Advice needed for 2010 Ninja 250r possibly clutch problem

[seldom]

My Ninja 250r Australian version twin carbie, has been going into false neutral even when the bike is still rolling from 2nd to 1st gear. I am wondering if this is common for Ninjas 250Rs to go into false neutral when you shift down from 2nd to 1st when the bike is moving still eg. coming to the stop at the lights etc? I had this problem the other day on the way to work I was coming up to a speed bump and I shift down from 3rd to 2nd gear and when I shift down to 1st at around 30km/hr on the speedometer the gear went into neutral and when I shift down again to go into 1st gear it made a really loud noise almost like an explosion (usually it makes a slight noise but this was much louder and it didn't sound normal) and I hear what sounded metal dropping on the ground. I couldn't find what broke off but the bike still riding normally and I don't know what it could be, quite possibly the clutch broke internally.

When I got home that night I put the bike on the rear stand and checked the front/rear sprockets and checked if it is in right order externally. The chain tension is correct and still got plenty of lube.

Called the dealer and I've been telling the guys about the false neutral since the first week I had the bike and they reckon at first the clutch is just too new etc. etc. farking beat around the bush really.
I did changed Oil and filter at 3000km and before the oil change false neutral was more common and it was using dino oil. I used Mobil 1 Fully synthetic 4T 15W50 motorcycle oil since the change the engine is running smoother and quieter but the false netural thing is still occuring.

I did the search on google and all I found was slip clutch due to incorrect oil being used so it doesn't really apply to my situation.Could you guys help with some suggestion, I'm going to be dropping the bike off at the dearlership tomorrow so at least I will know if they're bs me this time.

[kkim]

I never shift back into first unless the bike is at a complete stop. The neutral you're finding, I believe, is part of the positive neutral finder that Kawasaki designs into their bikes.

did you find any bits of metal in your oil when you changed it?

[seldom]

Originally Posted by kkim

did you find any bits of metal in your oil when you changed it?

The bike has only 4000km on the speedometer and I haven't change the oil since that major incident a few days ago, but when I did change the oil at 3000km on the speedometer, the oil was quite black and dealership was using dino oil for break in at 1000km service. I didn't notice any metal shaving in the oil when I changed the oil.

I took the bike into workshop for it's 1000km service but I changed oil/filter at 3000km my self although the next service isn't due until 6000km. I just changed it because I wanted to run it on fully synthetic oil. The bike has been running quieter and smoother (maybe just in my head) since the bike is running on synthetic and it is going into neutral a lot less from 2nd to 1st.

I notice a few days after I change the oil the oil was pretty dark. It's not gold ale color like it was new. I did change the filter and drained the oil for 90mins to make sure all the old oil is drained completely.

[kkim]

just curious... why do you feel you need to shift back down into first while you're still moving?

are you able to shift back down into first while coasting to a stop with the clutch in?

[seldom]

Originally Posted by kkim

just curious... why do you feel you need to shift back down into first while you're still moving?

are you able to shift back down into first while coasting to a stop with the clutch in?

Isn't that what you're suppose to do when you're coasting and put the clutch in and shift down.
I used to just slow down and stop, clutch in even if I'm in 3rd or 4th gear and while the bike is standing still I would then shift down back to 1st but sometimes I can't get the gear down shifted into 1st at standing still. If that make sense. So I started down shifting from which ever gear I'm in and use combinations of brake and engine braking until the gear is back to 1st gear.

[noobie]

The MSF course kept telling everyone to shift to 1st before coming to a stop.

[kkim]

okay, I meant not to shift to first and let out the clutch while you're still moving.

[HKr1]

Maybe your not putting enough effort into the shift, foot wise. If you baby that shift 2nd - 1st, or 1st to 2nd... you will get neutral.

[noobie]

Originally Posted by kkim

okay, I meant not to shift to first and let out the clutch while you're still moving.

gotcha, misunderstood . I've been shifting to 1st while braking to a stop, but keeping the clutch in.

[kkim]

this is what made me think the OP shifted down into first and let the clutch out while the bike was moving.

Originally Posted by seldom

I had this problem the other day on the way to work I was coming up to a speed bump and I shift down from 3rd to 2nd gear and when I shift down to 1st at around 30km/hr on the speedometer the gear went into neutral and when I shift down again to go into 1st gear it made a really loud noise almost like an explosion (usually it makes a slight noise but this was much louder and it didn't sound normal) and I hear what sounded metal dropping on the ground. I couldn't find what broke off but the bike still riding normally and I don't know what it could be, quite possibly the clutch broke internally.

according to the owners manual, shifting down to first at 30 kph is a no-no and if he did let the clutch out while moving that fast in first, he might have damaged his engine. I don't know what rpm 30kph is in first, though... anyone know?

