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Old July 4th, 2018, 12:49 AM   #1
$wim
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06 250r bogs and dies

So on my way to work I was turning a corner and upshifted into secon and went for about a quarter mile and it started bogging out and died. Did the same thing in 3rd gear. Bike only keeps from bogging out in first. Any suggestions?
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Old July 4th, 2018, 06:04 AM   #2
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There are many possibilities. To start, how much gasoline is in the tank? It may sound like a silly question, but the symptoms are very much like what happens when you need to change the petcock to "reserve" and look for fuel.
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Old July 4th, 2018, 11:36 AM   #3
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Thought of that prtcocks on reserve and Iíve got 3/4 full tank
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Old July 4th, 2018, 11:42 AM   #4
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Measure vacuum in petcock diaphragm hose.
Messure leak rate of diaphram.
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Old July 4th, 2018, 11:51 AM   #5
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Yes, those are next steps, but you don't have to measure the leak rate, just suck on the vacuum line to the petcock, block it with your tongue, and see if it holds the vacuum.

You can just feel the vacuum on the hose with the engine running, and the hose connected to the carb to check to see if it's present as well. The petcock doesn't take much vacuum to open.

Also, if there's an inline fuel filter, check to see if that's clear. Same with the tank screens (on petcock input tubes, inside tank).

Another possible source of the trouble is a clogged gas cap vent. That's a known problem that can do what's happening to you. That one usually lets you get a few miles down the road before there's enough vacuum in the tank to stop flow.
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Old July 4th, 2018, 01:48 PM   #6
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Yes, but without lots of previous experience, how would you know how much vacuum is necessary? I had similar problem where bike would run for 30-seconds and completely fall flat on its face when I got to track and opened it up. Turned out I had looped petcock hose just right so that when I laid tank down, it would pinch and kink hose. Just barely enough vacuum go through to barely open petcock enough for idle & low-load flow. As soon as I gave it more throttle, gas-flow wasn't enough and bike almost threw me over bars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
Another possible source of the trouble is a clogged gas cap vent. That's a known problem that can do what's happening to you. That one usually lets you get a few miles down the road before there's enough vacuum in the tank to stop flow.
Yes, the infamous hissing whining squealing tank!!!
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Old July 4th, 2018, 04:41 PM   #7
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Thanks for all the advice I will take notes and get to work tonight
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Old July 7th, 2018, 10:51 PM   #8
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So after doing everything mentioned just checking things tightened a few hose clamps and got a new hose clamp for the petcock vacuum line it runs just fine now, although Iím not sure exactly what caused the problem, Iím happy itís gone
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Old July 10th, 2018, 11:48 PM   #9
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And just like that after I changed the oil the problem is back and worse
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Old July 11th, 2018, 06:42 AM   #10
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Sounds like restricted fuel flow for some reason.

Did you check everything mentioned above? Do you get gas to flow out of the petcock when you apply vacuum to the hose?

Is the tank clean inside? There are screens on the petcock that can clog, and an inline filter at the carb inlet as well.

Fuel filters - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do...fuel_filter%3F

Petcock info - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Rebuil...tcock/fuel_tap
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Old July 11th, 2018, 10:14 AM   #11
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Also when I sucked on the vacuum line there didn’t seem to be any vacuum in the line at all
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Old July 11th, 2018, 11:53 AM   #12
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So you're saying that when you apply suction to the petcock vacuum line you can't get it to load up with negative pressure and hold it?

Well, your '06 EX250's petcock is 12 years old now, maybe it's failing. Like thermostats and water pumps and other "consumables" these things don't last forever, although some last longer than others.
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Old July 11th, 2018, 01:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $wim View Post
Also when I sucked on the vacuum line there didn’t seem to be any vacuum in the line at all
If you mean you couldn't get a vacuum, then either the line or the petcock diaphragm has a hole in it.

Get a new line and see if that changes it, if not it sounds like you need a petcock or rebuild kit. Both are fairly expensive.

