What's a good step up from the Ninja 250?

[MrAtom]

The joke is that you get an R6, but I don't think I'd get an R6. It's a lovely bike, but I'm not comfortable with that level of unforgiving power.

I'm far from purchasing another bike, but this has been on my mind lately. What does one do if they want something bigger than a 250, but not so big that it's largely unforgiving? I'd think an SV650 would suit me, but what are some other options?

[empire00]

SV-650, FZ 07, Versys 650, Ninja 650, KTM 690 Duke, NC700X, ER-6, Ducati 695 Monster...etc.

It all really comes down to preference and what kind of riding you will be doing.

[Zaph42]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

The joke is that you get an R6, but I don't think I'd get an R6. It's a lovely bike, but I'm not comfortable with that level of unforgiving power.

I'm far from purchasing another bike, but this has been on my mind lately. What does one do if they want something bigger than a 250, but not so big that it's largely unforgiving? I'd think an SV650 would suit me, but what are some other options?

SV650 would be a great choice. The Ninja 650 would not, it's a horrible bike. FZ 07 would be a good choice too.

In general, if you don't want unforgiving stay away from a supersport. You have to wring their necks to go fast, and the way traditional i4 supersports make power is not easy to deal with.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by empire00

SV-650, FZ 07, Versys 650, Ninja 650, KTM 690 Duke, NC700X, ER-6, Ducati 695 Monster...etc.

It all really comes down to preference and what kind of riding you will be doing.

This is a pretty good list if you're just trading up. If, however, you have crashed your Ninja 250, then the R6 is the correct choice.

[Topaz]

Get the bike you dream of and you can afford.
If you don't dream of any bike, or you can't afford the bike you dream of, then keep the 250.

Supersport bikes are not that unforgiving if ridden in the middle range and you're using your head. The part of using your head is the most important.

[Dave Wolfe]

The unforgiving part of supersport bikes is the riding position. The power delivery is no worry.

[Zaph42]

Originally Posted by Dave Wolfe

The unforgiving part of supersport bikes is the riding position. The power delivery is no worry.

I don't know, Youtube begs to differ on that one.

By power delivery, I mean the shape of the curve and how the power comes on like a switch at 10K rpm. I've sure seen enough riders bite off more speed than they are ready for when they start to dabble in the 10K+ rpm range. They just ride off the road because their brain is telling them they can't possibly lean any further than 40 degrees.

But if a rider is mature enough to ride within his abilities, sure why not. Then we're back to the unforgiving ergos.

[csmith12]

What kind of rider are you becoming?

Want to tour?
Want to do twisties on weekends?
Want more comfort?
Need something with more terrain capabilities?

We can help ya a bit better with some additional info?

[Snake]

@MrAtom since you like the 250 and want to "upgrade" have you considered the Ninja 300?

[choneofakind]

If you have a modicum of self control and have worked on some intentional skill building exercises, what you learn on the 250 will allow you to successfully pilot any size motorcycle you'd like.

There will be a learning curve, obviously, but all the basics are the same; slow, look, press, roll, and awareness.

That said, I've ridden a ninja 650 and it felt JUST like a 250, but with more torque. Honestly, it was a bit of an appliance in its excitement level, but it has a lot of potential to be a decent all-around street motorcycle. If you're looking for a bike that's basically identical to the 250 but has more guts, the 650 is the way to go. The ergo's feel similar, the power delivery is similar (just more of it) and it's just as easily thrown around on curves. Depending on your usage and opinions, that may or may not be a good option to go to off of a ninjette. Many people want something different after being done with a 250 though. YMMV.

[A.J.]

I'm a Honda person. Love my Ninja 250 but next summer it's all about a CBR 600!
I seen a 2017 R6 yesterday and it was glorious and only 12k!! Lol
Yamaha is really starting to pull me in. You can just stick with a Ninja but if you're going to upgrade I would definitely check out Honda/Yamaha.

[kdogg2077]

The FZ07 is perfect. I went from Ninja 250 to FZ07 a few years ago myself.

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by csmith12

What kind of rider are you becoming?

Want to tour? Nah
Want to do twisties on weekends? Yes!
Want more comfort? Nah
Need something with more terrain capabilities? Nah

We can help ya a bit better with some additional info?

I guess what I'd really like is a Ninja that's got more guts on the highway. With my current setup, it's manageable, but barely.

