Bay Area Ride: Mt Hamilton/Mines Rd Ride - August 6th

[Alex]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

Oregon is a LOOOONG ass ride. I drove up to Medford last year and that's 6 hours non-stop just to the edge of OR.

For the 2009 Cal24, there was mongo bonus at a location in Portland, OR. I made it up there and back from San Jose, CA, along with another few bonuses within 24 hrs. 1450 miles or so.

[CThunder-blue]

That's a crazy ride Alex. I'm guessing you ride your R1200T for these CAL24's?

[Alex]

For the past few years, yes. But I did complete a Cal24 on a ZX-12R a few years back, and finished well. It's less fun on a sportbike.

[AlanDog]

Originally Posted by YORCHI

anyone from Sacramento or anywhere close to Sac going?

I want to go but not alone...it will wind up being a completely all day thing and I am not ready to be out on a bike alone for an entire day

I plan to head down there via 80/680 from Woodland and take the backroads from Livermore back up to Woodland/Sac:

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=72...10&via=1,2&z=9

Give me a call if you want to try to meet up in Davis around 7:30am?
530 848 and then 8111

[Alex]

Wifey and little monster will likely join for some donuts in the morning.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Alex

Wifey and little monster will likely join for some donuts in the morning.

Coolio. See you there bright and early.

[eds2fitty]

damn schedule didn't work out for me =( anyways, have a fun and safe ride guys, really wish i could've joined you guys for this... hopefully this isn't the last meet/ride before summer officially ends...

[rusninja]

have fun guys!

[Alex]

Well that was fun! Tri has all of the good group pics, so hopefully some of them will make it up here as well. Here are a few of mine:



GaryJ made it out with us! (Left to right: GaryJ, Eugene, Andre)





Gallery link to all of my pics.

There was a little excitement on the ride, but luckily it was limited to some relatively minor bike repairs rather than any people repairs. Good meeting everyone, and we should clearly do this more often.

[Sushilover]

Originally Posted by Alex

GaryJ made it out with us!

Hi Alex, could i borrow/steal this picture for my Facebook?

[Alex]

Of course, Andre! You can get the full-res version from that link to my gallery.

[Sushilover]

Originally Posted by Alex

Of course, Andre! You can get the full-res version from that link to my gallery.

Thank you Alex, i'll make sure to label that you took the photo in the description on Facebook!

[Sushilover]

Here are a couple of the photos I took during the ride today.







The link to all of the photos can be found at my Picasa album

[setasai]

I just want to thank everybody that came out with us to the ride. There were parts of the ride that were great, no doubt about that but because this was my first group ride, I have learned a few things as OP and organizer.

While I completely enjoy and encourage having the more advanced riders out with us, I think it made some of the newer riders a little stressed. Especially since it's a road that is quite challenging with several obstacles (sinkholes, gravel, rocks, narrow roads, hairpins, switchbacks, decreasing radius turns, and not to mention most of them are blind). I think that if I were to organize another ride for newer riders like myself, I would change a few things. First, the lead would set a much slower pace so that it would be a less agressive ride. Faster riders are welcome to move along past the lead of the group to the meet point. Second, possibly a smaller group or splitting a larger group making it faster riders in one with their own lead and sweeper with the slower riders with their own lead and sweeper. Third, seeing armor in action is a huge eye opener and while we tend to not have this issue, everybody should be geared up as much as possible.

Also, thank you Alex and GaryJ for coming out with us. It is great to meet the man behind it all and I must say, you guys are FAST! (Edit: Forgot to mention your sense of humor is too fast for me too... I never know how to react to the things you say.)

P.S. Hopefully Tri's wife will let him ride again.

[Alex]

I dunno Brian - I agree with some of this, and disagree with some as well. IMO - a group ride is no different than a solo ride when it comes to the most basic rule: don't ride over one's head. The difference, of course, is that in a group ride there is this natural temptation to try and follow the rider directly in front of you, sometimes right past one's own comfort limits. The problem that crops up isn't the fault of the group ride (or its leader, or its sweep, or anyone else), it's that individual rider letting that temptation get the best of them.

