fear of riding?

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

I didn't read the whole thread but explain to your mom that although you appreciate and understand her concern for your well-being, you're extremely disappointed with how she's not respecting your choices as an adult and can't understand that this is what makes you happy.

Maybe read the thread. It's about walking before running.

[ZeroGravity360]

Wow, this thread really took off. Thank you guys for helping me understand that I am not alone in this. Everyone did start somewhere, just a lot of people forget that.

Originally Posted by corksil

By getting on the bike, you are assuming the risk.

If you don't feel like assuming the risk, don't get on the bike.

Our modern society in the west is very 'hand holding' and 'coddling' -- yet motorcycles will continue to the be exception, not the rule.

Recently a very close friend of mine -- aged 60+, who has been riding bikes his entire life since age eight -- crashed a dirtbike while fooling around on his own private property. Long story short, four broken vertebrae in the neck and he's lucky to be walking. Could have easily been paralyzed from the neck down instead, at which point his life would be over.

If you don't feel like assuming the risk, don't get on the bike.

The person I mentioned.. still has no recollection of what happened and never will. He remembers putting on his helmet and starting the bike as he has done a thousand times before, but the rest of what unfolded is a giant question mark in his brain.

Dangit, why are we thinking about this again. It's the same repetitive mental thought loop and if you don't break the cycle, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Think happy thoughts!

I would appropriate if it you do not comment on my threads if you always have something negative to say.

[ZeroGravity360]

Originally Posted by Panda

You don't sound that confident about your riding skills if your mom can scare you enough not to ride by asking you to take a reasonable safety precaution.

Take the MSF, get confidence, and control over your bike. It's not going anywhere.

Ride safe!

Also Rossi is like 6'

You obviously have not met my mother... LOL! No but seriously, I might be older but I VERY much respect and listen to my mother still. Might seem odd to you, thats just how Italian families are raised. Plus if she ever found out I didnt, she would drive to my house and be waiting for me.

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

Group rides for n00bs are a good idea only if they are small groups organized by experienced, mature riders specifically for n00bs.
Parking lot practice (I still do that with over 40 years experience) and solo, quiet secondary roads are where best to learn if not at a track day or school. And study TOTW11 as well as other defensive riding resources before throwing yourself into the mele of commuter traffic. Your life depends on it and I'm not being dramatic. Especially if you regard yourself as clumsy and doubly so if you think you're a rock star.

Keep in mind: we old farts know a lot of dead riders. We had moments too but some luck and education kept us around.

&

Originally Posted by Sirref

I agree with the group rides for newbies. Cruiser rides sure since those tend to be more laid back but not sport bike rides.

Though it is good to ride with 1-3 people who are willing to accommodate the beginner pace and make the newbie comfortable so that they can learn from the other rider's experience

I actually rode twice with another n00b rider, he had a cruiser (honda rebel) and it wasnt too bad. We did high way practice last night and the wind was hitting me so hard I had to get off. I dont know if its my windshield or what, but 60 mph feels so fast because of the wind.

I actually decided to wait to commute because last night I had a slight mishap, and ACCIDENTALLY pulled a wheelie. I stalled at a stop light that was on a slight incline, got frazzeled because the car behind me started beeping. I put it back in to N and started it again got back into gear and cranked the throttle a little too much and let go of the clutch a little too fast. I have decided I am not ready yet haha...

[InvisiBill]

Statistically speaking, you're 27x as likely to die riding a bike compared to driving a car. Motorcycles aren't inherently any more dangerous than any other machine, but riding one on public roads can definitely put you in dangerous situations. We take precautions to avoid danger (training, bike maintenance, etc.) and to avoid injury in case of an accident (gear, technique, etc.), and there is risk in everything we do (simply inhaling the wrong "air" can kill you), but you're absolutely increasing risk by choosing to ride a motorcycle.

