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Old July 24th, 2013, 08:48 AM   #161
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You should compare the wiring diagram for your particular bike to that of a 2009. I don't see why it wouldn't work. If you decide to do it, make sure and get a CDI from a non-California bike!
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Old July 25th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #162
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great info here and thanks for the post
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Old November 4th, 2016, 07:50 AM   #163
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Hey guys, I know this is an old thread but it seems to be the biggest/most informative on this topic. I just put a 88-94 cdi in my 2012 ninja 250, and had a couple questions and comments on it. I did it mainly to fix the tach issue of reading higher rpms on warmer days but went with the 88-94 part after reading on here about the timing advance compared to the newer cdi's. I made a jumper connector to plug in to the factory harness and the older cdi so I wouldn't have to cut into or alter the factory wiring in any way. I only got to ride it around town for 45 min or so but it definitely seemed to pull harder and through a wider range of rpms. I didn't take it on the highway yet so my experience at this point is up to about 50 mph. It's too cold here now to tell if it fixed the tach issue but it did idle lower. Also the kickstand switch now kills the motor even if it's in neutral, the only "fix" I've seen so far is to bypass it so it seems I can either have the kickstand kill the motor every time or never. My only real concern is does the advanced timing have any negative effect on the engine? Shortened engine life or anything? From what I've gathered on here as long as I use something above 87 octane I shouldn't be in danger of any pinging so I made sure the tank was full of 93 before I did it. Basically just wondering if there's anything else I should know or be concerned about, thank you all for the information in here.
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Old November 6th, 2016, 09:56 PM   #164
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I considered doing this a while ago, and now I'm considering it again.

From my research -- this is my understanding. Could be wrong, it's all hearsay on the internet..

Quote:
The stock 2009~2012 ignition timing is set at 10 degrees [advance] BTDC up to 4k rpms, 35 degrees [advance] up until the rev limiter.


The stock _-2008 ignition timing is set at 13 degrees [advance] BTDC up to 4.2k rpms, 42 degrees [advance] up until the rev limiter.
If this information is indeed correct -- it means that the older CDI/igniter units have more aggressive timing advance.

@Schweedo -- a more aggressive ignition timing map could result in predetonation or 'pinging' also known as engine knock. Based on my experience with larger displacement inline-4 car engines, more timing advance means the engine sparks sooner before TDC. Too much timing advance can cause the air/fuel mixture to ignite prematurely while the piston is still travelling upward on the combustion stroke. A severe case of predetonation can destroy rod/main bearings in an instant due to the force of premature ignition of the air/fuel mixture trying to push the piston downward while the rotation of the crankshaft is still trying to push the piston upward toward TDC.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 08:28 AM   #165
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Thanks for the reply @corksil, kinda bringing this one back from the dead. I've put a couple hundred miles on it now since the swap, freeway riding and all, and I would definitely suggest doing it if you're already considering it. It's my understanding that the higher octane gas helps prevent predetonation/pinging and I don't believe I've had any using the 93 so far, assuming it's something I would be able to hear/feel.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 09:14 AM   #166
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Consider that RacerX's experiments w/ advanced ignition timing (using the BRT CDI) has shown 100 (or 93) to work well in our engines https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...t=26765&page=3

Also consider that the pregen bikes that the CDIs came from use 87.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 10:19 AM   #167
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I was just slightly concerned with mine being an otherwise stock bike and not knowing a lot about this stuff. After putting some miles on it I'm not worried, it's running great!
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Old November 7th, 2016, 09:18 PM   #168
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Yeah I ordered a used igniter on ebay last night after making that post ^^ for 40 bucks it's worth a try.

If anyone wants to know my impression of the changes, PM me or bump this thread in a week.

New SSR gas cap went on today.. Was having issues with the OEM one and the SSR one was 1/10th the weight. If anyone wants a coupon code for slingshot, PM me.

