Tips for getting over fear of leaning?

[Sykes92]

Hey, so I'm into my third week of riding, and so far I have to say I have trouble making really tight turns at moderate speeds. I usually slow way down (rather be safe than gutsy) before some turns. There is a turn in another neighborhood, its a 90-100 degree angle and I always run wide into the other lane of traffic (never anyone there, but still). I remember to not chop the throttle and I even have started to scoot my butt off the seat and lean my head like Im looking around a doorway. Im also remembering to countersteer. But I can't for the life of me trust the bike to lean. I always think its just going to fall. This is usually sharp angles at low speeds of 10-20 mph. Any tips? I've been watching Twist of the Wrist II hoping it would just stick, but any additional advice is super appreciated. Thanks!

[Snake]

Slow speeds are not very good for learning to lean. The best thing to do is practice slow spead leans in an empty parking lot. Start the turn at your normal slow speed and once in the lean increase the speed and notice how the bike wants to come back up. Your confidence will increase knowing that you can control your lean angle by controlling your speed.

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by Snake

Slow speeds are not very good for learning to lean. The best thing to do is practice slow spead leans in an empty parking lot. Start the turn at your normal slow speed and once in the lean increase the speed and notice how the bike wants to come back up. Your confidence will increase knowing that you can control your lean angle by controlling your speed.

Keep in mind that the bike handles much differently at low speeds like that.

[adouglas]

Okay, since you're watching (and hopefully reading) TOTW II, which survival reaction(s) are you experiencing?

At the very least, #2, tightening on the bars, and #6, frozen steering. Probably 3 and 4 too, which are the ones about vision.

There is NO reason to slide off the seat at that speed. Period. IMHO you're paying attention to the "what" and not the "why" in that video. You slide off the seat to reduce the bike's lean angle and increase traction...but at 10-20 mph you're nowhere near the limits of traction to begin with.

I'll bet you're not looking up and through the turn. You're probably looking down at the road surface. Most likely you're target-fixed on the apex of the turn.

I'll bet you're so obsessed with keeping the bike from falling over that you're unable to think about, never mind execute, basic skills like throttle control.

Try this:

- Look as far ahead as you can. I don't mean 50 feet down the road. I mean as far as you can see, whether it's to the apex of the turn or waaaay down the road as the turn opens up. Your vision should shift as you go through the turn... you first identify your turn-in point, then shift your focus to the apex, then to the exit, then down the road... it all happens very quickly as the picture in front of you changes..

You will go where you look (remember that from the video, in the section where they fake a crash?).

- Use Throttle Rule #1... which you ARE repeating to yourself 1000 times, right?

Once the throttle is cracked open, it is rolled on evenly, smoothly and constantly throughout the remainder of the turn.

Accelerate through the turn. The bike will feel MUCH MUCH more stable.

What you're experiencing is not about chopping the throttle. It's about being too timid to apply it properly.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

Hey, so I'm into my third week of riding, and so far I have to say I have trouble making really tight turns at moderate speeds. I usually slow way down (rather be safe than gutsy) before some turns. There is a turn in another neighborhood, its a 90-100 degree angle and I always run wide into the other lane of traffic (never anyone there, but still). I remember to not chop the throttle and I even have started to scoot my butt off the seat and lean my head like Im looking around a doorway. Im also remembering to countersteer. But I can't for the life of me trust the bike to lean. I always think its just going to fall.........

Hi Cameron,

I hope that you have gone through all the exercises that we recommended to you for mastering emergency braking.
If not, forget about tight turns and keep practicing that.
If yes, then we have to investigate what the real problem is.

I am assuming that you are talking about a paved two-lane road.
If so, your bike can turn it easily; actually, it can make a circle of less than the width of that road, so, you could complete a U-turn within the edges of the road and without putting your feet down.

Then, your entry speed and your fear to fall may be working against the bike to make that turn.

Entry speed of 10~20 mph may be too high for you current state of training: first thing to do in order to calm down your fear is always to slow down.

With low speeds some problems become evident: counter-steering is not very effective and the bike is lazy to lean.
So, give the bike the time she needs to initiate a lean.

Lean angle is balance, you cannot fall from that state.
Whenever turning, your weight and the weight of the bike are not pointing straight down anymore but at certain angle away from the center of the turn.
What you do by leaning the bike is relocating the contact patches of your tires in line with the new direction of the weight.
You could lean your bike in a turn with your eyes closed, just by following your sense of balance: your butt will be pushing down the seat during the whole turn, fast, slow, tight or ample.