Originally Posted by Snake

@MrAtom since you like the 250 and want to "upgrade" have you considered the Ninja 300?

I have, but I don't think it's for me. It's not quite enough. I've also considered the R3.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

If you have a modicum of self control and have worked on some intentional skill building exercises, what you learn on the 250 will allow you to successfully pilot any size motorcycle you'd like.

There will be a learning curve, obviously, but all the basics are the same; slow, look, press, roll, and awareness.

That said, I've ridden a ninja 650 and it felt JUST like a 250, but with more torque. Honestly, it was a bit of an appliance in its excitement level, but it has a lot of potential to be a decent all-around street motorcycle. If you're looking for a bike that's basically identical to the 250 but has more guts, the 650 is the way to go. The ergo's feel similar, the power delivery is similar (just more of it) and it's just as easily thrown around on curves. Depending on your usage and opinions, that may or may not be a good option to go to off of a ninjette. Many people want something different after being done with a 250 though. YMMV.

I've considered that as well, but I also want something at least a little different. The nekkid model, Z650, seems to be around what I want. FZ-07 is tempting, too.

[AwDang]

skip the 650's, yes both Kawi and Suzi.
FZ07, or if you're feeling spendy. Street triple.

[jkv45]

I have a couple SV650s - both newer ('06) and older ('00). They do everything pretty well, but aren't exactly small or lightweight, weighing about 100 pounds more than the Ninja 250 .

The 1st Gen SVs ('99 to '03) are carbed, and feel smaller overall than the 2nd Gens ('03 to '07/'08) which are F.I. but feel bigger and taller. After that they went to the Gladius, and eventually to a SV again that's a Gladius/SV mix.

I do like the FZ-07s. They have nicer components (wheels, gauges, etc) than the SV, and feels smaller overall than a SV. Still plenty of power. If I was buying something new right now I'd go with the FZ over the "new" SV.

The new Ninja 650s don't look too bad either, but not sure how they compare.

Street Triples are pretty nice if you can go there.

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by AwDang

skip the 650's, yes both Kawi and Suzi.
FZ07, or if you're feeling spendy. Street triple.

Any elaboration on that advice?

Originally Posted by jkv45

I have a couple SV650 - both newer ('06) and older ('00). They do everything pretty well, but aren't exactly small or lightweight, weighing about 100 pounds more than the Ninja 250 .

The 1st Gen SVs ('99 to '03) are carbed, and feel smaller overall than the 2nd Gens ('03 to '07/'08) which are F.I. but feel bigger and taller. After that they went to the Gladius, and eventually to a SV again that's a Gladius/SV mix.

I do like the FZ-07s. They have nicer components (wheels, gauges, etc) than the SV, and feels smaller overall than a SV. Still plenty of power. If I was buying something new right now I'd go with the FZ over the "new" SV.

The new Ninja 650 don't look too bad either, but not sure how they compare.

Street Triples are pretty nice if you can go there.

Street triples are pretty nice, but, call me a racist, I like my vehicles Japanese

[adouglas]

@csmith12 is asking sensible questions.

Silly man.

Do you have a helmet mohawk?
When shopping for farkles, do you look at stunt cages, chrome wheels, underbody LEDs and swing arm extensions?
Do you think spike-headed windshield bolts are awesome?
Is your idea of ATGATT a chrome German novelty helmet, T-shirt, drop-waist jeans and an ICON vest worn on the outside?
Do you yut-ughhhhhhh?

If that is that case, there's only one answer: 'Busa.

[MrAtom]

The only 'busa I'm interested in is the one I have on Grand Theft Auto Online.

And the gear I wear in that game is a bowtie, leopard spotted underwear, a fancy wristwatch, and nothing else

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

Any elaboration on that advice?

Street triples are pretty nice, but, call me a racist, I like my vehicles Japanese

Jay summed up my thoughts on SV's pretty well. I'll ad the Kawi 650 is the same to me, but with less power. The FZ07 feels like a big dirt bike. Wears it's weight low and has SV levels of power.
Go to a Triumph dealer and have a look / ride on a triple. Yeah, they allow test rides, it might just change your mind. The 675 triple is very linear with it's power application.

If you want to stay in the sport class of bikes. You might consider reaching back into the not so distant past, before 600's became Jekyll and Hyde machines. The CBR600 F4i, YZF600R, I think it was the ZZR600 from Kawi.

[adouglas]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a sec.

