When to counter-steer?

[headshrink]

You know how everyone loves the Ninjette because you can "throw it around" like no other bike? Can't do that without counter-steering

[almost40]

I ride at the track by shifting my weight. i do not notice myself countersteering. ( i do it) I just dont notice it. Could this be the cause of the hub-ub? I have tried to ride no handed at speed. Not a good deal as you have no control to speak of. I do notice that i pull the bike side to side with my legs. I can feel the pressure. I just dont notice the steering inputs made by the arms. Doesnt mean its not happening. I just dont notice it.
Countersteering should be like breathing.....its something you do but dont notice it most of the time.

[n4mwd]

One of the mistakes that I made while learning to countersteer was that I read somewhere on the web that to countersteer the bike, I had to...

Turn the bars the opposite direction I'm turning.

^^^^^WRONG ^^^^ BAD ^^^ BADDDDDDD ^^^^

When a new rider must think about it, its best do it the way they teach it in the MSF class. That is: PUSH on the same side of the direction you want to go.

It may seem like its the same thing, but its not. The MSF did their homework and pushing is far easier to understand and less chance of error. Little things like that can make all the difference to a new rider who is already nervous and stressed.

[exploring/carolina]

Originally Posted by almost40

Countersteering should be like breathing.....its something you do but dont notice it most of the time.

Agree, after many twisty miles it has become like breathing. I don't think about required inputs as much as trying to be smooth with the application of inputs.

The "new" rider should follow MSF recommendations to have a solid foundation to build on.

Turning basics for the new rider, page 18:

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Str..._Tips_2010.pdf

[Clearlynotstefan]

Originally Posted by ninja250

When I look at the bike, the handlebars are bolted stationary onto the bike. They don't turn the bike.
Which means you need to turn the bike with weight. Not by pushing the bars.

you use your legs as leverage on the tank and pegs.

the bars are there like that as a faux hand position, instead of making the rider use no hands with no throttle or brakes.

I may not be coming across correctly, but I very well understand the concept of that bike with the fixed handlebars. That bike is trying to teach you that you DO NOT need to turn the bars to corner a motorcycle. You use your weight. Your weight turns the bars.

Try riding that thing and seeing just how scary it is. I practice this myself, but I just use no hands while going down hill so I don't need throttle. I hang on to the sides of the tank with my hands, slow down a bit and go around turns with no hands, using only my weight.

It's very scary. Teaches you a ton very quick.

IMO, that is proper positioning, not countersteering.

The point is that you CAN'T do that. They bolted the bars straight, the actual result is that it was impossible to turn, not that they did it anyway.

[CZroe]

Simple:
When you are going fast enough for counter-steering to work, do it. When you aren't, don't.

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Simple:
When you are going fast enough for counter-steering to work, do it. When you aren't, don't.

They're tyring to say that the bike does it all the time no matter what.
Well OF COURSE! the forks have a pivot! The bike has to steer back and fourth for it to work. lol Genius.

Weather or not you countersteer purposely with your hand is a whole 'nother story that some people can't grasp.

What I describe does not seem to work well above speeds of 50mph but does fine below.
Remember, I said I do it on a slow GMR windy road and not a full speed track.
I also clearly accepted the fact that countersteering is a reality and never discounted it from the get go. I was conscious of the fact that It's required for my riding style unless I slow down, well before this one got interesting.

I still maintain I can learn additional things from the fixed handlebar bike, and I do on a regular basis because I practice that style of riding. (Which is not to be messed with by noobs).
The only reason I decided to comment on this thread was because I saw the picture of the fixed handlebar bike, and I practice doing that basically. IMO, I do actually learn things from it. KEith Code must have thought people would too, to create such a bike for people to ride. It appears people can learn things from it, and more than one thing.
=

You have to admit, if you can't corner Keith Code's fixe bar bike at all, you can't position your body. There's one thing learned, body position, by cornering a bike with no bars.
Sure, it can teach you about countersteering too!

Not trying to kill anyone, I think my input is just honestly missunderstood. =)
In part because of the slightly controversial nature of my posts not directed at teaching newbies.
We can learn from it. I am one who actually does practice this. I'm not just speaking for no reason.