Don't feel bad, you are training your mind to the non-natural realm of motorcycling.

What you can never allow yourself is to drift into oncoming traffic.

This is good practice for the above recommended parking lot practice:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=173&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=233&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=217&Set=

http://amgrass.com/forum/practice-practice-practice/

[csmith12]

First things first, let’s keep you in your own lane. Slow down more for that curve! I would bet my next big face that your turning to early. Hang out a bit more before you turn and slow down to where you can confidently stay in your lane at any part of the curve.

To the topic at hand:
I can say so much here but Imma keep it simple. Your focusing on the negative, ie what you can't do. Instead, focus on where your skills are now and the next step to improve them. With improved skills, will come more lean angle.

Don't rush and have fun! Being new is a great time to ride.

[choneofakind]

^^ To add to what Chris said, focus on the core skills of riding. looking, pressing, rolling on the throttle, making smart lines with late turn-in, and using brakes properly to slow you down in a panic and adjust your line when something unexpected pops up in front of you. That's the important stuff.

Lean angle is not important at all. Don't think about it and it won't be an issue. Until you scrape pegs, don't even let lean angle cross your mind. When that happens, we will get you more in tune with your body positioning and suddenly lean will, once again, not be an issue for street riding.

With Chris's coaching at a few track days, I was able to improve a lot. The lean angle was cool and all, but I never even thought about it until suddenly my knee slider started vibrating and making funny noises. A couple turns later I realized, "Derp! It was dragging! Better hang off more!" Moral of the story, focus on the basics. Get good at them. Enjoy the chance to learn and grow. As with all advanced riding concepts, deal with them as you get to them. Don't over-think it right now.

[Boom King]

+1. I'm on board with what Chris and Chris just said. You're only three weeks into your riding career, focus on the basic core skills right now. The delayed line or apex is a good tool to have on the street. Going wide and into oncoming traffic can be deadly.



Explanation courtesy of the venerable David L. Hough. I also recommend reading parts 1 and 3 and put Proficient Motorcycling on your Christmas wish list.

[csmith12]

Your too kind Chone. In 3 days at the track, I never once said, "lean it over more". That happens all by itself.

[Tigerpaw]

Steady or increasing throttle & look where you want to go.

Practice, practice, practice. You have the rest of your life to make perfect.


**you don't need to practice getting off your seat yet**

[choneofakind]

Another thing. Slow turns are the hard ones. 10-20 mph is where you go from slow speed maneuvering to stable counter-steering. It can be a weird speed for turns.

I mentioned hitting the basics. One of those is rolling on the throttle. I'm not saying always go wide open, but you want a smooth, solid, confident roll on starting after you've tipped in and started your turn. This will help the bike feel more planted and stable the whole way through your turn. This stable feeling should help your confidence in the bike's lean a little.

Motorcycles are weird, they prefer accelerating through turns. They're much more stable when they do so.

[csmith12]

In review, I know we are not directly answering your question about fear and lean. The only other thing I would have to say on this subject right now is...

Nobody ever really gets rid of their fears of leaning, speed, braking or whatever. They learn to cope with different levels of tolerance of them. TOTW calls them SR's. In time, you will call them "butt pucker" moments. It's an endearing term, trust me.

[adouglas]

"What I have discovered is that 95 percent of my students reach unexpected new levels of confidence after only half a day of classroom plus track training, and htat half of them can be coached to a high degree of technical skill in two days: but only if they ride at about 75 percent of their limit.

"What happens after 75 percent? Everyone agrees, in some fashion, survival reactions (commonly known as fear) are the ever-present barrier to reaching their goals."

(Keith Code, Twist of the Wrist II)

Take it easy, ride within your limits so you can focus on learning.

[Sykes92]

Haha well once again, a lot of wonderful information to absorb and such a helpful community. I have been practicing braking but have yet to master it. So I do think you guys are right, I will stick to my basics. I do have to say I did catch myself in a habit of looking at the ground a few feet in front of the bike. It did help to just ignore that today. I think maybe another problem I had was rolling on the throttle before initiating the lean. Idk if that could have caused a more difficult turn or not. But I feel some mastery of the brakes and slow speed maneuvering will aide in some confidence through those 90 degree turns. As for SR's. I do my very best not to chop the throttle, but it does get the best of me every now and then, and I try very diligently to keep my weight off my bars, so I dont believe im tightening on them. But I will try to absorb everything that was said in the thread. Thank you all again! I greatly appreciate it!

