rust rust rust

[Rawr]

ok so i know this has been talked about....but...just about every link on my chain has a spot of rust...im kinda scared...when should i change it...ive been lubing it but i got caught in the rain the other day and it seems to be getting bad....can i stop it?

[pantera]

Not much can be done to stop rust.Darn stuff is like cancer.

[Alex]

How many miles are on the chain right now? I'd at least attempt to try and save it. First thing to do is clean the crap out of the chain. Do you have a rearstand? Makes it much easier. Use a copious amount of WD-40 or kerosene along with a rag, and keep cleaning it until it's spotless. The more WD-40 the better at this point, make sure you have some rags under your bike to catch any excess. Once it's as clean as it can possibly be, let it dry for an hour or two, then lube it back up with your choice of chain lube. With any luck, removing the existing rust, cleaning the chain, and protecting the metal with a new coating of lube will at least help the situation. If it's just a little bit of surface rust, you may get lucky. If it's more significant than that, then perhaps it's too far gone...

[Rawr]

3000 on the chain now...i dont have a rearstand but i plan to have one soon...ill try to get the rust if i can...form my advanced materials class...sometimes rust will for and then stop actually form a barier to more corrosion...but....i doubt that will happen haha...ill try all that

[dmonaco05]

dont use wd-40, as great a cleaner as it is it will actually hurt the chain. http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/motor...chain-cleaner/

8th paragraph

[kkim]

what chain lube are you using?

I love wd40 for cleaninig the chain.

[Alex]

There's unending debate about this topic. Chain lube & chain cleaning discussions are outranked only by "Which Oil" discussions on motorcycle boards. WD-40 has always worked fine for me, I get great life out of my chains, and it cleans up well. Most motorcycle manufacturers as well as chain manufacturers recommend kerosene for chain cleaning, and WD-40 is largely kerosene anyway.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by dmonaco05

dont use wd-40, as great a cleaner as it is it will actually hurt the chain. http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/motor...chain-cleaner/

8th paragraph

So how do motorcyclists clean their chains? I wish I knew... I find it hard to believe that everyone removes their chain every 200 miles and soaks it in kerosene. We always used WD-40 in the shop until an aerospace engineer (who is a chief airplane crash investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board) told us that this wasn't a very good idea because it displaces the grease in the chain's O- or X-rings.

no one is advocating removing the chain and soaking it in wd40 to clean it. that's a lot different than spraying some on and using a rag to get the grease/crap off the external surface of the chain.

[backinthesaddleagain]

i had some rust spots here and there on the side plates at 2000 miles. never ridden in rain, kept in garage, and only washed twice with hose and chain quickly dried. Chain wasn't very dirty. Sprayed rag with wd40 and wiped chain. slow process without a rearstand. coated with maxima chain wax and at 2600 miles it still looks rust free.

[TrueFaith]

+1 on WD-40 for cleaning chains. It's advantages far outweigh it's disadvantages. If you're just noticing a little rust on the chain it's just surface rust that's easily removed. Any chain will quickly begin to show rust if not kept lubricated, but that surface rust is not affecting the performance of the chain. It's when you ignore it and the rust gets into the places you can't see that problems develop.

[Banzai]

When I bought my bike second hand, there was some surface rust on most all of the chain links. The previous owner hadn't really cared much for the chain, other than to constantly spray some oil product on it, so there was fling everywhere, especially inside the front sprocket cover all gelled up with some nasty dirt and road trash. Took forever to clean it out, and in the end I ended up taking off the sprocket cover to get it all cleaned out like it's supposed to be. Since I live less than 20 miles from the ocean, salt air and salty sand are everywhere, so corrosion advances quickly here.

I cleaned my chain with a steel wire toothbrush lubricated with WD40. Each and every link was scrubbed carefully, and yes, it was a long process, but well worth it in the end.

Kerosene is suggested to use to clean the chain because it won't harm the rubber that the o-rings are made from and has a quick flash off. WD40 itself won't harm a chain, but the PROPELLANT in spray WD40 causes the elasticizers in the rubber of the o-rings to leach out, making them brittle and prone to cracking and failure. You'd be surprised how many people (even professionals) believe that it's the WD40 LIQUID iteself, but it's the propellant that they use in the spray can that harms the o-rings and leads to seal failure which allows the thinner WD40 to wash out the thicker grease, the WD40 causes bearing failure, and thus the belief that the LIQUID itself caused the harm when the root cause was the seal failure due to propellant exposure. Identical items treated with WD40 from a NON spray can do not have the same failure issues, and that has been proven time and time again in industry as well.

One demonstration that I saw at a Navy Corrosion Prevention/Treatment class clearly illustrated the point: they stretched a two sets of identical o-rings over two different standard sockets. Not tight, but just enough to keep tension on them. One set got dunked in a glass beaker full of WD40 (light oil) that came from a 1 gallon can and the other got placed on the board next to it and sprayed down with an entire can of spray WD40, close enough that the gas propellant surely got onto the orings. After just one weeks exposure to the sun, the SPRAYED orings were beginning to show surface deterioration and cracking, and the orings that were sill in the beaker full of LIQUID WD40 were as good as new.

