Scared to pin it

[Slick_Stevo]

I'm still scared. Last season was my first ever on a street bike, I didn't get out too much. I did a few group rides with some people I met through a local forum up here, I was always in the back. By late in the season, I was fine keeping up to them in the short twisty stuff, but I was lacking confidence going fast in the long wide sweepers, the bike would feel squirmy and it felt like i was losing handling , especially on windy days.

So fast forward after a long winter, I had put on new tires andclip ons. Out I go for a good ride last friday by myself, for a good 7 hrs, it felt like a new bike. I was rolling on the throttle and keeping it rolled on through the wide sweepers. It was awesome, I felt like I had made some major improvements. Gripping with my knees, countersteering, doing all the stuff I had read about over the winter.

Saturday comes and the first group ride of the season, its supposed to be easy paced, I was psyched, there is only one other 250, a guy with a hyosung, never met him before but heard is is a pretty good rider, the rest were liter bikes and a couple zx6's.

We start off, I'm feeling pretty good I was keeping pace fairly well but still at the back. We go for about 2 hrs, awesome no problems, curvy roads averaging about 15 -20 mph over the speed limit (50mph). After lunch we get on a long straight stretch with a few big wide sweepers......I'm done, I can see them in the distance getting further and further away, wind is blowing like crazy off the farmer's fields. I'm not feeling too comfortable (doing about 80) and I'm a distant memory to them.

I think I'm gonna lay off the group rides for a while.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

I'm still scared. Last season was my first ever on a street bike, I didn't get out too much.........

Just normal.

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

......I was rolling on the throttle and keeping it rolled on through the wide sweepers. It was awesome, I felt like I had made some major improvements. Gripping with my knees, countersteering, doing all the stuff I had read about over the winter.

Excellent !!!

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

Saturday comes and the first group ride of the season, its supposed to be easy paced,.......

There is no such a thing.

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

I think I'm gonna lay off the group rides for a while.

Wise planning.

With more miles (ridden at your own pace) you will become more confident with cross winds (25 mph is about the limit, less if gusty) and with speeds above 80 mph.

[alex.s]

sounds like you are a reasonable adult. you should try a track day. there are a lot less hazards to worry about.

personally i think people should learn to ride on the track before going to the street to learn to deal with traffic

[Slick_Stevo]

Originally Posted by alex.s

sounds like you are a reasonable adult. you should try a track day. there are a lot less hazards to worry about.

personally i think people should learn to ride on the track before going to the street to learn to deal with traffic

I have registered with Lee Parks Total Control, I day course in June...and will be taking a racing school where all the instruction is done on 125's....I'm a little apprehensive about taking my own bike to the track...I'll see how confident I am after doing these courses

[Slick_Stevo]

Originally Posted by Motofool

There is no such a thing.

lol.... thanks for the kind words

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by alex.s

sounds like you are a reasonable adult. you should try a track day. there are a lot less hazards to worry about.

personally i think people should learn to ride on the track before going to the street to learn to deal with traffic

^^ this

I will add... within that group, find a few riders that don't flirt with going to jail or a hefty ticket while on a group ride. Not all group rides need to hit 80mph on the public streets. Hopefully you can find one or two riders that have their head on straight, don't feel the need to ride like a tard and enjoy "The Pace".

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Motofool

There is no such a thing.

Sure there is.... I do it almost every group ride. If you can't find it, then you haven't ridden with the "right for you" group yet.

[CC Cowboy]

Ride with the Harley guys, Let don't have to go fast to have fun.

[Slick_Stevo]

Originally Posted by csmith12

^^ this

I will add... within that group, find a few riders that don't flirt with going to jail or a hefty ticket while on a group ride. Not all group rides need to hit 80mph on the public streets. Hopefully you can find one or two riders that have their head on straight, don't feel the need to ride like a tard and enjoy "The Pace".

they are mostly on country back roads, and I think its a group mentality...first guy passes the leader and another guy follows...then the leader ends up playing catch up with them.....but I'm not too sure cause like i said....always in the back....