I say this not to scare people, but to make sure that you recognize and respect the risk involved in riding. Only you can decide if the reward outweighs the risk for you. Obviously, most of us here have decided it's worth the risk. Some people have decided that the risk involved in street riding is too high and now only ride in the controlled environment of a track. Some have had an accident and decided it's not worth the risk, and just given up riding altogether. What might have been a minor fender bender in a car can easily result in serious injuries on a bike, and a bunch of distracted people piloting two-ton missiles around you doesn't help anything.

We can all be hit by those one-in-a-million freak accidents at any time or place. Outside of that, doing our best to prepare for (and hopefully avoid) accidents/injury is the best way to decrease the danger of riding. But even the best rider in the best gear on the best bike is still at a much higher risk than the guy next to him in the Camry.

Keep in mind that your mom is upset about this because she's worried about something bad happening to someone she loves. She's not just trying to ensure that you never have any fun or take up enjoyable hobbies. I don't know what her riding experience was like, but that also may have given her some insight into the bad outcomes that are possible. Even if she's not communicating them to you well, she may have valid reasons for feeling the way she does.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by lizardywizard

On the MSF - I will say both that it taught me a lot and that everyone should try it once, and that it's not for everyone. I took it twice, first time we had to quit because my friend suffered severe heatstroke, second time I just got overwhelmed by the pace and started zoning out, and decided to tap out before I got myself in an accident. I don't learn well in group settings or with just verbal instructions, and the pace that I was expected to understand things at was way too fast. Plus the instructors were kind of assholes tbh. It definitely took me from "can't start the bike" to "can ride a little", but I still felt I was missing something.

The MSF expects you to do low speed stuff but doesn't teach how in my opinion. Dom taught me how to actually do it on a more-than-150cc bike.

It sounds like you had a horrible MSF class. I had been driving stick and riding quads for about 20 years and had my permit for a few months before taking the BRC, so obviously it was slightly different for me. However, a local DMV office decided to take the class as a team-building exercise or something. A number of them had never driven a manual, and most had no interest in even riding a motorcycle (they chose not to do the final riding test because they weren't going to get the $12 license endorsement anyway). By the end, they were all riding as well as I would expect any new rider to.

The only skill requirement listed for the class was being able to ride a bicycle (basic balance), and I would say that was accurate. We started with "duck-walking" the bike with our feet on the ground and just barely letting the clutch out enough for the bike to propel itself. After doing that for a bit, they had us lift our feet up to the pegs and actually ride slowly, then added shifting to go a bit faster. One of the biggest complaints I've seen about the BRC is that it's actually all low-speed. Due to the beginner nature and course size, you don't really get above 30mph, which doesn't necessarily provide great training for the standard 55mph speed limit or 75mph expressway riding.

Like I said, we went into it with very different levels of experience, but your class sounds like the opposite of what I've experienced and heard from others about the BRC.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

I would appropriate if it you do not comment on my threads if you always have something negative to say.

Unfortunately that's the way corky is, he means well and is fairly intelligent but isn't the most talented at communication.

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

I actually rode twice with another n00b rider, he had a cruiser (honda rebel) and it wasnt too bad. We did high way practice last night and the wind was hitting me so hard I had to get off. I dont know if its my windshield or what, but 60 mph feels so fast because of the wind.

I actually decided to wait to commute because last night I had a slight mishap, and ACCIDENTALLY pulled a wheelie. I stalled at a stop light that was on a slight incline, got frazzeled because the car behind me started beeping. I put it back in to N and started it again got back into gear and cranked the throttle a little too much and let go of the clutch a little too fast. I have decided I am not ready yet haha...

I've been there for sure, those sensations are special. The first few times you feel the wind at speeds you've never felt the wind from. It'll pass shortly with experience, I still miss that feeling sometimes.

These things happen, I've wheelied off of launch more times than I care to count though those were intentionally trying to get more speed. As a rule of thumb don't add throttle at the same time you release the clutch and the likelihood of it will reduce itself significantly, you can add throttle before you begin releasing the clutch. People are impatient, flip them off if you're too uncomfortable or at the very least ignore them and ride your own pace. One of the easiest ways to ride over your head is to ride for someone else's comfort and people in cars certainly have a lot more comfort.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

I'm telling you, in 10 - 15 years the MotoGP will be won by a woman. Rossi is like 5'4" and 135 lbm... It's hard to find guys that small...

https://rideapart.com/articles/sheri...cers-us-racing

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

I would appropriate if it you do not comment on my threads if you always have something negative to say.

corksil may be a bit coarse, but he has a good point.