[Alex]

/moved to new-gen tech forum

[seldom]

Originally Posted by kkim

this is what made me think the OP shifted down into first and let the clutch out while the bike was moving.



according to the owners manual, shifting down to first at 30 kph is a no-no and if he did let the clutch out while moving that fast in first, he might have damaged his engine. I don't know what rpm 30kph is in first, though... anyone know?

Oh I missed that part in the manual. I had the clutch in still when I shifted down from 2nd to 1st. I usually just hear a soft "clunk" sound. But that time was different. I hear a loud clunk sound followed by grinding sound.
Took it down to the dealer and they said there's nothing wrong with the engine or the gear so I'm glad.

What are you suppose to do when you are coming to a stop and let's say you're in third gear?

I usually shift down to 2nd with clutch in do engine brake and brake lever and shift down to first but with the clutch in without letting the clutch out.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by seldom

What are you suppose to do when you are coming to a stop and let's say you're in third gear?

I usually shift down to 2nd with clutch in do engine brake and brake lever and shift down to first but with the clutch in without letting the clutch out.

that sounds about right. just a thought... do you have the proper amount of freeplay at the clutch lever?

[noobie]

Originally Posted by kkim

that sounds about right. just a thought... do you have the proper amount of freeplay at the clutch lever?

page 2-26 of the service manual

[kkim]

so, if you do have the suggested 2-3mm of lever free play, I'd say a soft "clunk" going from second to first is pretty much normal, but the "grind" wasn't. I find that first is geared so low, you need to be going really slow to "safely" put the bike from second to first w/o weird noises happening during the shift, which is why I elect to shift into first only when at a stop.

[seldom]

Thanks for all your advise.
My clutch didn't have 2-3mm free play firstly. I had it adjusted to about 1mm because I found it annoying when it had too much free play but now I had it readjusted.
Secondly I've been shifting down from 2nd to 1st when I'm travelling still around 20-30km so instead I am only engine braking with second and when the bike is just rolling to the stop I would put the gear into first with the clutch in.
I have never heard that sound ever since and that was just a one off incident and I hope I haven't caused damage to the clutch or engine from that grinding.

Once again, you guys are fantastic with advices. I couldn't get the answer on my local mc forum but I got the answers on here.

[kkim]

[Vray]

Originally Posted by seldom

My Ninja 250r Australian version twin carbie, has been going into false neutral even when the bike is still rolling from 2nd to 1st gear. I am wondering if this is common for Ninjas 250Rs to go into false neutral when you shift down from 2nd to 1st when the bike is moving still eg. coming to the stop at the lights etc? I had this problem the other day on the way to work I was coming up to a speed bump and I shift down from 3rd to 2nd gear and when I shift down to 1st at around 30km/hr on the speedometer the gear went into neutral and when I shift down again to go into 1st gear it made a really loud noise almost like an explosion (usually it makes a slight noise but this was much louder and it didn't sound normal) and I hear what sounded metal dropping on the ground. I couldn't find what broke off but the bike still riding normally and I don't know what it could be, quite possibly the clutch broke internally.

When I got home that night I put the bike on the rear stand and checked the front/rear sprockets and checked if it is in right order externally. The chain tension is correct and still got plenty of lube.

Called the dealer and I've been telling the guys about the false neutral since the first week I had the bike and they reckon at first the clutch is just too new etc. etc. farking beat around the bush really.
I did changed Oil and filter at 3000km and before the oil change false neutral was more common and it was using dino oil. I used Mobil 1 Fully synthetic 4T 15W50 motorcycle oil since the change the engine is running smoother and quieter but the false netural thing is still occuring.

I did the search on google and all I found was slip clutch due to incorrect oil being used so it doesn't really apply to my situation.Could you guys help with some suggestion, I'm going to be dropping the bike off at the dearlership tomorrow so at least I will know if they're bs me this time.

I have 900 mi. on the bike and had the same issue. I downshifted from 4th to 3rd to use the motor to slow down and heard a "clanky" metal sound. Now when i downshift while riding its making a grinding sound. Not all of the time but every third time? I am taking back to dealer.