I ride a GSX-R750 on the street, and have an R6 track bike. I used to have a newgen Ninjette, originally stock and later jetted and equipped with a full exhaust. So I've got a fair bit of first-hand experience.

I believe that the whole OHMYGODYOUWILLKILLYOURSELF "unforgiving" "light switch" power delivery thing is vastly overblown. It's not like that. The power is formidable, sure, but if you've got any kind of self-control at all, it's not going to grab your skull like an alien face-hugger.

Can you get in a lot of trouble on a supersport in a big hurry? Of course you can... IF you ride like an idiot and get in over your head. It's all in the right wrist. On a Ninjette you can really whack the throttle. On a supersport, you can't... on street or track. It's quick... but it's not a "light switch" by any means.

I like to say that on the Ninjette, the party starts at 9,000 rpm. Ride a supersport like that on the street, and trouble awaits. If you get into the power band on any supersport you're by definition riding outside both the law and the boundaries of common sense.

So don't ride like that. Duh.

Go look up some stock dyno charts. You'll find that the GSX-R750 and SV650 are nearly identical up to about 7000 rpm. At that point the SV levels and then falls off, while the GSX-R keeps on going. Compare the SV dyno charts to an R6 and hey, look at that... the SV makes MORE power and MORE torque at the RPMs you typically use on the street. So does that mean the SV is "unforgiving?" Of course not. It really is all about the rider.

R6s kill inexperienced riders not because they're hard to manage, but because the inexperienced riders who get drawn to that bike tend to be young, male, full of testosterone and therefore more likely to think with the small head than the big one. They "need" more power so they go looking for it by choking the chicken -- I mean yanking the throttle -- I mean... oh hell. You know what I mean. Don't be that guy and you'll be fine.

So in terms of power delivery, the GSX-R750 and SV650 are very close under REAL WORLD street conditions. That's part of why I chose the 750 as my first real supersport. I rarely rev the engine faster than 7 or 8k because I don't have to... and it would be stupid to do so anyway.

Having said all that, supersports are not the world's greatest street bikes. They cost a lot to insure. Tires are far more expensive and wear out faster. They don't exactly sip fuel. They're high-profile theft targets. Low-speed maneuvering can be a hassle. Is the ride awesome? Hell yes. But it's like buying a Ferrari and using it to commute.

Most of my street miles are commuting. On a typical day my 17-mile commute takes between 45 minutes and an hour. The GSX-R is not a machine that's well-suited to that particular mission.

If I were to go out today and buy a bike for the kind of riding I actually do most of the time, it'd probably be an FZ-07 or maybe an FZ-09. I rode a Ninja 650 at a demo day about five years ago (so not the current generation) and it was a "meh" transportation appliance. Never ridden an SV, but I like the motor. Side-by-side with the Yamaha, I think it's lacking something. Triumphs are cool and sound like sex but the bug eyes really don't do it for me.

[michvin]

Honda's CB500 line (r/f/x and the new rebel)...
Powerful just enough, handling is great and very forgiving.
Just something to consider

[Sulman]

I think the Street Triple has a reputation for being an incredible do-it-all bike, if you've got the money. They're expensive. I've ridden the FZ-09 and that thing is a hoot, but I think the FZ-07 is a little better all round; I just thought they felt a little bit cheap, but that's subjective.

Don't underestimate the New Ninja 650. It's lost 40lbs of weight this year, has better rear suspension, and it's faired so you get the wind protection (I do think it makes a big difference if you're on the highway a lot). If you like the ergos of the 250 and just want more grunt, you can't go wrong with the 650.

If you've got a lot of miles on the 250 I wouldn't worry about power on bigger bikes. It's nice to have it but if you like the smaller displacement bikes you probably appreciate the other things about riding.

[JohnnyBravo]

My speedometer said I did over 100... I'm good with a 300

[Sulman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

My speedometer said I did over 100... I'm good with a 300

I love mine, don't think I'll ever get rid of it. The only thing I miss on a bigger bike is a better 50-80 roll-on, but the upside is I don't tend to get silly with passes in group rides, which is where larger bikes have a notable advantage.

["A"]

Want to get good at riding?
Keep your Ninja 250 and just learn to ride the piss out of it.
Even as a track bike, Ninja 250 can be very potent with a capable rider.
Extra cc just make up for lack of riding skill.
Spend quality time in the saddle and learn to ride it to its capabilities.