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

they are mostly on country back roads, and I think its a group mentality...first guy passes the leader and another guy follows...then the leader ends up playing catch up with them.....but I'm not too sure cause like i said....always in the back....

sounds like they dont know how to ride in a group very well... sounds like they are trying to race

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

and I think its a group mentality...first guy passes the leader and another guy follows...then the leader ends up playing catch up with them.....

I think your perception is pretty much spot on. And it's exactly the kinda group you want to avoid unless you accept the additional risk.

Go to that group's bike night. I am a betting man.... I would wager you will find a rider or two that share your pace and sense of riding.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I think your perception is pretty much spot on. And it's exactly the kinda group you want to avoid unless you accept the additional risk.

Go to that group's bike night. I am a betting man.... I would wager you will find a rider or two that share your pace and sense of riding.

Check for riders with handicap plates.

[alex.s]

you mean that busa that always parks in the handicapped spot? i thought that was a mental thing not a physical thing

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by csmith12

^^ this

I will add... within that group, find a few riders that don't flirt with going to jail or a hefty ticket while on a group ride. Not all group rides need to hit 80mph on the public streets. Hopefully you can find one or two riders that have their head on straight, don't feel the need to ride like a tard and enjoy "The Pace".

"The Pace"

[toddblue68]

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

I have registered with Lee Parks Total Control, I day course in June...and will be taking a racing school where all the instruction is done on 125's....I'm a little apprehensive about taking my own bike to the track...I'll see how confident I am after doing these courses

The Ninjette is a blast on the track. They only let you down relative to 600cc+ bikes when there are long straights (1000ft or so). Otherwise, you can eat other similar level riders that are on the bigger bikes in the corners.

If the guys you group ride with make you nervous, ride alone. There's a saying, "ride your own ride". If they run off, don't worry about it. Enjoy your ride. Work on sweepers at your own pace. Sounds like you may have the perfect spot in the group to see a pretty good accident.

[psych0hans]

Don't worry about not being aggressive enough on the streets, worry about being too aggressive and you seem to be a wise enough man to know that. Good luck and godspeed!

[adouglas]

You're scared to pin a Ninjette?

Imagine how I feel… I just bought a GSX-R750. I haven't even hit 8k… the bike is going Warp 4 in first gear before I get there. :thumb up:

Seriously, though… your instincts are correct. Don't bother with group rides, at least for now. They're putting the "race" mindset in your head and you don't need that.

It is not a race. You should not put yourself in a situation where you feel you need to keep up. From reading your post it's apparent to me that you're judging success by your ability to ride as fast as the other guy. That's not a good starting point.

Ride your own ride. Practice your skills every time you go out. That's at least as satisfying as going out with a group. It is to me, anyway. I love executing a corner exactly right, even if it is slower than it could be. It's not about speed. It's about precision.

I want to do the TC course myself one of these days.

I highly recommend both the book and video of Twist of the Wrist 2 by Keith Code. The writing style is more convoluted than Lee Parks (you do have his book, right?) but there's REALLY great stuff there. Just read the book and watch the video a few times to absorb it all.

[Slick_Stevo]

Originally Posted by adouglas

You're scared to pin a Ninjette?



Ride your own ride. Practice your skills every time you go out. That's at least as satisfying as going out with a group. It is to me, anyway. I love executing a corner exactly right, even if it is slower than it could be. It's not about speed. It's about precision.

I want to do the TC course myself one of these days.

I highly recommend both the book and video of Twist of the Wrist 2 by Keith Code. The writing style is more convoluted than Lee Parks (you do have his book, right?) but there's REALLY great stuff there. Just read the book and watch the video a few times to absorb it all.

Yes, I have both the book and the video...

thanks to everyone for the advice

[Malicious Logic]

I agree that it's natural. I remember those days as I'm sure a lot of us do. Some get over them faster than others. The key imo is to not outride your comfort level and like Todd said, "Ride your own ride". I ride with a pretty fast group and have teleported down a few roads at WOT but one thing I try to stress whenever a new person comes to ride with us is that they stay within their comfort zone. I think you should just ride on your own for a bit and try to hone your skills. Groups are fun but it's no fun if they leave you behind.