We installed a manual (no vacuum shut-off) ebay petcock on one of our Ninjas, and it sucked. It didn't reach down far enough to clear the tank, so when you had to turn it off you had to reach up under the seam of the tank, which was a pain.

I'd recommend an original one or rebuild kit.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 10:03 PM   #14
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Unfortunately it isnít the line, looks like I may need a new petcock
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Old July 13th, 2018, 11:23 AM   #15
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After further messing around I realized the vacuum to the petcock is fine and working, I was trying to build up negative pressure on the carb lol
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Old July 13th, 2018, 11:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $wim View Post
After further messing around I realized the vacuum to the petcock is fine and working, I was trying to build up negative pressure on the carb lol
Did you check the small in-line filter in the fuel line at the carb inlet?

Have you checked the air filter condition and airbox inlet for a blockage?

Any progress on getting it running right?
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Old July 13th, 2018, 11:40 AM   #17
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Draining the tank and bout to check those, didn’t think of the air box at all
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Old July 13th, 2018, 12:19 PM   #18
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Not really much progress, have pretty much ruled out the petcock tho, tank is off and drained also when I get back I’ll be taking out the air box
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Old July 13th, 2018, 12:25 PM   #19
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As previously mentioned, there are two screens which may be clogged.

1. above petcock in tank. Measure flow-rate from petcock when vacuum applied to activation port. Flow rate will tell you if it's moving gas quickly enough to keep pace with carb demands.

2. other screen is inside fuel-line going to carb-inlet. Since it's so small, doesn't take much to cause restriction.


Don't leave anything to chance, remove both screens, inspect and blow them out backwards to clear.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 01:11 PM   #20
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Do pregens have the small filter at the carb? I don't remember mine having that, and I thought only newgens have it.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 01:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
Do pregens have the small filter at the carb? I don't remember mine having that, and I thought only newgens have it.
Yeah they have it, or at least mine has it
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Old July 13th, 2018, 01:43 PM   #22
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Also check your vent tube and make sure it's clear. Bent and crimped vent tube will also cause symptoms like what you're experiencing.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 01:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $wim View Post
Not really much progress, have pretty much ruled out the petcock tho, tank is off and drained also when I get back Iíll be taking out the air box
Did you mean taking the air filter out? That's something easy to check.

Here are some tips - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do...r_filter(s)%3F
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Old July 18th, 2018, 09:41 PM   #24
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So after further investigating I found that one of my cylinders isn’t firing, oddly enough this problem happened after cleaning the carbs and now that I think about it I know I didn’t sync them. I’m thinking that’s not a coincidence because I have fuel leaking out of my right exhaust
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Old July 19th, 2018, 03:31 AM   #25
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Once you get running you are going to need another oil change. If you got fuel out the exhaust you have oil diluted with gasoline.

Good luck in getting it sorted.
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Old July 19th, 2018, 06:36 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $wim View Post
So after further investigating I found that one of my cylinders isnít firing, oddly enough this problem happened after cleaning the carbs and now that I think about it I know I didnít sync them. Iím thinking thatís not a coincidence because I have fuel leaking out of my right exhaust
Sounds like a carb issue on the fuel leaking part, but do you have spark on the dead cylinder - or no fuel?

Most likely the carbs need to come off and be gone through again, but you may be getting debris from the tank that is getting stuck under the float valve and dumping fuel. Maybe one is stuck open and the other is stuck closed or the jets are plugged.

Check the condition of the tank, screens on the petcock, and the small inline filter at the carb inlet.

Carb info - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake
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Old July 19th, 2018, 06:37 AM   #27
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Yeah, out-of-sync won't cause non-firing cylinder. Which could be issue if you've got gas coming out. Check for spark on that side. Although that wouldn't cause liquid fuel, you've probably got stuck-open float valve.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; July 19th, 2018 at 08:14 AM.
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Old July 19th, 2018, 03:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Yeah, out-of-sync won't cause non-firing cylinder. Which could be issue if you've got gas coming out. Check for spark on that side. Although that wouldn't cause liquid fuel, you've probably got stuck-open float valve.
Would this cause my 250 to be running all ******?
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Old July 19th, 2018, 06:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $wim View Post
Would this cause my 250 to be running all ******?
Yikers! You're completely missing needle jet!!! A lot of times, people have problems by putting them in backwards, but to be gone would definitely cause problems!!!