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

I think maybe another problem I had was rolling on the throttle before initiating the lean. Idk if that could have caused a more difficult turn or not.

yep, that aint helpin'

What amount of throttle should you have when initiating a turn?

[evidens83]

Like somebody mentioned already, from what I've learned in MSF class, Look, Press, Roll. If you happen to live by a MSF "parking lot" try practicing there when class is out. The lines should already be painted. The best thing that helped me in corners is a consistent roll of the throttle. Good luck and stay safe!

[JohnnyBravo]

Don't target fixate... Did you take the MSF? Did I mention don't target fixate? Ride your ride the fancy stuff mostly comes by itself with seat time! I used to be scared of everything on my bike, these days not so much!

[adouglas]

Yeah, getting on the throttle before you tip in is not helping at all.

Again, I think you may be fixating on the "what" in the TOTW video rather than the "why."

The video does talk about getting on the throttle as early as you can... that certainly does NOT mean before you even turn the bike!!!

Look at this... the darker blue is where you're rolling on the throttle. The lighter blue is where you're either off throttle or have it just barely open (i.e. maintenance throttle). Ignore the "trail braking" label... that's a more advanced skill.

[ai4px]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

Hey, so I'm into my third week of riding, and so far I have to say I have trouble making really tight turns at moderate speeds. I usually slow way down (rather be safe than gutsy) before some turns. There is a turn in another neighborhood, its a 90-100 degree angle and I always run wide into the other lane of traffic (never anyone there, but still). I remember to not chop the throttle and I even have started to scoot my butt off the seat and lean my head like Im looking around a doorway. Im also remembering to countersteer. But I can't for the life of me trust the bike to lean. I always think its just going to fall. This is usually sharp angles at low speeds of 10-20 mph. Any tips? I've been watching Twist of the Wrist II hoping it would just stick, but any additional advice is super appreciated. Thanks!

Take the MSF class!

Layout a 120° arc using a string and chalk in a parking lot that is about 50' radius. Make another arc 42' so you'll have a lane that is 8' wide. Run thru that arc repeatedly in 2nd gear.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

Don't forget to alternate directions so you get practice left and right.

You'll soon figure out as you go slower that the bike has forward inertia and steering into a turn tighter makes the bike stand upright. You'll be amazed at the leans you can recover from by steering.

Also, here's an analogy for you..... A bike is an inverted pendulum. Like a yard stick with a heavy ball at the top. Balance a yard stick on the tip of your finger with a weight on top of it. If you want the yard stick to move left, you gotta move the bottom (your finger) to the right and cause the yard stick to begin to tip over. Once it's leaning, it will fall to the left, correct? You can then move your hand to the left to keep under it. When you want it to stop moving left, you have to rush your hand under it and make it stand vertical again.

This works for a motorcycle too... it is the counter steering. Consider that all the mass of the bike is up high... you, 5 gallons of gas and a motor. If you want a bike to steer left, you gotta get the bottom most part to go right (just as with the base of the yard stick above). Once the bike is leaning and you want it to stand up, you gotta steer the tires back under it.

So to turn, you gotta lean... to lean you gotta steer the tires out from under the bike in the opposite direction briefly. To stand a bike up, you gotta steer the tires back under the bike.

In super low speed stuff (ie walking speed) you gotta ride the clutch. I was always taught not to ride the clutch in a car, but a bike's clutch is designed to slip. Don't get crazy with it, but certainly ride the clutch in low speed maneuvers. Your objective is to use the clutch to make sure you maintain enough forward inertia so that your counter steering can work.

oh, and take the MSF class!

[JohnnyBravo]

Then how do I lean in low speed turns... Like turning into the bank, or turning out into traffic? It's not counter steering

[JohnnyBravo]

Do you try to keep your head upright? When my head got at funny angles early on it was hella scary... Keeping my head upright and level with the road and not target fixating helped me the most early on, After I took the MSF course... Best money the army ever spent on me, well besides cool toys, airplanes, omlettes, and armored things

[Sykes92]

I am at work right now so I cant respond to everything, but to the 2-3 people telling me to take the MSF course, I have. lol.

