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Old August 15th, 2015, 08:43 AM   #1
nathan1
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need help

Info. I've done everything to try and get my bike running but its not firing still. I only keep getting cranks. Battery is new and solenoid is good. Starter is good. Stator is good. Rectifier is good. Ignition is good. Choke, fuel, tank, carby, kill switch all good. Battery brand new. Amazing compression as well.
It blows out gas from the exhaust pipe( white smoke) but it doesnt turn over. Checked the spark plugs, its got new plugs but im getting NO sparks from both the coils. I've pulled stator apart just to be sure and everything is good.
So the problem and question i need answered is why wont it run?
Does that have something to do with the ecu? If so, how can i go about checking that?
I'd appreciate it if someone who has been through something similar can kindly help out .
Its a project so in no rush. First bike so obviously not sure what the actual fcuk is going on with that fcuk of a thing

Last futzed with by nathan1; August 28th, 2015 at 02:04 AM. Reason: missed an important part of the information provided
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Old August 15th, 2015, 10:50 AM   #2
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Nathan,
I see two issues in your post, correct?
-Bike won't turn over
-Dash lights go on and off when moving handlebars

For the bike not running, isn't the AUS version fuel injected? Look into the wiring diagram for your bike, but I believe there is something within the wiring circuit of the ignition switch that enables fuel pump to run, which sort of primes the line, in anticipation of engine crank and start. If it's carbed, then there is a fail safe within the wiring circuit of ignition for the ignition controller. Essentially, you're going to need a new ignition switch. Should be able to get a new ignition set still. Try @PartsNinja and see if he has the entire ignition/key/rear seat lock assembly so that you're bike is keyed the same.

As far as the dash lights, remove fairings and check the main harness that runs along the bike on the left hand side. Check for any bad wires, frays, etc. Off that harness, just under the clutch lever area, it should branch off and go under the gauge display. Check that also, check any plugs along the way. And finally check under the gauge display area. You have a loose wire or loose ground most likely, and turning that one way is momentarily breaking the connection, hence lights out.

Sounds like this bike may have had a rough life. Put the effort and work into it, learn on it, take care of it, and you'll be surprised how good of a bike it is.
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Last futzed with by DmbShn41; August 15th, 2015 at 07:09 PM.
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Old August 15th, 2015, 04:07 PM   #3
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There is 100ohm resistor in the OEM ignition switch, which keeps someone from hot wire the bike, without that the igniter doesn't work, no spark to the plugs.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ninja_250_Start_&_Ignition_Schematic.pdf (56.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: pdf Start_&_Ignition_Troubleshoot_Schematic.pdf (65.1 KB, 7 views)
File Type: pdf Wiring_Schematic_-_R4.pdf (373.7 KB, 9 views)
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Old August 26th, 2015, 07:47 AM   #4
nathan1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DmbShn41 View Post
Nathan,
I see two issues in your post, correct?
-Bike won't turn over
-Dash lights go on and off when moving handlebars

For the bike not running, isn't the AUS version fuel injected? Look into the wiring diagram for your bike, but I believe there is something within the wiring circuit of the ignition switch that enables fuel pump to run, which sort of primes the line, in anticipation of engine crank and start. If it's carbed, then there is a fail safe within the wiring circuit of ignition for the ignition controller. Essentially, you're going to need a new ignition switch. Should be able to get a new ignition set still. Try @PartsNinja and see if he has the entire ignition/key/rear seat lock assembly so that you're bike is keyed the same.

As far as the dash lights, remove fairings and check the main harness that runs along the bike on the left hand side. Check for any bad wires, frays, etc. Off that harness, just under the clutch lever area, it should branch off and go under the gauge display. Check that also, check any plugs along the way. And finally check under the gauge display area. You have a loose wire or loose ground most likely, and turning that one way is momentarily breaking the connection, hence lights out.

Sounds like this bike may have had a rough life. Put the effort and work into it, learn on it, take care of it, and you'll be surprised how good of a bike it is.
Nah man its carb
The light issue got fixed and i just received the new ignition switch today and tried to turn the bike over but still the same thing. Keeps cranks but doesnt turn over. Any idea what else the issue might be?
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Old August 26th, 2015, 07:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostt View Post
There is 100ohm resistor in the OEM ignition switch, which keeps someone from hot wire the bike, without that the igniter doesn't work, no spark to the plugs.
I did get a new oem switch to suit bike but same thing man. It doesnt fire up at all. Just cranks like theres life in it but its not kicking over.
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Old August 27th, 2015, 05:22 PM   #6
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Nathan,