Edit: Just wanted to add that I have a buddy that's been riding for about as long as I have and he's still terrified of highways or anything above 55mph. The fact that you were going 80 is awesome in my book.

[Rexbo]

Find a small dirtbike and some open space. Fear of throttle on pavement should be solved.

[subxero]

To an extent i know how you feel.... i think.

I am definitely not afraid to pin it but dealing with back and forth cross winds is a B*%&$.

I fight cross winds quite frequently on my way to work on I95 and the DC Beltway here in MD. I am fine with a one directional cross wind, but you seem to get bounced around pretty good here, not sure what it is but the wind will hit you hard from one angle and you have to lean into it a bit, but then a split second later another cross wind hits you from the other direction and gives the bike a jolt.

The DC beltway here is actually pretty curvy and because of that you can get slammed by a strong wind as you are coming through one of those wide sweeping turns seemingly out of no where and traveling at 80 mph it can be a bit nerve racking, so ill just take it down to 70-75mph and it really helps. (on side note, DC beltway speed limit is 55mph...most people don't do under 70-75 when traffic is low)

The important thing is to ride these conditions at your comfort level. It is no secret the ninja250 gets tossed around in high winds, now add to that you are trying to complete a turn while the wind is blowing you in multiple directions, not the easiest thing to do and stay calm, comfortable at the same time.

Keep at it, your comfort level will improve but there will always be the instances where it is just better to back off the throttle, 10 even 5mph of your speed can make a big difference with strong wind. There is no reason to push it IMO

Obviously stay loose on the bars, tucking can help, i like 3/4 full tuck in high wind. I don't feel as stable at 100% full tuck.
don't over compensate your body position for the wind, if at all if you can help it.

On another note, you mentioned your traction felt sloppy, did you ever get to adjusting your rear preload? You might want to think about getting your front suspension tuned a bit as well be it send it out, or get preload adjusters installed on the front. I am definitely no pro on suspension and what can all be done with it but i'm sure you have some options and could make a difference if you are looking for options.

As far as group rides... yeah, it is hard to keep boys and their toys in line and it only takes one to set them all off to the races.

keep us posted

[LoneRonin]

I feel scared not being able to go faster...I don't wanna get left behind

Join the 250 guys on GTAM, it will be a lot more sedate, personally I don't ride with them because its too sedate and despite riding the same bike I don't want anyone pushing beyond their limits trying to keep up...

No point going out with the big boys if you're not comfortable wringing the poor girl's neck...

[Slick_Stevo]

Originally Posted by LoneRonin

Join the 250 guys on GTAM, it will be a lot more sedate,

I would , but I'm from north of Bowmanville (fairly new to the area as well), so its a hour and half ride to most of their meet up points. These guys are local and know the roads going north and east.

On a side note, I got to see some of the gopro footage taken from an R1 with a tank mount that day. They were doing 220 to 260 Km/hr on the stretch after lunch.

I don't feel so bad now

[eXstasy]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

"The Pace"

Never read this before, thanks for the link. It was a good read!

[Goom]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Ride with the Harley guys

As much as I hate to admit it, this is good advice. When I ride with guys here, I make sure my buddy is riding his Sporty. I hang back with him while the rest of them ride like idiots. In fact, I try to avoid riding with groups now. After one of the guys gave me and my buddy with the Harley a hard time because we had the only bikes that hadn't been down out of a group of 9, I decided to give them a lot more distance.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Goom

one of the guys gave me and my buddy with the Harley a hard time because we had the only bikes that hadn't been down out of a group of 9

get out of that group!

[Panda]

Originally Posted by toddblue68

Otherwise, you can eat other similar level riders that are on the bigger bikes in the corners.

Where does this idea come from? I see it a lot but I feel that me on a 600 is going to be faster through a twisty section than me on a 250. Do riders that track their 250s and 600s really get better splits through chicanes and the like on the 250?

250s are light and flickable yes...but if you pass somebody in the twisties on a 250 and they are on a 600 this seems like this is more a function of rider skill.

[csmith12]

Yes and no Dan. Given equal skilled riders, a 250 isn't gunna lead any laps against a 600 on a big boy track. Maybe catch up a lil bit through tight sections but given any real amount of straight or long sweepers and it's over right there.

