best practices for filtering at red light

[ai4px]

I'll try to contribute something on subject here and not fan the flames of "you can't lane split" "oh yes I can".

Honestly, most motorcyclists are much more aware of their surroundings than the cagers. The bikers are incentivized to pay more attention. Additionally, bikers are much more skilled drivers than the average cager. We fall for this trap all the time. How many times has each of us said to ourselves "I can take that curve at 100mph!"... and done it. Or for you lane splitters, you think to yourself "I can fit between those two cars".

In the case of the curve, sure YOU can make the curve... but what about the guy who is waiting to turn out of his driveway and looks left, right and left again and pulls out. From his perspective, you really weren't there a second ago.

In the case of lane splitting, from the cager's perspective you suddenly appeared of the right side of his car just as he decided to change lanes to miss that tire carcass that's 1/2 way in his lane. You saw it too, but never imagined he'd change lanes to freaking miss that thing!! Now if you hadn't been lane splitting, you would have had a 12 foot buffer zone around you. Since you are lane splitting, you have the space between two cars, maybe 3 or 4 feet?

I know you guys can argue all you want about buffer spaces and your right to lane split. And I know there are times when it's perfectly fine to do. But the main point here is that it's not YOUR skill in question. It is the skill of the drivers you have to interact with.

[Alex]

That's a fair point, but it's actually not in conflict with many of the thoughts in this thread. The goal (IMO) of these guidelines when we are splitting is to do so to minimize the effect of what other drivers can do to harm us, assuming that they are all asleep/texting/drunk/high/deceased/teenaged from the get-go.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ai4px

In the case of lane splitting, from the cager's perspective you suddenly appeared of the right side of his car just as he decided to change lanes to miss that tire carcass that's 1/2 way in his lane. You saw it too, but never imagined he'd change lanes to freaking miss that thing!! Now if you hadn't been lane splitting, you would have had a 12 foot buffer zone around you. Since you are lane splitting, you have the space between two cars, maybe 3 or 4 feet?

Faulty logic here, in this hypothetical situation is the biker splitting between 2 cars or 1 car and an empty lane. If its 2 cars, the car is not going to try to merge into another car, if its 1 car then the biker broke rule number one, don't split a car and an empty lane.

We can come up with hypotheticals all day about why splitting is bad, we can do it about why riding a motorcycle is bad too. But at the end without any facts or proof its utterly pointless

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by ai4px

In the case of lane splitting, from the cager's perspective you suddenly appeared of the right side of his car just as he decided to change lanes to miss that tire carcass that's 1/2 way in his lane. You saw it too, but never imagined he'd change lanes to freaking miss that thing!! Now if you hadn't been lane splitting, you would have had a 12 foot buffer zone around you. Since you are lane splitting, you have the space between two cars, maybe 3 or 4 feet? [/B]

i've highlighted the mistake in your hypothetical situation. you saw the situation. you knew what was going to happen, and you put yourself in the position where you would get hit. %100 bikers fault in your hypothetical. would you ram a carcass in the road with your car? i sure as hell wouldn't. i would move around it. if you as a biker see someone about to hit something, do you really expect them not to react? i hate to sound like i'm being offensive but all of your posts scream that you don't pay attention to those around you. maybe its your area and you rarely see other people around you but that is not the case here.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by OCMagnum

Bingo, I think you just hit the nail on the head. I have no problem technically filtering, but it can get intimidating in packed traffic when the cars start moving again. Hence my question for best practices what to when the light turns green while you are filtering.

I don' feel ready to split traffic at any substantial speed at this point in my riding career and only filter when I don't see anything that I expect could spook me (e.g. I suspect the two cars in the front to be the Johnny Racer type, etc.).

So I would agree with you that a lot of it is mental confidence level.

It's still a judgement call IMO. If a light turns green and you are close, you could get to the front and take off. If you are well behind, just stay in the lane. If the line is long enough that you can split a fair distance and merge back in, go for it.

On my commute going home, every day, there's a section of 5 lights that has traffic backed up at every light. Lights are green except the last one, but people are still at a standstill because of traffic. I split past and through to get by all the traffic. When traffic gets moving again because the last light turns green, I decide if I'm close enough to go or get in line at that point. Traffic usually moves slow enough that you can stay in front of a car and keep pace long enough to signal your intentions and merge.

Find what makes you comfortable and just do it.