Just cranks and no fire? Not even an attempt to turn over? Using the choke? Try pulling to the spark plugs from cylinders, grounding to the frame, and try starting. Do this individually, you should see spark. If you don't see spark, something within the ignition is not allowing spark, or the coil/wire/plug may be bad. You need air, fuel, spark, and compression to start the bike. Check those. I mention spark first as it relates to the ignition install.
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Old August 28th, 2015, 11:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DmbShn41 View Post
Nathan,

Just cranks and no fire? Not even an attempt to turn over? Using the choke? Try pulling to the spark plugs from cylinders, grounding to the frame, and try starting. Do this individually, you should see spark. If you don't see spark, something within the ignition is not allowing spark, or the coil/wire/plug may be bad. You need air, fuel, spark, and compression to start the bike. Check those. I mention spark first as it relates to the ignition install.
Theres absolutely no spark man.
I've just bought and plugged in new coils and ecu but it makes no difference. I see smoke coming from the exhaust but lights come on but it only cranks. Like as if it wants to start but doesn't. Its a new ignition switch that I've put on as well.
I think i've uploaded a vid from my bike so have a look and tell me what you think about it
20150829_160543.mp4
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Old August 29th, 2015, 05:16 AM   #8
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Nathan,
Need to confirm that you have electric for spark. If the ignition isn't sending the juice to the coils, then nothing. I've attached a wiring diagram to this post. Also, check fuses, make sure you don't have a blown fuse. We need to rule this out before moving to next item. Will need a multimeter to check. Need to confirm that the 100ohm resistor is working correctly. Without that, or without the specific ignition that goes on this bike, the bike won't start.
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File Type: jpg 08-12 Ninja 250 Wiring Diagram.jpg (118.6 KB, 6 views)
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Old September 4th, 2015, 12:26 AM   #9
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Boy's. Ive now got 3 ignition shits at home. 2 aftermarket ones after reading about ohm resistor i went and bought a oem ignition from a actual bike shop in aus they know about ohm resistors etc they assured im buying the correct stuff.. came home plugged it in and Still the same thing.
No spark to coils etc. Everything else works.
Any ideas?
And can barely see the diagram bruv.
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Old September 4th, 2015, 07:31 AM   #10
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How did you determine there is no spark? Another thing to check would be to confirm you have power at the coils. Turn the ignition on and use a volt meter to check for power where battery power comes in to the coils (ignition on).

It may be a wiring problem somewhere along the line, or related to the different ignition switches. It's possible there were differences from year to year, and something isn't making contact.

Also be sure to use new fuel. Drain the tank and floatbowls before buying any more parts. Once you confirmed spark, you can move on the fuel delivery, but be sure to have fresh gas first.
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Old September 4th, 2015, 08:38 AM   #11
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Took 1 spark plug lead off and put it on a spare plug, held it against the engine and cranked it over to see if i have a spark, used a bolt and what ever else to test for spark. Multi meter tested it also. Coils are sweet as I've only replaced them a week back now just to be sure. With the ignition on i got no readings on from the coil but im getting power from the 2 plug bits that connects to the coils the red and black wire if that makes sense? It was early in the morning when i checked, its 2 in the morning now so can barely remember but if i remember correctly
I think it was like 11 something volts close to 12v but I think thats coz my battery was chomping life. Either that or close to 20 odd but that might have been ohms on something else.

Another thing. Ive opened up a couple spare after market ignitions and found that theres this little board thing inside the ignition switch where the wires are connected to. 1 has a resistor connected to that board and theres a grey wire connected to that resistor. The rest are connected all over that board. If i were to connect another wire to the resistor how will i go about doing that?
Do i just take the brown wire and connect it to the resistor thats connected with the grey wire? Or is there some other procedure?

Im only asking because you may be right. Honestly giving whatever a go.
Another thing. I have no spark yet so why am i seeing smoke blowing from the exhaust everytime i try to start it? Its insanely noticeable with choke on. Is that normal?
Cheers bud
Thanks in advance
Send a message i'll double check in the morning again.
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Old September 4th, 2015, 09:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan1 View Post
Took 1 spark plug lead off and put it on a spare plug, held it against the engine and cranked it over to see if i have a spark, used a bolt and what ever else to test for spark. Multi meter tested it also. Coils are sweet as I've only replaced them a week back now just to be sure. With the ignition on i got no readings on from the coil but im getting power from the 2 plug bits that connects to the coils the red and black wire if that makes sense? It was early in the morning when i checked, its 2 in the morning now so can barely remember but if i remember correctly
I think it was like 11 something volts close to 12v but I think thats coz my battery was chomping life. Either that or close to 20 odd but that might have been ohms on something else.