[CaliGrrl]

[QUOTE="A";1177460]
Extra cc just make up for lack of riding skill.
Spend quality time in the saddle and learn to ride it to its capabilities.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Purple"]I've said the same thing! With a bigger bike, you don't have to be quite so precise with the gear/RPM/speed relationship, but I'm not sure that's a good thing. [/COLOR]

[Sulman]

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

I've said the same thing! With a bigger bike, you don't have to be quite so precise with the gear/RPM/speed relationship, but I'm not sure that's a good thing.

Litre bikes on the street are a bit like a scooter on crack. You can leave them in second gear if you want. The acceleration is thrilling, but I miss the rider involvement.

[Triple Jim]

It's interesting that the motorcycle I'm thinking about for myself is an FZ-07. The FZ-09 is only slightly heavier, but has lots more power. It also doesn't go anywhere near as far on a gallon of gas, and the 07 has all the power I'd want on the street.

I just spent a week at the 2-stroke meet with my '72 H2, and I opened the throttle and took it through the powerband in 2nd and 3rd exactly once the whole week. If a cop had noticed me, I probably would be without my license now, because I was going something well over 100. The more I ride, the more I believe that stuff needs to stay on the track.

[Racer x]

I have a good friend that went from a long time 250 rider first a 2007 and then to a 2010 and wanted a bigger bike. He is over six foot tall and just wanted a bigger bike for that reason. He looked at the fz07 but went to the Fz 09 because it was not that much more in price. He is a careful older rider that commutes daily and said he loves it

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a sec.

[Sulman]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I have a good friend that went from a long time 250 rider first a 2007 and then to a 2010 and wanted a bigger bike. He is over six foot tall and just wanted a bigger bike for that reason. He looked at the fz07 but went to the Fz 09 because it was not that much more in price. He is a careful older rider that commutes daily and said he loves it

I thought the FZ-09 was an unusual fit. The pegs feel quite low, with the bars close, compared to e.g. a Ducati Monster. The tank is sharply flared toward the top so you can really pull your legs in.

That engine is addictive, though. It's got a bit of the devil in it.

[adouglas]

@backinthesaddleagain

[DannoXYZ]

I second the vote for a CB500 series bike. It bridges power-output just in between a Ninjette and the Supersports. Yet still light enough to be fun, but not so heavy it needs to be man-handled like the Supersports. Sure I'm faster at the track (or anywhere else for that matter) on my CBR600RR than the Ninjette. But I don't have as much fun.

[Racer x]

Agree
The new cbr 500 is super

[MrAtom]

I still have no plans to get rid of the ninjette or even get a new bike, but this thread has been exactly what I wanted it to be; a little clarification if I'm wrong, different viewpoints, opinions, ideas, and great conversation.

This does make me realize something. What I want out of my ninjette, it gives me, aside from highway-torquiness for easier and safer passing. I don't even think I want a supersport. I think I'll probably end up with a Yamaha Bolt when I get a different bike, and keep the ninjette. I haven't always been a fan of cruisers, but damn that's a good looking bike with potential.

If I ever decide I want to corner faster eventually (which, will be on a track after my tiny crash; it only takes me one time), I'd get better suspension bits and whatnot that's more suited to the heavy American I am vs the small Japanese I'm not.

Thank all of you for your input, and keep it coming if you've got more

[Triple Jim]

Eek! A Bolt? Please ride one, and also ride an FZ-07, and post your experiences with those two.

[MrAtom]

Is that a good eek or a bad eek?

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

Is that a good eek or a bad eek?

I think that was a BIG eek!!!

[AwDang]

I'm going to dissent on the Honda 500's. As a commuter or 1up touring bike the 500X might be ok. The "R" definetly has zero sport qualities about it. The motor is flat and lifeless with a silly low redline. I'd rather ride a ninjette on the street than that poser. Yes, i owned one for 2 whole mos and even tracked it once.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

Is that a good eek or a bad eek?

Well, a Bolt would not be a motorcycle I'd want, but obviously you might feel differently. I don't like the cruiser seating position, and I'm not interested in a 540 lb. motorcycle with 49 horsepower and a quarter mile time of 14.5 seconds.

The FZ-07 is pretty much the opposite, being a 397 lb. (wet) motorcycle with 75 hp, decent handling, and a very reasonable price. Its quarter mile time is 12.06 seconds, and it would probably be a lot of fun on a track.