EDIT: Take a talented 600 rider and put them on a 250 and they can do amazing things.

[Panda]

Cool, thanks for the info. Which bike do you prefer to track?

[csmith12]

Honestly, my R6. With a bit more muscle, it flicks just about the same as the 250 with V profile tires and a dialed in suspension, except the power is there too. But ya know.... when it come time to race, I choose the 250. Because top speed wise, I know the guy on the grid beside me isn't going much, if at all faster. It sucks to get motored on exit or in the straight. So winning the race is not a function of who has the phatter wallet.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by rPanda

Where does this idea come from?

I believe this idea started on a 250 forum.

Everyone knows there is nothing faster than a 250 in the turns!

[Nemesis]

You should never go "pinned". Never whack the throttle from 20% to full pin. Instead gradually roll on the throttle.

The lower the gear, the more gradual. The higher the gear, the quicker you can roll on the throttle. In other words, if the upcoming turn is normally taken in 2nd gear you should gradually roll on the throttle. But if taken in 3rd or 4th gear, you can & should roll on the throttle quicker to get the rear wheel spinning faster.

This will teach you throttle control.

Practice this at a parking lot: In the straights speed up to 35mph in 3rd gear then take a long sweeping turn gradually rolling on the throttle after you have initiated your turn. You'll notice the torque and how easily the bike pulls through the turn. Now, try the same drill in 3rd gear but just before turn in shift up to 4th (if you can get it to 5th even better) and gradually roll on the throttle. You'll notice the bike bogging or not as smooth like taking it in 3rd gear. Try the 2nd drill again and roll on the throttle faster till you can feel the bike pulling and stable like it was 3rd gear.

The drill should help you learn how to roll on the throttle through the turn. And you won't lowside so long as you're not deviating from the goal. In other words, don't go with the mindset of trying to drag knee.

[alex.s]

250s are easier to throw around in turns. you can be wide open throttle and flick the bike to the other side relatively easy... doing the same thing on a 600 is quite a bit of work and doing it too quickly can get you out of shape pretty easily. of course, if you know how to apply throttle properly (most "newer" riders on 600s dont) then there really is no chance for the 250.

[Slick_Stevo]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

This will teach you throttle control.

Practice this at a parking lot: In the straights speed up to 35mph in 3rd gear then take a long sweeping turn gradually rolling on the throttle after you have initiated your turn. You'll notice the torque and how easily the bike pulls through the turn. Now, try the same drill in 3rd gear but just before turn in shift up to 4th (if you can get it to 5th even better) and gradually roll on the throttle. You'll notice the bike bogging or not as smooth like taking it in 3rd gear. Try the 2nd drill again and roll on the throttle faster till you can feel the bike pulling and stable like it was 3rd gear.

The drill should help you learn how to roll on the throttle through the turn. And you won't lowside so long as you're not deviating from the goal. In other words, don't go with the mindset of trying to drag knee.

great advice...I will try this drill

[WesleySnipes]

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

I'm still scared. Last season was my first ever on a street bike, I didn't get out too much. I did a few group rides with some people I met through a local forum up here, I was always in the back. By late in the season, I was fine keeping up to them in the short twisty stuff, but I was lacking confidence going fast in the long wide sweepers, the bike would feel squirmy and it felt like i was losing handling , especially on windy days.

So fast forward after a long winter, I had put on new tires andclip ons. Out I go for a good ride last friday by myself, for a good 7 hrs, it felt like a new bike. I was rolling on the throttle and keeping it rolled on through the wide sweepers. It was awesome, I felt like I had made some major improvements. Gripping with my knees, countersteering, doing all the stuff I had read about over the winter.

Saturday comes and the first group ride of the season, its supposed to be easy paced, I was psyched, there is only one other 250, a guy with a hyosung, never met him before but heard is is a pretty good rider, the rest were liter bikes and a couple zx6's.