The best way to handle that in a group ride is to make sure that people know they won't be left behind. And from a rider's perspective, it's important to always know where you're going and where the next meeting point is. As challenging as Mt. Hamilton/Mines can be, one thing that it is supreme on is its navigational simplicity. It's utterly impossible to get lost. If you lose the rider in front of you, keep going until you see them again. There are no intersections, there are no complicated directions, it's as simple as that. Someone who idles along at well below the speed limit can still have fun on a ride like this, with a group that will always be waiting at the next meet-up point. This can be emphasized more at the ride start, and we likely could all have been much clearer about this early this morning. There's never a need for anyone to ever feel any undue stress.

In a group ride that does go over more complicated routes, it is key to make sure that people understand how to wait for the rider behind them at intersections. If everyone follows this basic rule, and trusts that everyone else will, then there is that much less worry and concern for newer riders to worry about getting lost and left behind. That confidence that they will be A-OK as long as they keep progressing at whatever speed they choose is important. And of course - a sweep is never a bad idea.

The best group rides tend to be ones that feel like solo rides that happen to have other people along to share the fun. All riders should retain the flexibility to move along at whatever pace they are comfortable with, and in all likelihood, they will find another rider or several riders who are on the same wavelength anyway.

[Jiggles]

Man I wish I could have come. So whens the next one???

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Alex

I dunno Brian - I agree with some of this, and disagree with some as well. IMO - a group ride is no different than a solo ride when it comes to the most basic rule: don't ride over one's head. The difference, of course, is that in a group ride there is this natural temptation to try and follow the rider directly in front of you, sometimes right past one's own comfort limits. The problem that crops up isn't the fault of the group ride (or its leader, or its sweep, or anyone else), it's that individual rider letting that temptation get the best of them.

The best way to handle that in a group ride is to make sure that people know they won't be left behind. And from a rider's perspective, it's important to always know where you're going and where the next meeting point is. As challenging as Mt. Hamilton/Mines can be, one thing that it is supreme on is its navigational simplicity. It's utterly impossible to get lost. If you lose the rider in front of you, keep going until you see them again. There are no intersections, there are no complicated directions, it's as simple as that. Someone who idles along at well below the speed limit can still have fun on a ride like this, with a group that will always be waiting at the next meet-up point. This can be emphasized more at the ride start, and we likely could all have been much clearer about this early this morning. There's never a need for anyone to ever feel any undue stress.

In a group ride that does go over more complicated routes, it is key to make sure that people understand how to wait for the rider behind them at intersections. If everyone follows this basic rule, and trusts that everyone else will, then there is that much less worry and concern for newer riders to worry about getting lost and left behind. That confidence that they will be A-OK as long as they keep progressing at whatever speed they choose is important. And of course - a sweep is never a bad idea.

The best group rides tend to be ones that feel like solo rides that happen to have other people along to share the fun. All riders should retain the flexibility to move along at whatever pace they are comfortable with, and in all likelihood, they will find another rider or several riders who are on the same wavelength anyway.

You make some very valid points but I think that newer riders are inherently more prone to the "must catch up" syndrome of group riding. I for one have no problem setting my own pace and I knew that the group would be waiting at the next checkpoint but I think it is more than a solo ride with people. I think a group ride is truely an opportunity to show riders a new location and add new routes to their own personal repertoir. For example, I am extremely delighted that you mentioned stopping at The Junction. I definitely see myself going there again in the future but I would have never thought of stopping there on a solo ride and would have likely skipped that place if it wasnt on our checkpoint list.

I also agree that as organizer, I should have been more assertive and clearer with how the ride will be from the start. Every experience is a learning experience. How long is recoup time? Next group ride in 1.5-2months? Maybe big sur?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by setasai

I for one have no problem setting my own pace and I knew that the group would be waiting at the next checkpoint but I think it is more than a solo ride with people. I think a group ride is truely an opportunity to show riders a new location and add new routes to their own personal repertoir. For example, I am extremely delighted that you mentioned stopping at The Junction. I definitely see myself going there again in the future but I would have never thought of stopping there on a solo ride and would have likely skipped that place if it wasnt on our checkpoint list.

I totally agree. That is exactly what makes group rides so fun, as we can share routes and experiences that we might never run across randomly on our own.