We do what we can, but everything can go to **** in an instant - we need to accept that. Be physically prepared for the worst by wearing all of the gear, be mentally prepared to react, but never envision bad things happening.

I always feel mentally prepared when I ride, or I don't go. I also know there are no guarantees, and much better riders than myself (namely Dane Westby) have lost their lives in seemingly normal situations on the street.

You are fine to question your ability at this point - there is a lot to learn. I've been riding for 40 years (35 on the street, 10 on the track) and I'm still learning every time out. Getting some proper training and hopefully some time on a dirt bike will help you feel more prepared.

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Panda

Ride safe!

Also Rossi is like 6'

holy crap, one source has Rossi at 6' 146 lbm... that is one tall skinny dude.

Mick Doohan was a bigger guy who could go fast.


8 lbm = 1 Bhp.

small and light is going to win the race

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

I would appropriate if it you do not comment on my threads if you always have something negative to say.

He lacks tact but he means well and he's speaking the truth.

[CaliGrrl]

Not everyone started riding at 18.... I'm 46 and just got my license in January, and I'm taking this all in baby steps. I warn my hubby a lot of the time when I'm in "super coward mode" and will be taking those corners in the canyons at a fairly slow speed. Other days, the bike feels pretty good, and I'll be at normal noob-speed.

Couple of months now on the bike, and I've still only done a few runs on the freeways. That's kind of my next project- getting going on the faster more chaotic roads. So taking it slow is a good idea, in my opinion. I'm also not going with the local sport-bike group yet, as much as I'd like to. I'll go with a couple other riders, one of whom is also fairly new, but that's about it. Groups are too crazy at this point, and they go too fast. I'd end up doing something dangerous in order to keep up.... so.... no.

Carrying emergency info is a good idea and I probably should do that, too.

Moms worry. They just do. Getting her to take the MSF course with you is probably a good idea if she'll do it. There was a father/daughter pair in my class. He wasn't getting a license or a bike ,but he was there with his daughter, who planned to. Reassure her as far as how you are keeping yourself safe- gear and training, and how do you ride? Reassure her you're not a hot-rod. (you're not, right?)

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

8 lbm = 1 Bhp.

That's not a universal rule. It works perfectly if the rider + bike = 800 pounds, and the motor makes 100 hp. At that ratio, adding 8 pounds (1%) is very close to accelerating with 1 less hp (also 1%). Or losing 8 pounds is like gaining 1 hp.

But if you take a motogp bike that weights 350 pounds, a rider at 150 pounds (total weight 500 pounds), and a motor making 250+ hp, it's a little different.
If you add 8 pounds, it's a 1.6% penalty. Multiplied against that 250 hp, it's like losing 4 hp. So in this case a gain or loss of 2 pounds = a loss or gain of 1 hp.

For ninjettes, let's start at 370 pounds, 150 pounds rider for total of 520 pounds. 25 hp in round numbers. If you add 8 pounds, it's a 1.53% penalty. Multiplied against 25 hp, it's like losing .38 hp. So in this final case, a gain or loss of 21 pounds = a loss or gain of 1 hp.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by Alex

That's not a universal rule. It works perfectly if the rider + bike = 800 pounds, and the motor makes 100 hp. At that ratio, adding 8 pounds (1%) is very close to accelerating with 1 less hp (also 1%). Or losing 8 pounds is like gaining 1 hp.

But if you take a motogp bike that weights 350 pounds, a rider at 150 pounds (total weight 500 pounds), and a motor making 250+ hp, it's a little different.
If you add 8 pounds, it's a 1.6% penalty. Multiplied against that 250 hp, it's like losing 4 hp. So in this case a gain or loss of 2 pounds = a loss or gain of 1 hp.