We start off, I'm feeling pretty good I was keeping pace fairly well but still at the back. We go for about 2 hrs, awesome no problems, curvy roads averaging about 15 -20 mph over the speed limit (50mph). After lunch we get on a long straight stretch with a few big wide sweepers......I'm done, I can see them in the distance getting further and further away, wind is blowing like crazy off the farmer's fields. I'm not feeling too comfortable (doing about 80) and I'm a distant memory to them.

I think I'm gonna lay off the group rides for a while.

I guess some people are just different I love the feeling of the whole bike leaned over while going in a straight line at 80mph+(Due to wind). Get some Pirelli Sport Demons those things are awesome. Made the bike feel way better in and out of corners. (I used to run that GT501 I believe and the rear felt like butter slidin all over the place.

[toddblue68]

Originally Posted by rPanda

Where does this idea come from? I see it a lot but I feel that me on a 600 is going to be faster through a twisty section than me on a 250. Do riders that track their 250s and 600s really get better splits through chicanes and the like on the 250?

250s are light and flickable yes...but if you pass somebody in the twisties on a 250 and they are on a 600 this seems like this is more a function of rider skill.

Skill is the point in the corners. Any monkey can twist the throttle on a sportbike in a straight line and reach light speed. Nor would it apply to any section of a track where speeds are over 100mph. But reigning in a monster from mid-to-high triple digits down to 50mph, tipping it in, holding that 100-150 hp in check while leaned over for a 360 double apex (with off camber exit), then not high-siding coming out of the corner takes a little more skill than doing the same turn on a 250. Differences being you won't be entering over 100mph (or much). Maintenance throttle on 27hp is easy. And unless it's wet in spots, the rider hits the brakes, or drops down a gear, I don't think a 250 is as likely to high side. With less mass and lower COG, the rider hanging off helps keep the bike more upright at similar corner speeds. It's just easier to go faster in corners on lighter, lower powered bikes.

Not to mention, it really is a lot of fun. Now, if you weight more than 160lbs and have stock 250 suspension, YMMV.

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

I would , but I'm from north of Bowmanville (fairly new to the area as well), so its a hour and half ride to most of their meet up points. These guys are local and know the roads going north and east.

On a side note, I got to see some of the gopro footage taken from an R1 with a tank mount that day. They were doing 220 to 260 Km/hr on the stretch after lunch.

I don't feel so bad now

Take the course at mosport track right near you. Newbies are welcome and there's separate groups and instructors for each set of 4 people. No dicking around or they're off the track. Newbies can't pass in spots etc. It will make you comfortable with hard braking and speed. The instructors are supposed to be amazing. I'm going there this year too. Not expensive.
If you want a relaxed ride east, give me a call, I'll pm you. I don't dick around on the street. I like life and trust no one. I know other riders who enjoy a decent paced ride too, all makes and models, just like to ride and enjoy it. In Ontario we have too many quarries - read rocks all over the road, moose and deer, cow crossings..have you slid on a frozen patty yet?

Seriously, I'll get you in touch with some chill people, speed is for the track. I'm in Kingston. Everyone wears gear too :-)

[Slick_Stevo]

I am taking a course at Mosport Rider Development track at the end of June, and GP bikes has a track day at that same course a couple days later, which I am thinking of doing. I think the key for me is just finding more seat time. I was hoping the weather would be a little more co operative this spring.

I will definately try and get out that way sometime this summer @Firehorse

[Alienjoe]

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

I would , but I'm from north of Bowmanville (fairly new to the area as well), so its a hour and half ride to most of their meet up points. These guys are local and know the roads going north and east.

On a side note, I got to see some of the gopro footage taken from an R1 with a tank mount that day. They were doing 220 to 260 Km/hr on the stretch after lunch.

I don't feel so bad now

220 to 260 kmh??!! So around 150 mph?? I would definitely find a new group to ride with. Having an R1 might be fun but all you teach yourself by doing that on the street in a non race prepped situation is how to hold your poo in.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Slick_Stevo

I am taking a course at Mosport Rider Development track at the end of June, and GP bikes has a track day at that same course a couple days later, which I am thinking of doing. I think the key for me is just finding more seat time. I was hoping the weather would be a little more co operative this spring.

I will definately try and get out that way sometime this summer @Firehorse

Awesome Steve, dat's da best way yo.