[JohnnyBravo]

Good stuff... You just need practice and safe seat time. Seat time helps get the advice into practice, and advice is a plenty around this fine establishment. Have a good day at work


Psssssssst P.S. if ya dunno their are plenty of MSF instructors around this place, and about any basic problem brings up basic rider course, advanced problem = advanced rider course, sport bike problem??? You get the picture= sport bike rider course

You got problems, we have advice and point folks towards education, like twist of the wrist, sport bike school, track days and track schools, proficient motorcycling, and recipes

[JohnnyBravo]

The trust issue part brings back fond memories for me... Takes me back, to a few months ago... Don't worry just do the best you can and one day it will click and you will have fond memories to... Fond terrifying memories hahaha

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Good stuff... You just need practice and safe seat time. Seat time helps get the advice into practice, and advice is a plenty around this fine establishment. Have a good day at work


Psssssssst P.S. if ya dunno their are plenty of MSF instructors around this place, and about any basic problem brings up basic rider course, advanced problem = advanced rider course, sport bike problem??? You get the picture= sport bike rider course

You got problems, we have advice and point folks towards education, like twist of the wrist, sport bike school, track days and track schools, proficient motorcycling, and recipes

advanced rider course is the civilian version of the sport bike rider course. the basic riders course 2 (former experienced riders course) is between brc and arc.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

advanced rider course is the civilian version of the sport bike rider course. the basic riders course 2 (former experienced riders course) is between brc and arc.

Well they were telling us stories then, cause we had advanced and sportbike and so many ride this or that courses on post in Georgia it made my head spin hahaha ... Shame I didn't stay long enough to try em all on for size

I kid I kid, thanks for straightening that out...

[jeffb502]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Then how do I lean in low speed turns... Like turning into the bank, or turning out into traffic? It's not counter steering

Remember the U-turn box in the MSF? My recollection is they told us to lean the bike, but not lean with it (stay upright) during very low speed, tight, clutch control type turns. Maybe if you didn't try to lean with the bike at lower speed it would feel more comfortable? As mentioned earlier, 15mph is a weird speed to be turning. Maybe try going slower and using slow speed technique, or going a bit faster, counter steering, and leaning with the bike if you can do so safely.

You mentioned drifting over the center line. It sounds like it's happened more than once on the same turn. I'd imagine if you've drifted over the line in the past you may be focusing on the line saying "I'm not going to cross it this time" then suddenly since you focused on it you're crossing it. I would pick a landmark past that turn (like a tree or light pole) that you can focus on that forces you to look through the turn, not at the lines on the road.

Also, you're correct about counter steering not working at very low speeds. That was the one thing I would change about the MSF BRC...after riders got comfortable turning at 15mph or so where counter steering isn't 100% evident I would have them make more sweeping turns at higher speed where it becomes evident one has to counter steer. On the 120 degree sweeping turn exercise in the class I was going slow and not leaning very much at first. When I picked up speed and leaned more I got scared the first time I did it right, then I realized that was how I was supposed to do it and that became my favorite exercise once I picked up some speed and leaned more. To respond to your original question about getting over fear of leaning, I think the best way is to practice leaning. I would recommend setting up a 120 degree turn like the MSF course in a parking lot somewhere so you can build your confidence without worrying about drifting into oncoming traffic.

My main problem that I would have in the class (and it has been mentioned many times in this discussion) was not twisting my neck to look where I was going to wind up at the end of the turn. Every time I went wide on the slow speed 90 degree turn at the end of the slalom was because I was doing something stupid like looking at the ground directly in front of me or looking at the turn markers as I passed them. I would usually get a yell from the instructor like "TAKE OFF THE NECK BRACE!" then I would do it right the next few times.

I'm a newbie too, just trying to offer some helpful suggestions. Also I think the best way to learn something is to teach it, so by letting me type you're helping me learn and remember what I learned in the class. Thanks for the post, it sparked a very helpful discussion.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by jeffb502

Remember the U-turn box in the MSF? My recollection is they told us to lean the bike, but not lean with it (stay upright) during very low speed, tight, clutch control type turns. Maybe if you didn't try to lean with the bike at lower speed it would feel more comfortable?...............

For U-turn tips, check this thread:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ghlight=u-turn

However, I believe that the OP is having problems with a regular street corner.
In both cases the technique and approach should be different.

Keeping things simple is better for him at his current level of experience.
Nothing wrong with practicing U-turns, but it is incorrect for him to approach a 15 mph corner shifting his body in either direction.