Stiffer clutch springs yesterday and new friction plates this morning.. should have time to install it all once the CDI shows up along with a replacement rectifier and then it's off to the races.
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Old February 22nd, 2018, 08:54 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corksil View Post
If anyone wants to know my impression of the changes, PM me or bump this thread in a week.
Ok, maybe more than week...

So what’s your impression of the pregen ignitor mod?
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Old February 22nd, 2018, 10:35 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer x View Post
The important thing about the wiring is.You must get a wiring harness from the same year as the CDI . The diagrams do not show the pin positions .and they are all different.

I rode with the 88-94 ICU box and even raced it at the drag strip . I never got a chance to take it to Maxton . But having the 15000 rpm rev limit was not a problem . The engine dose not make power past 12000 rpm and you would only be able to get the engine that high in the lower gears. even then you would have to really mean to do it.

I tried shifting at 14000 rpm and went slower in the 1/4 mile than when I shifted at 11500 RPM.
good point. why does everybody say it pulls hard to redline when max power is around 11/12 k?
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Old February 22nd, 2018, 11:17 PM   #171
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I've got a BRT CDI (2 maps, nonprogrammable) that I've been meaning to put up on ebay. I could dig it up if anyone is interested.
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Old February 23rd, 2018, 10:34 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer x View Post
The important thing about the wiring is.You must get a wiring harness from the same year as the CDI . The diagrams do not show the pin positions .and they are all different.

I rode with the 88-94 ICU box and even raced it at the drag strip . I never got a chance to take it to Maxton . But having the 15000 rpm rev limit was not a problem . The engine dose not make power past 12000 rpm and you would only be able to get the engine that high in the lower gears. even then you would have to really mean to do it.

I tried shifting at 14000 rpm and went slower in the 1/4 mile than when I shifted at 11500 RPM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer x View Post
Sorry. I took the timing from 42 deg @10,0000 rpm to 44 deg @ 10,000 rpm to 13,000 then 40 deg at 13500 and 40 deg at 14,000 and 14,500.then the limiter. I am still waiting fro the shop to send me the graphs but the bike was measuring max power at 12500 then a very slight drop off to the limiter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick9611 View Post
good point. why does everybody say it pulls hard to redline when max power is around 11/12 k?
While max-power is 11-12k, it doesn't drop off that much. What counts is thrust at contact-patch which is based on torque at rear-wheel. That torque is a function of gearing. So 13k-RPMs in 4th-gear still gives more torque at rear-wheels than 11k-RPMs in 5th-gear, even if engine torque/HP drops in higher RPMs.

I think there's only so much that can be done with ignition anyway. Newgen doesn't have high-RPM flow due to small ports, small carbs, cam-specs, exhaust, etc. If the air's not getting into engine, you can't dump in extra fuel & ignition to make more power.

Butt-dyno's not most accurate way to measure anyway. Hoping to find some dyno-charts or accelerometer datalogs for those 1/4-mile runs before and after ignition adjustments.
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Old June 6th, 2019, 03:40 PM   #173
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I did variation of this upgrade because I wanted to test pre-gen ignitor boxes on my new-gen race bikes to see if there were any performance enhancements to be had from different ignition curves. I chose to use Y-splices into harness so I can switch back & forth between factory '08 new-gen boxes or pre-gen boxes easily. I had spare 2003 ignitor and pigtails from my storage-unit bikes-in-boxes purchase.



First I laid connectors end-to-end with new-gen connector to determine where on harness to Y-splice in.


Then I removed 3-4mm of insulation from existing harness wiring.


Next, tightly wrap end of matching wire from pre-gen pigtail onto harness wire.


Then solder for mechanically strong and electrically conductive joint.


Repeat with remaining wires an wrap with electrical tape.