Another thing. Ive opened up a couple spare after market ignitions and found that theres this little board thing inside the ignition switch where the wires are connected to. 1 has a resistor connected to that board and theres a grey wire connected to that resistor. The rest are connected all over that board. If i were to connect another wire to the resistor how will i go about doing that?
Do i just take the brown wire and connect it to the resistor thats connected with the grey wire? Or is there some other procedure?

Im only asking because you may be right. Honestly giving whatever a go.
Another thing. I have no spark yet so why am i seeing smoke blowing from the exhaust everytime i try to start it? Its insanely noticeable with choke on. Is that normal?
Cheers bud
Thanks in advance
Send a message i'll double check in the morning again.
It sounds like you have power to the coils then.

As far as the smoke goes - that suggests you do have spark to me.

I would replace the fuel. Then try with less choke, and with slightly opening the throttle as you crank. But first charge the battery. After sitting off the charger for a bit it should read 12.7V (100% charged). During cranking it should read over 11V. If it doesn't you need a battery.

A small shot of Starting Fluid in the carbs should give you some popping and short running. If that happens, you can concentrate on the carbs and fueling issues.
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Old September 4th, 2015, 05:42 PM   #13
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There is no spark bruv. It smokes up even if i dont have the plugs connected to the coils. Like i said theres no spark
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Old September 4th, 2015, 07:39 PM   #14
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Inside the oem ignition barrel/ switch keyed not toggel. theres a grey wire connected soldered on with a resistor on the little board thing yeah. The rest are just soldered on everywhere on that board.
Is that correct? Or is there another wire that needs to be connected with the resistor thats connected with the grey wire?
Any help? I just need a simple answer and simple wiring instructions. Thanks
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Old September 4th, 2015, 07:56 PM   #15
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Absolutely no spark? have you checked the safety switches like the clutch, kick stand, ect...
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Old September 4th, 2015, 07:59 PM   #16
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Yeah i've checked all that
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Old September 5th, 2015, 06:03 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=Ghostt;1041368]There is 100ohm resistor in the OEM ignition switch, which keeps someone from hot wire the bike, without that the igniter doesn't work, no spark to the plugs.

I got a oem ignition. It has a resistor inside but I'm still not getting any spark. The resistor is connected to the grey wire. I have power to ignition and coils. But no spark insight. Any clue why this could be?
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Old September 5th, 2015, 07:15 AM   #18
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Okay, so have you checked the ignitor(CDI unit)? If you remove the non-red wire and ground that terminal of the coil there will be a spark. When you un-ground it there will be another spark. That is all the ignitor is doing but it is doing with a transistor when it receives a signal from the pickup coils. In between the pickup coils and the transistor is a micro-controller that determines the advance of the spark depending on rpm.

It could be the pick up, bad connections etc.... At this point it has to be something we are simply overlooking. Have you tried bypassing all safety switches?

Does the tachometer move while cranking? It should bounce a little, if not it might be a bad ignitor(CDI) unit.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 07:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostt View Post
Okay, so have you checked the ignitor(CDI unit)? If you remove the non-red wire and ground that terminal of the coil there will be a spark. When you un-ground it there will be another spark. That is all the ignitor is doing but it is doing with a transistor when it receives a signal from the pickup coils. In between the pickup coils and the transistor is a micro-controller that determines the advance of the spark depending on rpm.

It could be the pick up, bad connections etc.... At this point it has to be something we are simply overlooking. Have you tried bypassing all safety switches?

Does the tachometer move while cranking? It should bounce a little, if not it might be a bad ignitor(CDI) unit.
Ok i'll do that in the morning (ground the non red side of the coil)
And I've recently just changed the cdi unit a week back now and no it doesn't move while cranking. Nothing seems to move apart from the fuel gauge telling me i have fuel when the ignition is on.

Also i've checked the pick up coils just now. One side has 2 black and yellow wires and the other has 3 yellows. Ive checked the 2 black and yellow wires coming from the pick up coil and it comes up at 111.2 ohms is this correct for a 09 kawasaki ninja 250r carb?
Sorry man i have no manual on this so been doing research online. I have no idea how to bypass safety switches.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 07:53 AM   #20
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Here you go, http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches

Try that
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Old September 5th, 2015, 07:48 PM   #21
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Early in the morning i tried that grounding the non red side of the coil and i had spark. Now im gonna try bypassing thanks for the link
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