So to answer the OP's question.. In my opinion, you NEED to start countersteer at about 45-50mph on the ninja. You're doing it all the time already anyways, but more serious inputs will be required after 45mph for sure.

[Kevin2109]

I think everyone is over complicating this. Just go out and ride! Find what works for you and what doesnt. Moving my handlebars in whatever direction is the very last thing I am thinking of, concentrate more on your body position and all will follow

dragging knee and hand

And there you go, totally possible to turn with one hand while dragging knee, probably not a good idea but it shows you what hand should be in control

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by ninja250

They're tyring to say that the bike does it all the time no matter what.

I was answering the OP. Ignoring lean input, the bike isn't steerable both ways at any given time, so he needs to use the one that works. If there were a choice, the bike wouldn't know which you wanted when pushin the bars (once again, ignoring lean inputs)!

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

I think everyone is over complicating this. Just go out and ride! Find what works for you and what doesnt. Moving my handlebars in whatever direction is the very last thing I am thinking of, concentrate more on your body position and all will follow

dragging knee and hand

And there you go, totally possible to turn with one hand while dragging knee, probably not a good idea but it shows you what hand should be in control

MSF tells you that it's important to know so that you don't force them the wrong way in an emergency maneuver.

[Kevin2109]

I agree that its important to know, but I think at some point when your stuck on it dwelling then its going to start to mess you up

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by Clearlynotstefan

The point is that you CAN'T do that. They bolted the bars straight, the actual result is that it was impossible to turn, not that they did it anyway.

You're telling me I didn't go downhill on a twisty with no hands.

That is not the truth.

I know otherwise. There may be variables, but I know it's possible to an extent.

At my skill level, I do it safely and learn from it. I don't recommend anyone try it (ever) unless you want to know what the feeling of wanting to jump off the bike feels like or you are highly experienced and understand the concept and can do so without hurting yourself.

I wouldn't recommend many people jump on Keith Code's bike but I'd love to give it a shot myself.
The fact is, the guy in the video did actually turn the bike with fixed bars on it. (Wheel was not fixed)
It's not impossible. Had he adjusted his speed some or leaned in a more aggressive manner, he maybe could have turned more.

I believe the rider in the video at the time I'm referring to may have been slightly biased. From what I can see, he could have given it a better shot.

[Kevin2109]

The reason you were able to do that is your handle bars are still turning. Its like on a bike, when you rock the whole bike the bars are going to rotate in one direction or another causing you to turn. If your handlebars are locked then you cant actually move

[Alex]

There is just more and more misinformation piling on this thread. People who think they are helping clarify are instead muddying the waters, and people are disagreeing with points that nobody else is making.

First - countersteering is just that. Counter. It's how single-track vehicles initiate turns. If the bike wants to turn left, the way it does that is there is first a motion of the wheel to turn right, however slightly, which allows the bike to lean left, and then continue turning left. That's why it's called counter. The initial motion is counter to the ultimate direction of the turn.

Second, for the bike or any other similar vehicle to turn at all, of course the bars have to be able to turn. In both directions. To both maintain balance and change direction. (The Code bike didn't lock the steering, the wheel is just as free to turn as any other bike; there was a secondary handlebar mounted to the frame rather than the fork, that itself didn't turn, so countersteering pressure on that handlebar did not provide any steering input)

One of the questions that is being debated here, is whether one can make the bike turn without applying any handlebar pressure whatsoever. And like a bicycle, it turns out that that is in fact possible at low speeds, and gentle turns. But even then, the bike is still countersteering to initiate the turn. You put your weight left, which pushes the bike underneath you right, however slightly. That weight shift causes the wheel to turn to the right, which leans the bike over left, and you adjust your balance to manage the steering of the front wheel, which is now pointed into the turn rather than counter to the turn.