It is mainly a balance thing, and keeping his body in line with the bike simplifies the learning of the leaned balance.
Tracing right and left circles on a clean and empty parking lot will be helpful for him.
Circles at constant speed eliminate the distractions of braking, apex, throttle opening, etc.:just getting familiar with balance and lean angle.
Step by step he can reduce the radius of the circles, keeping the same comfortable speed.
As that circle gets smaller, the lean angle will get more pronounced.
He will remain there until the new angle becomes familiar and so on.
He should leave the circles only by straightening the bike up (via counter-steering) and then slowing down.

There is no need to fall, or crash or incursion into hang-off territory.
First-things-first brought us from crawling to walking, there is no need to change a system that works.

[rasta]

There's nothing I can add to this thread that hasn't already been said, but I think I can reiterate an important point. Looking through the turn is such a helpful skill to master (well, I guess they all are lol). It's one of the hardest things to do when you sense that you're going too wide in a curve.

Personally, one thing that helped me get comfortable on the bike was doing zig-zags. They had a few drills in the MSF course that implemented it. Just press right for a couple feet, press left for a couple feet, right, left, etc. Sounds like you're not quite confident in the bike's ability to stabilize itself. Zig-zagging might help put your mind at ease and let it realize, "Okay, I'm not just going to fall over."

Though I should note, when I was doing that, it was a little faster ~20-30 mph.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

Hey, so I'm into my third week of riding, and so far I have to say I have trouble making really tight turns at moderate speeds. I usually slow way down (rather be safe than gutsy) before some turns. There is a turn in another neighborhood, its a 90-100 degree angle and I always run wide into the other lane of traffic (never anyone there, but still). I remember to not chop the throttle and I even have started to scoot my butt off the seat and lean my head like Im looking around a doorway. Im also remembering to countersteer. But I can't for the life of me trust the bike to lean. I always think its just going to fall. This is usually sharp angles at low speeds of 10-20 mph. Any tips? I've been watching Twist of the Wrist II hoping it would just stick, but any additional advice is super appreciated. Thanks!

My best advice? Trust your bike. It can lean much farther than most riders are ever comfortable leaning. Need proof? Good look at the sides of your rear tire and you'll see just how much more rubber there is to grip that you probably haven't used yet.
However, the procedure for high speed turns is different than that of low-speed maneuvers. For low speed, push the bike up under you a bit and let it do most of the leaning. Accelerate smoothly and slowly. For high speed, the only reason you "hang off" is to save a fractional amount of extra traction b/c you're doing some of the leaning for the bike. This is typically only needed for high speed turns when running of of traction is an issue.
Have fun learning! Keep reading, practicing, and if you can, take her to the track to learn the true meaning of leaning!

[ally99]

Originally Posted by csmith12

First things first, let’s keep you in your own lane. Slow down more for that curve! I would bet my next big face that your turning to early. Hang out a bit more before you turn and slow down to where you can confidently stay in your lane at any part of the curve.

An additional thought, Lee Parks's Total Control has a chapter addressing fear. He also goes in detail about the delayed apex method of turn-ins Chris mentioned...wait later than you think you should to turn in, turn in quicker, the bike is leaned over for less time, and you carve more of a straight line through a corner.

[Bones85]

Is there an empty parking lot that you could go to on weekends and practice? It'd probably be the best way to practice these slower turns. You definitely don't want to get into the habit of going into the oncoming lane.

What gear are you taking these turns in? I like 2nd gear for these types of turns because it's just a lot smoother and easier to control. 1st gear is too jerky.

[rojoracing53]

Dude don't be to offended buy this but by reading you OP you shouldn't even be on public roads yet. You obviously need some close off area practice or start riding the hell out of a bicycle to gain some confidence in a safer manner. Maybe the way you described your original running wide into the other lane scenario was over dramatic but it sounds like your the perfect example of the type of person that obliviously shouldn't be on a motorcycle on roads. The MSF often passes riders that obiviously don't have the needed skills or confidence to safely ride in public and just sends you off to figure it out on their own anyways.

Yes I can be an asshole, and my standards of the average riders needed ability to safely ride in the road are much higher then I see most riders display on a day to day basis. But since you've already gotten this far in please listen the this forums advise, they are here to help. Please try and find someone local, maybe on another area based forum who's willing to watch you ride and give a little feed back. Don't be shy, there's lots of random riders willing to help you out if you just ask.

