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Old March 18th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #1
akshay11
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Downshifting

So I've been riding for 3 days now.. and I'm getting more comfortable on the bike.. upshifting is much smoother and fluid.. but I'm still having some issues with downshifting.
Usually if there's a stop sign/light ahead, what I've been doing is pulling in the clutch and leaving it pulled in until I come to the stop. While I'm 'coasting' to the stop I kick down through the gears to 1st and use the front/back brake to slow down. That's been working fine and all.. but then earlier today I was going ~50mph in 4th gear coming up to a stop light that was red, so I proceeded to do the same method again, but then when I was going at about 30mph the light turned green.. and I was in 2nd gear at that time. So I let out the clutch slowly and the revs kick up and I have to turn the throttle open wide to get it to accelerate.

So does this mean I downshifted to 2nd too early? I haven't really been shifting according to my speed.. just pullign clutch in and kicking all the way down to 1st and coasting to the stop. So when that light turned green and I was going 30mph.. should I have only downshifted to 3rd?
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:02 PM   #2
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You could have upshifted back to third before releasing the clutch. Another thing you could have done is blip the throttle to bring up the rpms before releasing the clutch. My advice is to blip the throttle as you downshift and come to a stop.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:05 PM   #3
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downshift 1 gear, then rev the engine a bit.
release the clutch. repeat until complete stop.

???

profit.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tac12345 View Post
downshift 1 gear, then rev the engine a bit.
release the clutch. repeat until complete stop.

???

profit.
It's the whole blip the throttle concept I don't yet understand. Do I just turn the throttle to get the revs up and then close it when i release the clutch? Or do I hold the throttle open at keep the revs up at the speed I think they should be at when I let out the clutch.

Like 4th gear at 5krpms is 45mph ish I believe on my bike.. so If I'm traveling down the road in 5th gear at say 55mph.. see a stoplight so I start to slow down and am down to 3rd when I see the light turn green.. if I'm going 45mph should I kick up to 4th, rev the engine up to 5k rpms and then close the throttle & let out clutch? Or leave throttle open to maintain 5k rpms as I let clutch out.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:24 PM   #5
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you should never drop 2 or more gear at the same time, unless you have a stop sign. but even in that case... let say you are at 55mph, you see a stop sign, you pull the clutch, drop all the gear until 1st, BUT while braking slowly (lets say you are at 35 mph) your cable clutch snap. your rear wheel will lock, and you will probably loose control.

it might be hard first, but you should practice to only drop 1 gear at a time.
I usualy rev 2000-3000 rpm between each gear.


but no need to do this from 2nd to 1st gear. at that point, you will be almost at a complete stop. just pull the clutch, and go in 1st while stopped or almost stopped.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tac12345 View Post
you should never drop 2 or more gear at the same time, unless you have a stop sign. but even in that case... let say you are at 55mph, you see a stop sign, you pull the clutch, drop all the gear until 1st, BUT while braking slowly (lets say you are at 35 mph) your cable clutch snap. your rear wheel will lock, and you will probably loose control.

it might be hard first, but you should practice to only drop 1 gear at a time.
I usualy rev 2000-3000 rpm between each gear.


but no need to do this from 2nd to 1st gear. at that point, you will be almost at a complete stop. just pull the clutch, and go in 1st while stopped or almost stopped.
ok but the question i have is HOW do you rev that 2-3000.. do you just flick the throttle so the rpms go up 2k, then close the throttle and let the clutch out? or do you hold the throttle open so the rpms stay 2-3k higher while letting the clutch out. I know in reality it's all done less than a second.. just trying to figure out what each hand is doing.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:32 PM   #7
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These are the gear ratios of your 2012 Ninja 650:

One: 39/16 (2.438)
Two: 36/21 (1.714)
Three: 32/24 (1.333)
Four: 30/27 (1.111)
Five: 28/29 (0.966)
Six: 23/27 (0.852)

Those give you a good idea of the relative engine/rear tire turning.

At the very moment that you are downshifting, the turning speed of the rear tire remains more or less constant.

As you downshift from a lower to a higher ration, you need to feed that rear tire with a faster turning engine, in order to keep both in balance.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay11 View Post
do you just flick the throttle so the rpms go up 2k, then close the throttle and let the clutch out?
This is the correct thing to do in your case

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay11 View Post
do you hold the throttle open so the rpms stay 2-3k higher while letting the clutch out.
You do that to do a wheelie but don't try that hehe. you would have to rev 6000rpm or more to have a nice wheelie, but in both case, don't do that lol.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #9
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Taking a look at the manual I just found a chart for downshifting and recommended speed.. good guide to follow?
6->5th at 19mph
5->4 at 15
4->3 at 12
3->2 at 9
2->1 at 9

These seem really low? Is the chart useful?
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay11 View Post
Taking a look at the manual I just found a chart for downshifting and recommended speed.. good guide to follow?
6->5th at 19mph
5->4 at 15
4->3 at 12
3->2 at 9
2->1 at 9

These seem really low? Is the chart useful?
unless you ride like grandma, i would say no. i'm not too familiar with mph, but slowing under 55 i would already be in 5. under 45, in 4, etc... but i don't know how is the 650, and again, i'm not familiar with mph.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 01:43 PM   #11
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Crap you guys are making this sound complicated. Just downshift one gear at a time, letting the clutch out slowly each time.