[Jiggles]

Splitting is like smoking crack, its really not that bad once you've tried it

[CThunder-blue]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the gear you wear and visibility conditions. My winter helmet is a white shoei with reflective solas tape. Since I commute when it's dark, it's important to be visible. I also applied the same tape to my black Ogio back pack. When it rains, I wear a high-viz rain suit on top of my gear. Even in heavy rain, people move aside for me to lane share because they can see me. The more visible you make yourself, the better chance you have of getting home safely.

[OCMagnum]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the gear you wear and visibility conditions. My winter helmet is a white shoei with reflective solas tape. Since I commute when it's dark, it's important to be visible. I also applied the same tape to my black Ogio back pack. When it rains, I wear a high-viz rain suit on top of my gear. Even in heavy rain, people move aside for me to lane share because they can see me. The more visible you make yourself, the better chance you have of getting home safely.

Excellent point and one that I recognized the first time I commuted home after the time in November changed. Went out the next day and bought a hi-viz vest to wear for commuting in the winter months.

[Joshorilla]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the gear you wear and visibility conditions. My winter helmet is a white shoei with reflective solas tape. Since I commute when it's dark, it's important to be visible. I also applied the same tape to my black Ogio back pack. When it rains, I wear a high-viz rain suit on top of my gear. Even in heavy rain, people move aside for me to lane share because they can see me. The more visible you make yourself, the better chance you have of getting home safely.

Very good point, I always wear my white helmet, jacket with reflectors and I have a high viz vest coming for christmas.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Some great advice here. It seems the best advice is to only split when cars are running side-by-side

... and that point by @Whiskey about not filtering on tight corners is good. It's easy for a cage to drift in their lane and squish you!

Originally Posted by alex.s

if my understanding of the 'oppositions argument' is correct, it is that it is illegal to lane split because cars aren't used to it because it's illegal.

ha ha ha! love it

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Alright I'm back! Here ya go, enjoy!

Link to original page on YouTube.

I think there's a passenger on that scooter too You can see a bare leg which isn't the riders in some of the frames.

Originally Posted by alex.s

how are they going to respond to that jay walker, or the squirell running out in the street.

What the hell? No need to bring squirrels into this: we didn't ask for you weird, furless humans to build tarmac roads through our forests.

[akima]

@OCMagnum: Here's a lane splitting story of mine that is very relevant to your thread. Hopefully you can learn from my mistake! ...

I was on the way to work today. As I approached a set of traffic lights I thought I would lane split through the middle of the two lanes of traffic going in my direction and then pull in front of one of the cars waiting at the lights. I've done this tens of times before on this exact same junction. It's legal and relatively safe to do. This time though I wasn't concentrating hard enough. I made it all the way through the waiting traffic and just as I was pulling in front of the last car the lights went green... but I didn't see that. The car driver didn't notice me in time as I swerved in front of it to stop and the result was that it drove into me slightly. It's bumper only lightly pushed into my leg before the driver stopped. At this point my bike was at an angle and I couldn't bring it upright on account of having a car pressed against my leg! I turned around and looked at the [understandably] pissed off lady driving the car, made an apologising motion with my hands and then made a 'please back up' motion so that I could bring the bike upright and ride away.

What a jerk! I'll be concentrating much harder when lane splitting next time, and pay attention to the traffic lights.

I originally posted the above story here.

[ai4px]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i've highlighted the mistake in your hypothetical situation. you saw the situation. you knew what was going to happen, and you put yourself in the position where you would get hit. %100 bikers fault in your hypothetical. would you ram a carcass in the road with your car? i sure as hell wouldn't. i would move around it. if you as a biker see someone about to hit something, do you really expect them not to react? i hate to sound like i'm being offensive but all of your posts scream that you don't pay attention to those around you. maybe its your area and you rarely see other people around you but that is not the case here.

You know I really enjoy the activity level on this forum. It is the reason I keep frequenting even though I don't have a ninjette.

Look, you two can be myopic and bury yourself in troubleshooting my hypothetical situations but my point stands. On bikes we are at the mercy of the cagers' skills. Lane splitting may be fine or not. In the end it is about risk assessment and the decision is up to you.

[OCMagnum]

Originally Posted by akima

@OCMagnum: Here's a lane splitting story of mine that is very relevant to your thread. Hopefully you can learn from my mistake! ...