I have worked in Naval Aviation on some of the most highly technical jets and helecopters for 20+ years, and propellant deterioration of rubber components is one of the reasons that we went away from spray cans (which was the initiative years and years before the tree huggers wanted hydrocarbon propellants banned, but it was the green initiative that finally got it done). We routinely use THE SAME LIQUIDS as we have for decades, but now it comes in 1 and 5 gallon cans and it's propelled by siphon air guns or in compressed air cannister sets.

That and WD40 is a water displacing light oil, and really provides little to no wear protection as it has a very low film strength and is of such light viscosity that it easily gets washed off, flung off, or succumbs to simple gravity drip. What little remains attracts dirt that works like lapping compound. It's primary use is to displace water in first line corrosion detection/treatment, not to either lubricate moving parts or prevent corrosion. As a cleaning agent, there is no doubt that WD40 on a rag to clean the chain works 100% as it has a high kerosene content, and it's what I use, but I always follow it up with a dry rag wipe down and some real chain wax.

Modern chain waxes use a rubber friendly propellant, go on wet to allow seepage and full coverage, and dry to a thick film with a waxy consistency that acutally resists dirt impregnation, fling, and water intrusion.

Clean your chain and lube on schedule and as instructed with any motorcycle chain wax or your product of choice that doesn't harm your o or x rings(90w gear oil used to be the lube of choice way back in the day before o-ring chains), and you're going to be just fine. Almost a year now, riding in rain, routine swings down by the beach front, and regular washes and waxes, and the rust has never come back.

[kkim]

great post, Thomas!

[lavid2002]

Muratic acid (Hydrochloric) or naval jelly will remove rust. However, after use IMMEDIATELY clean and lube chain to prevent flash rusting.

[ShelbyOne]

When my bike was brand new, this time last year, the chain rusted over completely! I cleaned it, used maxima chain wax, an havn't seen a spot of rust since. I think you'll be fine.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by ShelbyOne

I cleaned it, used maxima chain wax, an havn't seen a spot of rust since. I think you'll be fine.

how did you clean it?

[CodE-E]

A friend of mine recommended me this to take care of my bike's chain:

http://www.kettenmax.at/shop/index.p...X-PREMIUM.html (they've got a video there as well)

He swears by it. It's not all that cheap, and it's a little bit complicated at first (compared to just using a rag and a brush), but it's very thorough at cleaning and lubing the chain from all angles. I'm gonna head out now actually to clean the chain - haven't done so in ~600 km.

[ShelbyOne]

Originally Posted by kkim

how did you clean it?

Oh yeah, I should have mentioned I use Coleman Fuel (white gas) to clean the chain. Evaporates quicker and smells better than Kerosine.
Unfortunately, today I did notice that the chain has stretched a little. Hope I didn't cause that.

[Banzai]

Originally Posted by ShelbyOne

Unfortunately, today I did notice that the chain has stretched a little. Hope I didn't cause that.

In a way, you did! Using the bike as intended, especially when new, stretches the chain. It's a wear part. Admittedly, one with a long wear cycle, but a wear part none the less. New, the chains are pre-tensioned/stressed at the factory, but that's a static load. Used on your bike as intended with the dynamic forces all in play, it will take another initial set, then stabilize just fine. As long as your chain is cleaned properly and the tension is kept within spec, it will probably last the average rider the life of the bike.

[Sailariel]

Originally Posted by Banzai

In a way, you did! Using the bike as intended, especially when new, stretches the chain. It's a wear part. Admittedly, one with a long wear cycle, but a wear part none the less. New, the chains are pre-tensioned/stressed at the factory, but that's a static load. Used on your bike as intended with the dynamic forces all in play, it will take another initial set, then stabilize just fine. As long as your chain is cleaned properly and the tension is kept within spec, it will probably last the average rider the life of the bike.

Thomas,I agree with you on the WD-40 liquid. I get the stuff by the gallon at Home Depot. I have a bicycle shop, and my customers frequently complain of rust issues--particularly since we are on the Maine Coast--salt air and all. There is a product calles Corrosion-X, available in marine stores. After cleaning my chains with WD-40, I apply Corrosion-X, wait a half an hour, and then wipe down the chain. I then apply Maxxima Chain Wax. End of rust. I have never seen a chain rust after that treatment--bicycle or motorcycle. The Maxxima Chain Wax is WONDERFUL on my 30 SP Merckx. The bicycle is completely silent and shifts like a witch. Armstrong should use the stuff.

[Rocketman]

Really glad you found this site Thomas....your full of good information.

[Banzai]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

Really glad you found this site Thomas....your full of good information.

Thanks, it comes from 20+ years of an aviation maintenance background. Perhaps I should post something up in the "introduce youself" section......

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Banzai

Thanks, it comes from 20+ years of an aviation maintenance background. Perhaps I should post something up in the "introduce youself" section......

that would be great!

don't forget to add yourself to the member's map while you're at it. glad to have another helpful source to the board.

[bogdanb]

What about this ?



It has been highly recommended to me.

[backinthesaddleagain]

also chain stretch on a 250 should be less than on a higher hp bike. granted the higher hp bike has a heavier duty chain, but beyond initial stretch a clean and lubed chain should last many miles on the 250 (barring smokeshows).