What I mean by "solo ride with people" is more of a mindset/attitude of the actual riding experience itself. There's only one person at the controls, and they are solely responsible for their safety, but just as importantly, of how much enjoyment they are getting out of the ride. The pace they choose, the other bikes they choose to stay close to, the times they decide to hang back, or even to take a break along the way, all of these are always within our control; that's what I meant. Being on a group ride doesn't change those responsibilities, or opportunities.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Alex

I totally agree. That is exactly what makes group rides so fun, as we can share routes and experiences that we might never run across randomly on our own.

What I mean by "solo ride with people" is more of a mindset/attitude of the actual riding experience itself. There's only one person at the controls, and they are solely responsible for their safety, but just as importantly, of how much enjoyment they are getting out of the ride. The pace they choose, the other bikes they choose to stay close to, the times they decide to hang back, or even to take a break along the way, all of these are always within our control; that's what I meant. Being on a group ride doesn't change those responsibilities, or opportunities.

Haha, I get the feeling that we're on the same page but describing it completely differently. Go figure... I call generation gap?

Although I do believe that having a slower pace set for those that are unsure of their abilities could help them regulate and prevent those "oh crap too fast" moments. I only say this because if I hadnt used the GPS to warn me of upcoming hairpins, my braking and incoming speeds could have been very different. Or I might have riding tortoise level speeds the entire way.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by setasai

Haha, I get the feeling that we're on the same page but describing it completely differently. Go figure... I call generation gap?

Damn youngin's.

Originally Posted by setasai

Although I do believe that having a slower pace set for those that are unsure of their abilities could help them regulate and prevent those "oh crap too fast" moments. I only say this because if I hadnt used the GPS to warn me of upcoming hairpins, my braking and incoming speeds could have been very different. Or I might have riding tortoise level speeds the entire way.

I don't think that any motorcyclist should need a rider in front of them to regulate their speed to keep them out of trouble. If a rider couldn't navigate the road in complete safety when they were totally alone, there's nothing about a group ride that makes it any safer for them, other than there are now people around to both call for help and take pictures of any mishaps. I don't mean that it's a bad idea to have faster groups, slower groups, whatever groups, and I think that those tend to form naturally anyway. People shouldn't feel the need to ride any faster (or slower) than they feel comfortable and safe doing. If they are truly relying on the person in front to help provide significant guidance on what speeds are appropriate, things are already in a somewhat tenuous place, IMO.

But, and this is a big but, all of this is simply my opinion. I know that there are people that see this a little differently, and believe that newbie group rides should be much more locked down, with everything from front to back is boiled down to the lowest common denominator for safety. I disagree with that approach, and I think in some ways it may give a false of security to some, but that doesn't mean that philosophy is not out there and there aren't rides set up exactly like that.

[rusninja]

Nice pics i like looking at them looks fun. x]

[bluepoof]

I'm glad to see there was a blue pre-gen representing!

"armor in action" sounds scary -- what happened??

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Alex

I don't think that any motorcyclist should need a rider in front of them to regulate their speed to keep them out of trouble. If a rider couldn't navigate the road in complete safety when they were totally alone, there's nothing about a group ride that makes it any safer for them, other than there are now people around to both call for help and take pictures of any mishaps. If they are truly relying on the person in front to help provide significant guidance on what speeds are appropriate, things are already in a somewhat tenuous place, IMO.

Not so much regulate but moreso a opinionated warning. A quick blink of the brakes sometimes is all it takes to keep focused.

Originally Posted by Alex

I know that there are people that see this a little differently, and believe that newbie group rides should be much more locked down, with everything from front to back is boiled down to the lowest common denominator for safety. I disagree with that approach, and I think in some ways it may give a false of security to some, but that doesn't mean that philosophy is not out there and there aren't rides set up exactly like that.

I definitely dont agree with that approach either. Every rider is an individual and needs to be responsible for themselves. Although groups of fast/slow/medium will separate naturally, new riders are just that, new. A little notification to say that "hey this is a newbie group, if you feel unsure of your skills, this pack of riders is taking it extra easy".