I was on the way to work today. As I approached a set of traffic lights I thought I would lane split through the middle of the two lanes of traffic going in my direction and then pull in front of one of the cars waiting at the lights. I've done this tens of times before on this exact same junction. It's legal and relatively safe to do. This time though I wasn't concentrating hard enough. I made it all the way through the waiting traffic and just as I was pulling in front of the last car the lights went green... but I didn't see that. The car driver didn't notice me in time as I swerved in front of it to stop and the result was that it drove into me slightly. It's bumper only lightly pushed into my leg before the driver stopped. At this point my bike was at an angle and I couldn't bring it upright on account of having a car pressed against my leg! I turned around and looked at the [understandably] pissed off lady driving the car, made an apologising motion with my hands and then made a 'please back up' motion so that I could bring the bike upright and ride away.

What a jerk! I'll be concentrating much harder when lane splitting next time, and pay attention to the traffic lights.

I originally posted the above story here.

Thanks for posting this for me and others to learn from. I'm sure it's not one of your proudest moments so I truly appreciate you putting it up of teh world to see

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by ai4px

On bikes we are at the mercy of the cagers' skills.

if you believe this to be true, then you most certainly are. however i believe putting yourself at the mercy of others to be quite foolish. proper lane splitting requires absolutely nothing from a cager. i've had plenty of oblivious cagers swerve next to me, do all kinds of stupid ****. but unlike in your imagination, i simply apply the brakes, or change direction. i don't mysteriously lose all traction, wash the bike out and then slam into the back of a car.

yes. i understand you think that distance is the only thing that can save you from a car. good for you. the rest of the world disagrees with you.

do you suffer for myopia? it certainly sounds like it the way you speak about cars. maybe you should work on better controlling your vehicle.


yes i understand your analogy but my point is your analogy is stupid. you say i'm short sighted because you believe i'm going to inevitably smack into a car while lane splitting. you believe i'm going to smack into a car because you think i'm either a) flying down the road at uncontrollable rates making myself unable to cope with other vehicles, b) ride in roads so tiny that even a car couldn't fit -- the roads here are very large to accomodate things like splitting and other large vehicles. or c) am completely oblivious to what is actually going on around me. i assure you none of these are the case.


here's what i think most people including cagers don't understand about lane splitting. there isn't someone in front of you. nobody blocking your vision that means you can see the next 20 cars in both lanes toward the front. you aren't reacting to something 10 feet in front of you... you see that gap forming ahead of you and you see the guy who wants to get in that lane so you slow down so you aren't in the gap when you go by him... do you think he is going to side swipe a truck to change lanes?

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by ai4px

You know I really enjoy the activity level on this forum. It is the reason I keep frequenting even though I don't have a ninjette.

Look, you two can be myopic and bury yourself in troubleshooting my hypothetical situations but my point stands. On bikes we are at the mercy of the cagers' skills. Lane splitting may be fine or not. In the end it is about risk assessment and the decision is up to you.

I agree with some of what you're saying, but the hypothetical situation you gave is one that anyone who does split (and has at least a little experience) would avoid like the plague, for the exact reason you pointed out. There's no reason to be out of lane if you have a clear space beside you, leaving that space free is asking for trouble.

Hell I've been in lane & had someone decide to merge into the space I was occupying on more than one occasion; (We drive on the left here)

• On roundabouts here everyone circles right & exits are on the left. 5 ways roundabout is one of the tighter ones, the exit onto Hagley road is a sharp right-left downhill chicane. I was in lane 1 when the dopey bitch driving a 7 seater decided to take the racing line & tried to push me over the barrier.
  It's rare that I get off the bike to 'discuss the finer points of someone's driving' but when her response to "look where you're ****ing going, you switched lanes in the turn & nearly killed me" was "bikes are dangerous, don't drive one" I was just short of dragging her out of the car & putting her head under it's wheel.
  
  
• On the motorway in lane 3, concrete barrier to my right, cage in front, another on my tail & all happily doing 85mph. Dozy bitch in lane 2 decided she wanted to go in the fast lane, got alongside me & began pushing right.
  Blasting the horn didn't work, back-knuckling the driver's window finally got her attention. (Going from her reaction I think she needed a change of underwear after hearing steel knuckles on glass... got to love Dainese gloves)

Point I'm making is that the only safe assumption about cagers is that they can't see bikes, I'm sure neither of the idiots above would have tried the same move if there was a cage in the next lane. (I don't split on a curve for the same reason as in point 1, you can have that level of idiocy from both sides)

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

the only safe assumption about cagers is that they can't see bikes

well said

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ai4px

You know I really enjoy the activity level on this forum. It is the reason I keep frequenting even though I don't have a ninjette.

Look, you two can be myopic and bury yourself in troubleshooting my hypothetical situations but my point stands. On bikes we are at the mercy of the cagers' skills. Lane splitting may be fine or not. In the end it is about risk assessment and the decision is up to you.