There's really no need to blip the throttle, (although you do need to shift quickly so that the rpms don't drop). When I'm just cruising and start downshift towards a light I gradually let off on the throttle while I'm downshifting, I usually don't even let off on it while pulling in the clutch as that would cause my bike to slow down rather quickly.


The only time I can think of a use for blabbing the throttle while downshift is if your riding aggressively and need to make sure the back wheel doesn't start to lock up.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisbenji View Post
Crap you guys are making this sound complicated. Just downshift one gear at a time, letting the clutch out slowly each time.
it might sound more simple, but it's not the right way. you are degrading (not sure what's the perfect word here in english..) the clutch too fast by doing that.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay11 View Post
ok but the question i have is HOW do you rev that 2-3000.. do you just flick the throttle so the rpms go up 2k, then close the throttle and let the clutch out? or do you hold the throttle open so the rpms stay 2-3k higher while letting the clutch out. I know in reality it's all done less than a second.. just trying to figure out what each hand is doing.
It is all about hearing engine's rpm's and timing.

Slowing down to a stop, with possible re-acceleration before completing stop:
1) Close throttle (and simultaneously brake if faster deceleration is desired)
2) At about 6K rpm, clutch-in and briefly bleep the throttle.
3) Shift down once while engine rpm's sound high (timing is key here).
4) Clutch-out (and crack the throttle open if synchronization was not perfect and you are dragging rear tire much).
5) Repeat the process to continue the slow down of the bike.

6) If the light suddenly turns to green, just open the throttle and hear what the engine is asking you to do.
7) Up or downshift as needed to put the engine in the 7K~9K rpm's range (between max torque and max power).

Unless your bike has a slipper clutch, increasing the rpm's of the engine for each downshift removes unnecessary stress and wear from the clutch plates, gears, bearings and chain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipper_clutch
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tac12345 View Post
it might sound more simple, but it's not the right way. you are degrading (not sure what's the perfect word here in english..) the clutch too fast by doing that.
I'v never had a problem, I just do whatever feels smooth. I try to shift in a way that keeps me on the clutch for the shortest possible period of time while not causing my passengers to feel the shift.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
It is all about hearing engine's rpm's and timing.

Slowing down to a stop, with possible re-acceleration before completing stop:
1) Close throttle (and simultaneously brake if faster deceleration is desired)
2) At about 6K rpm, clutch-in and briefly bleep the throttle.
3) Shift down once while engine rpm's sound high (timing is key here).
4) Clutch-out (and crack the throttle open if synchronization was not perfect and you are dragging rear tire much).
5) Repeat the process to continue the slow down of the bike.

6) If the light suddenly turns to green, just open the throttle and hear what the engine is asking you to do.
7) Up or downshift as needed to put the engine in the 7K~9K rpm's range (between max torque and max power).

Unless your bike has a slipper clutch, increasing the rpm's of the engine for each downshift removes unnecessary stress and wear from the clutch plates, gears, bearings and chain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipper_clutch
I'm still in breakin period so I've been keeping the revs under 5k lol.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisbenji View Post
Just downshift one gear at a time, letting the clutch out slowly each time.
For your 3 days of riding, ^^^this is where you should be. And don't forget to use the brakes as you hopefully learned during the MSF.

Motofools technique is valid, just more advanced than your 3 days of riding skill will allow.
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:50 PM   #17
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For your 3 days of riding, ^^^this is where you should be. And don't forget to use the brakes as you hopefully learned during the MSF.

Motofools technique is valid, just more advanced than your 3 days of riding skill will allow.
Yeah I'll give that method a try. Everytime I let the clutch out after downshifting a gear, the bike definitely slows down.. but its rather quickly and the bike gets nose heavy. Wasn't sure if this is supposed to happen or If I was doing it wrong, but I think I have been downshifting a bit early so I'll try again. MSF is mid-april-- earliest they offer it in MN
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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #18
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More than enough reason not to do it while turning and leaning the bike: the rear tire will skid on you when the bike suddenly slows down.

Take it easy, stay in your comfort zone and away from heavy traffic and night riding.

Learn the proper technique here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABNrYzqJgI

Best
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