Again, I think we are on the same page for the most part. However, I think that as a group of people doing something we enjoy, we could help those that are newer advance while minimizing risks. We encourage gear for protection, I dont see how encouraging accurate speed recognition through example in a group is entirely a bad thing. Maybe not to the extent of "every" aspect of the ride but just a few.

I think both you and I understand each other well enough so I dont have much more to say. It was great seeing you. Hope you'll be able to make our next outing. Anybody have objections to big sur? Might be far for some.

[gary j]

Originally Posted by Alex

There was a little excitement on the ride, but luckily it was limited to some relatively minor bike repairs rather than any people repairs. Good meeting everyone, and we should clearly do this more often.

Thanks to Brian for calling the ride, to Alex for leading in most sections, and thanks to all the fun folks that showed up to make such a big group of Ninja 250's for today's event. It was cool to meet some new people, enjoy those awesome roads, and share some great food and conversation at the lunch stop at "The Junction".

The good news on the excitement part is that thanks to a serious dose of 4th gear clutch slipping to get, and keep, the bike going in slow traffic on the freeway and from stoplight to stoplight in final leg through town on the way to Tri's house, we were able to get the bike home and safe in his garage this afternoon.

Missed not being able to make the reverse run back Mines/Hamilton on the way home that was originally planned, but knowing we dodged the expensive and difficult tow process, it was all good to help out.

Hopefully I can make it out on another Ninja 250 group ride in the future!

P.S. If Tina's on here ...... remember to use that "delete" key on your camera, for that one rather ...... errr ...... no-see photo that was captured late into the day.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by gary j

Thanks to Brian for calling the ride, to Alex for leading in most sections, and thanks to all the fun folks that showed up to make such a big group of Ninja 250's for today's event. It was cool to meet some new people, enjoy those awesome roads, and share some great food and conversation at the lunch stop at "The Junction".

The good news on the excitement part is that thanks to a serious dose of 4th gear clutch slipping to get, and keep, the bike going in slow traffic on the freeway and from stoplight to stoplight in final leg through town on the way to Tri's house, we were able to get the bike home and safe in his garage this afternoon.

Missed not being able to make the reverse run back Mines/Hamilton on the way home that was originally planned, but knowing we dodged the expensive and difficult tow process, it was all good to help out.

Hopefully I can make it out on another Ninja 250 group ride in the future!

P.S. If Tina's on here ...... remember to use that "delete" key on your camera, for that one rather ...... errr ...... no-see photo that was captured late into the day.

Thank you for coming. photo?... Now i'm intrigued!

[Alex]

The alleged photo had to do with that mini-bike-multiple-rider-ferrying-service that was used to great effect. We're confident Tina's picture taking gadget will have had a rare malfunction. Or at least we're hoping.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Alex

The alleged photo had to do with that mini-bike-multiple-rider-ferrying-service that was used to great effect. We're confident Tina's picture taking gadget will have had a rare malfunction. Or at least we're hoping.

Ohhhhhhhh the pocketbike. When you guys pulled up, I was so in shock trying to wrap my head around it. That thing looked and sounded tiny buzzing its way up the hill. It'd be epic if we had a video cam of it.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by bluepoof

I'm glad to see there was a blue pre-gen representing!

"armor in action" sounds scary -- what happened??

Needless to say, the left side of the bike had a stroke and decided it needed to be replaced. haha. Armor did it's job and thank God I upgraded the back foam pad to a CE Dainese back protector.

[AlanDog]

Just speaking for myself, I never felt any pressure to keep up with the lead group, and it was great to have more experienced riders there. To depend on the person in front of you to set your own limits--that just doesn't make sense to me. How are you ever going to take a twisty road alone if you don't ride at your own pace? Maybe just laying that out to everyone at the start of the ride, "Hey, don't feel any pressure to keep up with the person in front of you, just go your own pace." would have been appropriate. What else can you say? As someone at the back with less than 6 months experience I can say we were going at a fun, but very reasonable pace. New people shouldn't feel intimidated showing up for these group rides.

Gary J went above and beyond in helping out! I was also thinking of turning around and heading back to the Junction alone because Mines road was so fun! It was an awesome ride. Thanks all for organizing this!