In CA yes its up to us, but in SC the decision was made for you

[ai4px]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

In CA yes its up to us, but in SC the decision was made for you

Touché

grinning----> In SC wearing a helmet is up to us, but in CA, the decision was made for you.*

Stay thirsty my friends.
Wes

*I wear a helmet all the time - even though I could choose not to.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ai4px

Touché

grinning----> In SC wearing a helmet is up to us, but in CA, the decision was made for you.*

Stay thirsty my friends.
Wes

*I wear a helmet all the time - even though I could choose not to.

In CA nearly all our decisions are made for us. This is the one thing we can hold above the heads of the rest of the country

[areifel]

Is it legal to filter at a red light in Florida? I know lane-splitting is illegal, but didn't know if we had a loop hole or not.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by areifel

Is it legal to filter at a red light in Florida? I know lane-splitting is illegal, but didn't know if we had a loop hole or not.

No, but ditch the helmet and go sandals and banana hammock all day, that's not illegal

[areifel]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

No, but ditch the helmet and go sandals and banana hammock all day, that's not illegal

Sounds exhilarating.

[alex.s]

for people who are terrified of it, here is the devil in all its glory

Link to original page on YouTube.

so dangerous...

[Joshorilla]

Originally Posted by alex.s

for people who are terrified of it, here is the devil in all its glory

Link to original page on YouTube.

so dangerous...

Cool vid bro

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by alex.s

for people who are terrified of it, here is the devil in all its glory

so dangerous...

Just because some people choose not to lane split or filter doesn't mean they're terrified of it. Don't judge.
And some of us can legally lane split if we cross the border five minutes away and we still choose not to.

It's the ride for me not the destination. I have no rush and now I kinda like heavy traffic, it's like death chess. Keeps your brain fresh!

[alex.s]

i know plenty of people who choose not to lane split. i never said people who choose not to lane split were terrified of it. i choose not to lane split sometimes also. its people who have irrational and ignorant fears of the unknown that i dislike. not people who choose to take a more casual route.

[dave42]

Ya know, the irrational fear thing reminds me a lot of the typical 'you're gonna die' comments we all get when we started to want to start riding. Oh well, to each his own.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by akima

@OCMagnum: Here's a lane splitting story of mine that is very relevant to your thread. Hopefully you can learn from my mistake! ...

I was on the way to work today. As I approached a set of traffic lights I thought I would lane split through the middle of the two lanes of traffic going in my direction and then pull in front of one of the cars waiting at the lights. I've done this tens of times before on this exact same junction. It's legal and relatively safe to do. This time though I wasn't concentrating hard enough. I made it all the way through the waiting traffic and just as I was pulling in front of the last car the lights went green... but I didn't see that. The car driver didn't notice me in time as I swerved in front of it to stop and the result was that it drove into me slightly. It's bumper only lightly pushed into my leg before the driver stopped. At this point my bike was at an angle and I couldn't bring it upright on account of having a car pressed against my leg! I turned around and looked at the [understandably] pissed off lady driving the car, made an apologising motion with my hands and then made a 'please back up' motion so that I could bring the bike upright and ride away.

What a jerk! I'll be concentrating much harder when lane splitting next time, and pay attention to the traffic lights.

I originally posted the above story here.

Ok, my suggestion is that you should not be pulling in front of the car at the front anyway. Just stay in the middle, and then when the light turns you can beat the cars off the line and then pull in front.


I don't ever want my lane splitting to be "cutting in line". I go to the front of the line, but I don't make them wait for me, I get going faster than them.

[akima]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

Ok, my suggestion is that you should not be pulling in front of the car at the front anyway. Just stay in the middle, and then when the light turns you can beat the cars off the line and then pull in front.


I don't ever want my lane splitting to be "cutting in line". I go to the front of the line, but I don't make them wait for me, I get going faster than them.

I've thought about that, but decided against it for these reasons:
1) If I have a cager directly to my right and left, then there's a chance one or even both cagers will decide to race me. I don't want to be side by side with a speeding cage with nowhere to go. Even if the cagers don't try and race me, I don't want that to even be something I have to think about it. If I have to think about and look for it, then my concentration and line of site wont be directly in front of me where potential dangers could be (red light jumpers etc). If I filter in front of a stopped cage, then there is no chance of any of that happening. It's safer.
2) Potentially, if my bike stalls or doesn't get into gear I could end up between two lanes of traffic passing me, which would also be bad. I could get clipped by a vehicle (the roads get pretty thin in the UK) and fall in the road or get my foot run over. in the unlikely event of this problem, I'd much rather hold traffic up by being safely in front of a lane of traffic, blocking it from moving.
3) In England it's always raining, the center line between the two lanes is likely to be painted, which will make it very slippy: not good if I want to pull away from traffic quickly and turn into one of the two lanes if/when I get ahead of the cages.
4) It's more common to see bikes pull in front of cars waiting at lights, than to stop beside them in-between two lanes of traffic. This means that it's more likely a cager will expect the rider to pull in front of them than to hang to their side.