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Old July 19th, 2018, 10:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Yikers! You're completely missing needle jet!!! A lot of times, people have problems by putting them in backwards, but to be gone would definitely cause problems!!!

Iíll be putting the carbs back on tomorrow, so Iíll have another update then
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Old July 20th, 2018, 06:28 AM   #31
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Quote:
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Would this cause my 250 to be running all ******?
Sure would.

As Danno noted - the Pilot Jet is missing.

Look over the carb info I posted carefully. I would also "bench sync" the carbs while they are off - not sure if it covers that.

Remove all of the jets and the idle mixture screws. Check the o-rings on the screws, and set them to 2.5 turn out as a base.

Report back.
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Old July 20th, 2018, 08:46 AM   #32
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Sure would.

As Danno noted - the Pilot Jet is missing.

Look over the carb info I posted carefully. I would also "bench sync" the carbs while they are off - not sure if it covers that.

Remove all of the jets and the idle mixture screws. Check the o-rings on the screws, and set them to 2.5 turn out as a base.

Report back.
Carbs look like theyíre perfectly sync in my opinion, Iíll post a pic later
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Old July 20th, 2018, 01:39 PM   #33
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DId you find missing needle jet?
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Old July 20th, 2018, 03:38 PM   #34
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DId you find missing needle jet?
Yes I found it, after putting it all back together and what not rode good then on my way back from Walmart itís started backfiring and died, thoughts?
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Old July 20th, 2018, 04:00 PM   #35
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Typically when it works right then clogs up, usually means blockage has moved.

Suspect carb needs further disassembly down to last components and fuel-circuits flossed and cleared.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=317977
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Old July 20th, 2018, 04:03 PM   #36
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Typically when it works right then clogs up, usually means blockage has moved.

Suspect carb needs further disassembly down to last components and fuel-circuits flossed and cleared.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=317977
Alrighty, imma try some sea foam first
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Old July 20th, 2018, 04:22 PM   #37
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Alrighty, imma try some sea foam first
Sure, but you're gonna have to be disassembling yet another time after that. Guys who can rebuild engines on kitchen countres with their teeth and both hands tied behind their backs have had to disassemble carbs 4-5x before getting it right. Might as well do 100% job once.

Solvent you really want to use is something with healthy dose of PEA - poly-ether-amine. This is in Red Line SI-1, Techron Concentrate. Anything else without will not work very well (you might as well use spit).
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Old July 20th, 2018, 04:34 PM   #38
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Alrighty, imma try some sea foam first
Seafoam is way overrated. Techron can help if things aren't too far gone, but with the symptoms you described, things are probably too far gone.
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Old July 20th, 2018, 07:58 PM   #39
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I like Techron as well (run a tank each spring in every vehicle).

It will keep things clean, and might loosen-up something that's sticking, but it's not going to fix any major blockages or heavy internal varnish.
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Old July 20th, 2018, 08:30 PM   #40
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You're right, Jay. On the other hand, and I've told this story before, but... spring of 2017 my Stihl chainsaw had a clogged carb. It had been getting worse for a couple years, and by then I had to keep adjusting the low and high speed screws but it was never right, it would die in the middle of a cut, it wouldn't idle reliably like it would when new, was hard to start, etc.. I mixed up a can of gas with maybe 1-1/2 times the minimum concentration of Techron recommended, so nothing severe, put it in the tank, cut a couple logs, and left it overnight. The next day I had to close both low and high speed screws back to the recommended settings, it idled perfectly, etc., and it cut about six cords of firewood flawlessly. So Techron completely fixed it overnight.

I'm very sure this won't always work, but on the other hand, I've never had any fuel additive do anything close to what it claimed, other than Techron.

From the MSDS, Seafoam has nothing special in it at all. You can check for yourself.
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