For ninjettes, let's start at 370 pounds, 150 pounds rider for total of 520 pounds. 25 hp in round numbers. If you add 8 pounds, it's a 1.53% penalty. Multiplied against 25 hp, it's like losing .38 hp. So in this final case, a gain or loss of 21 pounds = a loss or gain of 1 hp.

So I have a 15.318 hp Ninja!

[motodancer]

Ah you're not old
I'm 28 and just took the MSF course, which I loved btw.
Anyone can go fast, but not everyone can go slow.
There was an almost 80-year-old man taking the class, super sweet, who had been riding for years and years, and he had the hardest time because of all his old dangerous habits.
And they DO teach you how to go slow (combo of throttle, clutch, rear brake)
Just do exactly as they say and you will do great. They thought I was awesome and kept saying so. I'm pretty sure my classmates hated me by the end of it, but I'll never see them again.
Take the MSF, then commute
I had so much fun, I want to take it again!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

.......... 8 lbm = 1 Bhp........

Originally Posted by Alex

That's not a universal rule.......

All that is very confusing to me.

What is the source of that universal rule?

All I know is that weight is only important during acceleration and that 1 HP means 550 foot-pounds-force per second (ft-lbf/s) measured at a rotating shaft.

(Sorry for derailing your thread even more, @ZeroGravity360)

[alex.s]

first of all, definitely don't commute in any traffic until you take the MSF and are comfortable controlling the bike in an emergency. keep the bike as a toy and not a utility until you are reasonably well rounded.

second of all, you should be scared. but you should be scared of the right things. you know what kills motorcyclists? cars, walls and posts. know what has none of those things? track days. something to think about for the future. your friend who almost killed herself at the dragon... why was she on the dragon? because its fun. its a twisty road. it's challenging. most people seem to forget the fact that it's also littered with potential death scenarios. a track has all of the same positives with almost none of the negatives.
some people buy motos because they're cheap.(and usually wind up with a scoot) others buy them because they're fun. it sounds like you're the latter, so know what you want to do with the thing; enjoy it. if that's your target (fun) then don't kid yourself on the side stuff. its a play thing, don't try to trick yourself into thinking it isn't.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

I'm telling you, in 10 - 15 years the MotoGP will be won by a woman. Rossi is like 5'4" and 135 lbm... It's hard to find guys that small...

I've always thought women had several physical advantages over men on motorcycles. I'm kinda surprised there hasn't already been a female motogp champ. maybe its a society thing? just not enough young girls being encouraged to take up the sport I guess?

[snot]

Originally Posted by alex.s

I've always thought women had several physical advantages over men on motorcycles. I'm kinda surprised there hasn't already been a female motogp champ. maybe its a society thing? just not enough young girls being encouraged to take up the sport I guess?

I can only speak for myself.
The difference I see with me vs the men I ride with:
1. Experience ... Muscle memory
2. Confidence, I know the bike can do way more than I let it. I constantly am reminding myself of the rules. Stay loose, watch input I am giving the bike, look through the corners, evaluate turn, steady throttle in the turns...etc.
3. Shape.. I am not in shape like I should be to ride like I want
4. Skill... Comes with time and practice

5. Balls... I will admit I am reserved when I don't need to be.

Once I master all of that I will comment on why I still get my but kicked.
I do think it is a mental game as well

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Motofool

All that is very confusing to me.

What is the source of that universal rule?

It's a rule of thumb that has some basis in truth, but varies much more than people realize. I've heard it as 7 lb is as good as 1 hp. Sounds like some have heard it as 8 lbs. What it means in practical terms is if it costs $1000 for an extra hp, or you can lose a handful of pounds instead (off you or the bike), doing either can result in the same increase in acceleration. On track, less weight helps in a number of additional ways as well though that are harder to calculate (easier braking, quicker turning, potentially less tire wear, etc.).

[csmith12]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Motofool

All that is very confusing to me.

What is the source of that universal rule?

All I know is that weight is only important during acceleration and that 1 HP means 550 foot-pounds-force per second (ft-lbf/s) measured at a rotating shaft.