It mostly comes down to control. I feel like I'm in far more control of my fate if I pull in front of a cage waiting at the lights, than if I hang around beside them. I've learned that, as a street-rider I should always rely on my own control over a situation rather than trusting a cager with my fate.

I don't believe I hold the cages up when I filter in front of them at the lights. I make sure that I'm in gear before the lights turn and I very quickly pull away when the lights turn leaving the cages far behind me. If it wasn't for my luminous kawi-green paint work, it would be like I wasn't even there!

In the event I described I made two very specific mistakes:
1) I wasn't concentrating on the lights.
2) I wasn't concentrating hard enough on the car I was about to pull in front of.
So basically I just wasn't concentrating. As @alex.s has pointed out in his novels posts: a high degree of concentration and awareness of your surroundings is essential if you want to safely lane split.

Ever since that event I have given all the concentration needed to safely lane split. I wont make the same mistake again and I hope everyone who read my short story can learn from it too.

[alex.s]

i stay in the middle unless another biker is splitting up behind... then i'll pull up further so they can pull out the side. if i'm coming up on another biker, i will pull beside them in front of the car (eyes on the light, ready to go)

if the bike starts backing up or closes your spot to go around, just give them a yell or a wheel bump... people forget you can yell at other bikers

i always make sure i'm at least a few feet ahead of the cars

[akima]

Originally Posted by alex.s

if the bike starts backing up or closes your spot to go around, just give them a yell or a wheel bump... people forget you can yell at other bikers

why use words?!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Alex]

I disagree with pulling in front of cars once at the front of the light. I think it goes against the reasons why we promote filtering to car drivers: "look, we're not getting in front of you in traffic, we're using spaces that aren't be being used to get out of your way and move on wards". Cutting in front of another driver and stopping in front of their path, is making a stronger statement, and is more likely to aggravate a certain portion of drivers. From a personal danger standpoint, I'm not sure either choice is that much safer. A distracted driver might look up at the light and move forward without realizing a small bike is now in their way; that same driver wouldn't be likely to impact a bike that is still positioned in between the lanes.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Alex

I disagree with pulling in front of cars once at the front of the light. I think it goes against the reasons why we promote filtering to car drivers: "look, we're not getting in front of you in traffic, we're using spaces that aren't be being used to get out of your way and move on wards". Cutting in front of another driver and stopping in front of their path, is making a stronger statement, and is more likely to aggravate a certain portion of drivers. From a personal danger standpoint, I'm not sure either choice is that much safer. A distracted driver might look up at the light and move forward without realizing a small bike is now in their way; that same driver wouldn't be likely to impact a bike that is still positioned in between the lanes.

the only problem i have being in the middle of the lane is other bikers... i dont like being stacked 2 or 3 in the center because you aren't sure how they are going to react and in that situation you are cutting off most of your exits... if there is room to get around and pull in front i'll take it and gun it at the green. if i see the situation i usually wont split up to it but sometimes you have a long time to split before you can see the front of the pack

[Alex]

Right, with multiple bikes nearby, it does seem safer for all to give the ones behind an out so they can get to the front as well. When doing that, it really is important to get the heck out of dodge quickly when the light turns green. Check quickly and carefully for any cross traffic, and accelerate promptly.

[alex.s]

just try not to do wheelies, the cagers think you are showing off

[akima]

Originally Posted by alex.s

just try not to do wheelies, the cagers think you are showing off

I'm still not sure which button I press to do a wheelie?!!

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by akima

I'm still not sure which button I press to do a wheelie?!!

on the button that upgrades you to a 300

[alex.s]

the wheelie button of course!

oh damn i forgot only those can-am's have that... on the left control: 6 radio buttons, a mode button a horn button, a shift up button, shift down button, one button which i forget what it does... don't forget about the electric parking brake button. no clutch lever though. i think the wheelie button is right next to the parking brake

[Alex]

Originally Posted by akima

I'm still not sure which button I press to do a wheelie?!!

Did someone say wheelie button?

[alex.s]

wheelie button is the abs and traction control disable button right?