't do that but ride it through... I rode it through and got a FAT dent on my rim. ugh.

Everything I've read has suggested that if you don't have time to break for or go around something in the road (like a piece of wood), then you have no choice but to go over it and the best way to do that is:
* accelerate as you go over the obstacle. The acceleration is to keep the back wheel loaded with weight and the front wheel light. This way it's easier for the front wheel to go up and over the obstacle.
* stay light on the bars. Don't hold them stiff. This way the front wheel can move as it needs to over the obstacle without the whole bike being violently shaken. The front wheel should then naturally come back to it's central position when it's done all it's moving.

As for whether you should stand up or sit down during it... idk. My gut instinct says to stay seated so you can use your legs to get a good grip on the bike as the bike is jolted around.

[jd254]

Originally Posted by akima

Everything I've read has suggested that if you don't have time to break for or go around something in the road (like a piece of wood), then you have no choice but to go over it and the best way to do that is:
* accelerate as you go over the obstacle. The acceleration is to keep the back wheel loaded with weight and the front wheel light. This way it's easier for the front wheel to go up and over the obstacle.
* stay light on the bars. Don't hold them stiff. This way the front wheel can move as it needs to over the obstacle without the whole bike being violently shaken. The front wheel should then naturally come back to it's central position when it's done all it's moving.

As for whether you should stand up or sit down during it... idk.

these were serious potholes... you're actually advising me to accelerate through them... ugh... THIS makes me nervous... not taking Cris's bike around the city at 20 mph.?
If you're sitting, you bounce... I bounced a whole foot off the bike before... I always stand now when I'm on Route 78... I know where all the bumps are.

[akima]

Originally Posted by jd254

these were serious potholes... you're actually advising me to accelerate through them... ugh... THIS makes me nervous... not taking Cris's bike around the city at 20 mph.?

Well... take everything I say (and anyone here says) with a pinch of salt. You've got to make up your own mind what's best. I try and base my decisions on the words of experienced riders and the general consensus among them. I also try and experiment and decide what works best by myself. Another thing I do is try to understand motorcycle physics (not on a nerdy level); motorcycles aren't magical unicorns. They behave the way they do for very specific reasons. It's pretty hard figuring out those reasons. For instance, with counter-steering, I'm certain it works, but I can't quite figure out why it works?! I know that turning the bars to the left causes the bike to tip to the right. That makes perfect sense to me. What I can't picture in my mind is why the bike actually turns to the right!

But yes: if I saw a pot hole and didn't have time to avoid it then I personally would accelerate through it to keep the rear wheel loaded. By "accelerate", I don't mean pin the throttle wide open. Just smoothly apply a small amount of acceleration: just enough that if someone was watching my bike, they'd see the rear shock compress and the front shock expand.

Originally Posted by jd254

If you're sitting, you bounce... I bounced a whole foot off the bike before... I always stand now when I'm on Route 78... I know where all the bumps are.

Well: I'm not so sure about the sitting or standing thing. I'd love to hear what other riders here had to say about that.

Anyway. It's past midnight here, so I need to sleep! Night night!

[scottsa]

I hardly post and I'm still very new myself but in my MSF, and in the reading I have done, everything recommends standing on the pegs when going over obstacles, obviously this doesn't mean standing straight up with knees locked. This allows your legs to act as shock absorbers for your body mass which means your body mass is having less of an affect on the handling of the bike.

Waits patiently for one of the vets to correct me!