One master layer of electrical tape to make it neat and reduce damage from shaking and vibration


DONE! Pre-gen ignitor can just barely be squeezed between mounting posts on new-gen fender. You can see connector for new-gen ignitor is right there for easy and quick swapping of ignitor boxes. Don't try using them both at same time!
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Old June 7th, 2019, 09:13 AM   #174
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^^^ So have you run it yet? Any idea if the effort it warranted with better performance?
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Old June 7th, 2019, 10:33 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky nrk View Post
^^^ So have you run it yet? Any idea if the effort it warranted with better performance?
Yes it does give you more power, primarily if you have newgen CA model. Even then, it requires stopwatch to notice. Did back-to-back testing and I was able to gain about 0.5s on another newgen 250 on front straight, starting at 12:15 on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT6v-...90s&autoplay=1

Link to original page on YouTube.


Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; June 8th, 2019 at 05:14 AM.
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Old June 8th, 2019, 04:22 AM   #176
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i think this what has happened to red bike. problem hit when i was doing my devils whip ride. rough idle wanted to die on the bottom end. felt like fuel delivery issue. mid range and top fine so i kept ridin. on the way back near spartanburg it noisedived off the top end and lost all power. i limped to a truck stop doing 55 mph(max speed)i checked all the normal stuff fuel,changed plugs, guy went a got me some seafoam. ran great while bike was cooled off. made to columbia and it started again. filled up and headed for augusta. symptoms started again as soon as i backed off throttle. a 8 hour trip ended up being 13.
so watcha think i do? yup send carbs to ductiman!
got em back, as always awesome rebuild. fired up red, same issue!
i was shocked. anyways i did
petcock fuel test
switched back to stock coils( was running sticks)
started it up no change. any throttle and it wants to die and then recovers. seems like 1 cylinder does it more.
checked cam phasing and valve clearance. all good
reached out for help from danno and he mentioned ignitor/cdi box
i forgot all about what controls the coils. he is sending me a known good one and i bought a used one of ebay for $54. very suprised this is a known fault..
i thought nippondenso stuff was good.
ya 08 was a bad year for kawasaki. their 2nd generation crap sux.
even my 08 klr has lots of 2nd generation issues.
any new gen guys need to keep a spare box with them if u ride long distance. or you might be stranded.
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Old June 8th, 2019, 09:35 AM   #177
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unfortunately this didn't solve my problem. i will wait on danno's box to confirm. bike cannot take any hard load at all. like it once to load up.
very strange
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Old April 11th, 2022, 05:19 PM   #178
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Help please

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
I did variation of this upgrade because I wanted to test pre-gen ignitor boxes on my new-gen race bikes to see if there were any performance enhancements to be had from different ignition curves. I chose to use Y-splices into harness so I can switch back & forth between factory '08 new-gen boxes or pre-gen boxes easily. I had spare 2003 ignitor and pigtails from my storage-unit bikes-in-boxes purchase.



First I laid connectors end-to-end with new-gen connector to determine where on harness to Y-splice in.


Then I removed 3-4mm of insulation from existing harness wiring.


Next, tightly wrap end of matching wire from pre-gen pigtail onto harness wire.


Then solder for mechanically strong and electrically conductive joint.


Repeat with remaining wires an wrap with electrical tape.


One master layer of electrical tape to make it neat and reduce damage from shaking and vibration


DONE! Pre-gen ignitor can just barely be squeezed between mounting posts on new-gen fender. You can see connector for new-gen ignitor is right there for easy and quick swapping of ignitor boxes. Don't try using them both at same time!
I have soldered the pre gen pigtails onto my new gen harness. The colorcodes match, and looking at these pics, the position of the wires in each pre gen connector are the same, but the pre gen ignition box I have #21119-1229 does not have a spade terminal in position for the the grn wire or the blk wire (to ignition coils) in the connectors to attach.
Here is a pic of the module:IMG_0001 (2).jpg
Has anyone encountered this and re positioned the grn and the blk wires?
I might try cranking the engine and checking output on the two empty spades for a switching ground, I suppose I could just move the two wires to the spades, 50/50 might start or smoke.
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