[setasai]

Originally Posted by AlanDog

Gary J went above and beyond in helping out! I was also thinking of turning around and heading back to the Junction alone because Mines road was so fun! It was an awesome ride. Thanks all for organizing this!

Yes he did. It was extremely nice of him. Glad you had fun. There is great value in that route in both view and challenges. I'd definitely be down to do it again sometime. I wasnt in the mood for a rootbeer float this time so I'll definitely need to get one next time.

[yujayn]

really had a good time riding with you guys...

[gary j]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

Needless to say, the left side of the bike had a stroke and decided it needed to be replaced. haha. Armor did it's job and thank God I upgraded the back foam pad to a CE Dainese back protector.

Glad that you weren't injured in either of the get-offs Tri, and that you were able to ride my bike OK, so that I could nurse your wounded machine safely back to your house at the end of the day.

Hopefully something will be learned from the day's events that will keep you shiny side up on all future Ninja 250 group rides!

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by gary j

Glad that you weren't injured in either of the get-offs Tri, and that you were able to ride my bike OK, so that I could nurse your wounded machine safely back to your house at the end of the day.

Hopefully something will be learned from the day's events that will keep you shiny side up on all future Ninja 250 group rides!

I really appreciate what you did for me and if you ever need anything in return, just let me know . As far as what I learned, I learned I'm not cut out for back road riding. lol. I'm perfectly fine on regular roads and highways. Just no more twisty stuff for me . Everyone has their limits, I now know mine. I'm not saying this in despair though, so don't think I'm down about it . I'll stick to commuting and making parts and decals

[setasai]

Forgot I had this. The one and only picture I took that day. =)


Tri, you got any of those photos uploaded yet?

[Alex]

I'll plan on doing the same route (though in the opposite direction for variety) next Sunday, and all are welcome. Group Ride thread posted right up here.

[bluepoof]

Originally Posted by gary j

either of the get-offs

OK, there are some stories that aren't being told here. "Either"? Plural? What the heck did you guys do up on the hill?

[ninja_sleeper]

Worth it!!!

[Sushilover]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

I really appreciate what you did for me and if you ever need anything in return, just let me know . As far as what I learned, I learned I'm not cut out for back road riding. lol. I'm perfectly fine on regular roads and highways. Just no more twisty stuff for me . Everyone has their limits, I now know mine. I'm not saying this in despair though, so don't think I'm down about it . I'll stick to commuting and making parts and decals

Tri, you shouldn't feel down about what happened, you are a good rider. I wiped really really really hard on my second group (twisty) ride. If you want to read about it, I posted it here . I think that if you do decide to give it another shot, come follow me in the back of the pack, I just cruise on these group rides to enjoy the scenery and the company.

Also, I have posted a video of this ride on YouTube. Enjoy the twisties again when you are up for it, just come hang out with me in the back. If you are willing to sweep me and put up with my slowness I think you will have fun with the social aspects of the ride!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by 250Solace

Tri, you shouldn't feel down about what happened, you are a good rider. I wiped really really really hard on my second group (twisty) ride. If you want to read about it, I posted it here . I think that if you do decide to give it another shot, come follow me in the back of the pack, I just cruise on these group rides to enjoy the scenery and the company.

Also, I have posted a video of this ride on YouTube. Enjoy the twisties again when you are up for it, just come hang out with me in the back. If you are willing to sweep me and put up with my slowness I think you will have fun with the social aspects of the ride!

Link to original page on YouTube.

tbh that looks scary :S :P ima wussy :P id rather go into a gaurd rail then go down the hill :S

[setasai]

Originally Posted by 250Solace

Tri, you shouldn't feel down about what happened, you are a good rider. I wiped really really really hard on my second group (twisty) ride. If you want to read about it, I posted it here . I think that if you do decide to give it another shot, come follow me in the back of the pack, I just cruise on these group rides to enjoy the scenery and the company.

Also, I have posted a video of this ride on YouTube. Enjoy the twisties again when you are up for it, just come hang out with me in the back. If you are willing to sweep me and put up with my slowness I think you will have fun with the social aspects of the ride!

Link to original page on YouTube.

Excellent video. It really captured the essence of having fun on that ride.