Two great alternative methods to leaning the basic of operating a two wheel vehicle without actually riding a street bike on roads and risking yours and others safety are riding a bicycle and riding a dirt bike. A small 100cc dirt bike would be great but hard to come by if you don't already know someone you can borrow it from. A bicycle is easy to get and when I ask someone if they know who to ride a bicycle I don't mean just pedaling down you street and back. What I'm referring to is being able to take tight turns smoothly, swerve between multiple objects with minimal mid corner steering correction find some dirt and lock up the rear wheel to see how it feels to slide, basically all the stuff you learned in msf but on an easier machine to control. Once you've mastered something on an easy platform you can then reference the sensation and feedback you got from the activity and use that knowledge to help master the same maneuver to a more difficult machine.

Again not trying to be a deliberate asshole(well maybe a little ) I just don't sugar coat things and only have your safety in mind.

@CycleCam303 is the exact opposite of me when it come to opinion of new riders and is an MSF instructor so maybe he'll also give you some advise.

[JohnnyBravo]

I think he had more trouble stopped than going, yet idk I'm not there... But do it safe, do it sane, enjoy the ride

I was almost terrified of my bike for the longest time, but I rode my own ride, and I'm still here to tell about it...
My second ride wound up all about target fixating... I thought I was gonna die. Oddly my first ride on my 300 was super sweet

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Again not trying to be a deliberate asshole(well maybe a little ) I just don't sugar coat things and only have your safety in mind.

Welp, too bad. I've been doing just fine on public roads and highway the last 3 weeks. I went back and looked at the described turn in the road, it's deeper than 100' radius. My problem was solved when I rode close to the center lane before my approach. And I haven't had much issue with turning or leaning the last week or so. I listened to different member's advice and it worked fine, I didnt have the chance to reply lately.

Just in my defense, I have decided as beginner to take all the precautions to ride safe. I'm buying the best gear I can on my budget, I bought a 250 and not a 600. I took the MSF and I came to this forum and am not afraid to admit when I do not know something. I'm no expert, I'm still learning, but telling me I shouldn't ride a motorcycle? Nah bro.

[choneofakind]

It's Rojo, he has very high expectations and standards both as a perfectionist and a motorcyclist. You have to chat with Jason a bit to understand where he's coming from with his post. Yeah he started off a little abrasive there, but he's a great asset to have here and he's really helpful.

Seriously though, he probably thinks I'm also not fit to be on the roads and that I need more experience on a bicycle. Don't take it too hard.

(I do need more experience on a bicycle)

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

It's Rojo, he has very high expectations and standards both as a perfectionist and a motorcyclist. You have to chat with Jason a bit to understand where he's coming from with his post. Yeah he started off a little abrasive there, but he's a great asset to have here and he's really helpful.

Seriously though, he probably thinks I'm also not fit to be on the roads and that I need more experience on a bicycle. Don't take it too hard.

(I do need more experience on a bicycle)

I mean, I'm so close to my work that I rode a bicycle almost everyday. I'll do circles around someone walking at a steady pace. But it's really different handling a 30 lb bicycle as opposed to a 350lb bicycle with an engine hahah.

[allanoue]

Time to say it again:

You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck. - Unknown

[choneofakind]

There's also a huge difference between being able to pedal/stop/operate a bicycle while commuting and being able to control a bicycle at lean on a turn that's off camber, over the crest of a hill, with loose ground conditions at 20+ mph. That's the whole point he's making.

That massive difference in skill for a bicycle is the same difference in skill he's seeing between your riding and what he considers proficient riding. The MSF is a fantastic starting point, but it's just too easy and should really be continued further into more detail.

My biking videos aren't impressive, but this one shows why a little skill on a bicycle goes a long way on a motorcycle. It shows why staying loose on the bars is so important. I clipped a tree with my bars (bad judement) and went totally sideways up a 3 ft embankment. Managed to stay relaxed and never need to unclip. Kept on my merry way.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Then there's riding in winter. That's a whole new skill, also applicable to motorcycling. The whole bike slides and floats under you, which is a feeling that puts many riders in contact with the asphalt.

Don't be so quick to deny the ties between controlling a bike and controlling a motorcycle.

[allanoue]

check out this nut

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Currently cutting back on fun rides on the 250 to avoid any unwanted attention so I've been taking out the bicycle here and there instead. cant decide which is more dangerous, doing tripple the speed limit in full leathers on the 250 or double the speed limit wearing 1/2 a mm of lycra and foam ice chest on my head. It funny how one is so hated by the public and the other is frowned upon at best

Link to original page on YouTube.