(Sorry for derailing your thread even more, @ZeroGravity360)

it's more of a rule of thumb, pulled from a huge number of calculations.

Yes torque... think of it as a hockey player with a stick... He is applying torque to the puck with the stick, X number of pounds over, Y the length of the stick. He can accelerate the puck based on it's mass.

now put a bowling ball on the ice and have the hockey player do the same thing, the bowling ball doesn't accelerate nearly as fast as the puck with the same torque being applied.

so this 8 lbm = 1 Bhp is an average, of an average, of the fat spot on the bell curve for "most" motorcycles. Obviously very light bikes and very high power bikes will be on the outer edges of that thumb rule.

but it's a good scientific estimate of what your bike will feel like, will act like with 8-10 pounds removed from the machine and pilot, or 1 additional horse power added.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

it's more of a rule of thumb, pulled from a huge number of calculations.

Yes torque... think of it as a hockey player with a stick... He is applying torque to the puck with the stick, X number of pounds over, Y the length of the stick. He can accelerate the puck based on it's mass.

now put a bowling ball on the ice and have the hockey player do the same thing, the bowling ball doesn't accelerate nearly as fast as the puck with the same torque being applied.

so this 8 lbm = 1 Bhp is an average, of an average, of the fat spot on the bell curve for "most" motorcycles. Obviously very light bikes and very high power bikes will be on the outer edges of that thumb rule.

but it's a good scientific estimate of what your bike will feel like, will act like with 8-10 pounds removed from the machine and pilot, or 1 additional horse power added.

So if you are 30-40 lbs overweight going on a diet would be a better choice than a new set of pipes, air filter, and jet kit on your 250.

[verboten1]

It's still the rider though, My 250 Was faster everywhere than my wifes 250. and I am 2 of her.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by verboten1

It's still the rider though, My 250 Was faster everywhere than my wifes 250. and I am 2 of her.

Stunan & Wilf are animals at Willow Springs (600's & litre bikes) but are considerably larger than the average rider.

[Omarel]

@ZeroGravity360 I'm a little less than a year in so I know your feelings. I would listen to any advice @Motofool mentions.

It does suck when people close to you do the fear mongering more than strangers for sure.

But this isn't really about your mom.

I think this is about you and your comfort level and riding skills on the bike and the choice you make.

I think your biggest risk is your own riding skills.

I kept hearing people say that and I didn't get it until I started riding more often and seeing sh** happen on the road. I was like: it's those cars! But a lot of the time it's really you and your skill level.

Because at the end of the day it doesn't matter what cars do. What matters is the skill you have to tango on the road.

The best thing you can do is continue learning about proper riding techniques.

I've had several calls on the rode already that I can totally attribute to books and documentaries I've seen for saving my life.

Luckily for me, the right lessons kicked in at the right time on the road, whether it was:

1. slowing down before entering turns,
2. not chopping the throttle or slamming breaks as a survival mechanism on a turn,
3. looking where you want to go,
4. predicting and scanning 12 seconds ahead,
5. avoiding being in any car's blind spot anywhere on the road,
6. staying alert to everything,
7. paying attention to everything that could enter your path on 45 degree angles of both sides of you.
8. predicting what cars ahead will do
9. riding 75% within your skill level.
10. and so on

I can't imagine if I didn't know these things before experiencing them how I would've reacted.

As someone who is still getting acclimated, the double edged sword I found is that an empty lot has taught me nothing compared to being on the rode in real traffic.

It's like you need that continued exposure but of course you want to be sure to brush up on the right techniques before hand because mistakes on the road are much more costly than an empty lot.

Unfortunately sitting around in fear doesn't seem to help you actually become a better rider.

I would read and learn and ride a bit. Read and learn and ride a bit more according to your comfort level.

Excellent resources beside the course are:

1. Proficient Motorcycling book (I read it on the kindle http://amzn.to/1TWePiR)
2. Twist of the Wrist II video (https://youtu.be/5ZwyOCdUup8)

P.S. Age is not the issue, skill is.

[adouglas]

You win the Internet for today. Well done.

[allanoue]

@Omarel well said