The practice of active countersteering is just the acknowledgement of how this process works. MSF = push left, go left. Without handlebar pressure, the bike will not initiate any turn fast enough once speeds approach any normalcy. Nobody is forcing anyone to understand the physics of why this works. But those who don't try and learn how it works for them, and realize how much quicker they can flip their bike back and forth, properly setting up for turns exactly where and when they choose to, are at a disadvantage in both safety and ultimate enjoyment of riding the bike. Confidence in the bike doing what it is supposed to do every time, when given the same control inputs, makes for safer (and better) riders. Believing that body position is the primary driver of why a bike turns, and the whole steering part "just happens", is a strong precursor to posting up a new thread in the crash forum here.

[LazinCajun]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

The reason you were able to do that is your handle bars are still turning. Its like on a bike, when you rock the whole bike the bars are going to rotate in one direction or another causing you to turn. If your handlebars are locked then you cant actually move

I think this was ninja250's point. You may be able to kinda sorta force the handlebars to move a tiny bit by shifting your weight around and not touching them.

I have NO earthly idea why you would want to do that instead of just putting pressure on the bars for better control. It sounds like a good way to end up on the evening news or in the obituary section.

Long story short: you always countersteer to make the motorcycle lean at any decent speed if you're riding sanely, whether you know it or not. Bicycles have the same dynamic; that's what makes it difficult for children to learn to balance a bicycle.

With the higher speeds, forces, and masses on a motorcycle, it takes extra oomph to steer, so in my (not so humble ) opinion, it's better to be aware and conscious of your steering technique to make sure you turn efficiently in an emergency if you need to, rather than just thinking "ok I'm going to lean the motorcycle now," or worse yet throwing your weight around to no effect and subconsciously putting pressure on the bars.

Edit: Alex strikes while I'm replying again! 2nd time in 2 days

[ninja250]

I agree with you guys.
There really is no reason to have your hands off the bike..
unless you're into tricks and things. Most of which aren't meant to be done at high speed or on the open road.

Sorry to stir the pot.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by LazinCajun

Edit: Alex strikes while I'm replying again! 2nd time in 2 days

Didn't mean to steal anyone's thunder.

[alex.s]

I have to disagree with everything posted here. clearly the rear wheel controls steering.
in a turn to the left, more gas makes the bike twist counter clockwise more, making you go left more, rear brake makes the bike twist counter-clockwise less, making you go left less. i mean the whole "counter steering" thing is just talking about when the bike is twisted counter-clockwise too much and the front wheel turns to the right even though you're going to the left... right? ... left?

edit: also, tangent forces, euclidean dimensionality, centripetal forces, mass * accelleration = force... therefore, clearly i like turtles.

[Kevin2109]

Thats how it works?!

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by alex.s

I have to disagree with everything posted here. clearly the rear wheel controls steering.
in a turn to the left, more gas makes the bike twist counter clockwise more, making you go left more, rear brake makes the bike twist counter-clockwise less, making you go left less. i mean the whole "counter steering" thing is just talking about when the bike is twisted counter-clockwise too much and the front wheel turns to the right even though you're going to the left... right? ... left?

edit: also, tangent forces, euclidean dimensionality, centripetal forces, mass * accelleration = force... therefore, clearly i like turtles.

I would have to agree with alex.s LOL

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

I have to disagree with everything posted here. clearly the rear wheel controls steering.
in a turn to the left, more gas makes the bike twist counter clockwise more, making you go left more, rear brake makes the bike twist counter-clockwise less, making you go left less. i mean the whole "counter steering" thing is just talking about when the bike is twisted counter-clockwise too much and the front wheel turns to the right even though you're going to the left... right? ... left?

edit: also, tangent forces, euclidean dimensionality, centripetal forces, mass * accelleration = force... therefore, clearly i like turtles.

Clearly you forgot E=mc^2 . What do you think those little pellets rolling around in the gas tank are for? That's what makes the Ninja faster than any other bike.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Clearly you forgot E=mc^2 . What do you think those little pellets rolling around in the gas tank are for? That's what makes the Ninja faster than any other bike.

I don't have those pellets... can we get a group-buy together for that?


Seriously though, I just rode home on the freeway at rush-hour. I was in the carpool lane, the rest of the traffic was sloooooooow. When in this condition, I not only watch my speed extra carefully, watch for cars EXTRA, EXTRA carefully. But mentally make a counter-steer note. I don't know why I do this, since it is generally built into my nervous system, but I think I'm affraid I might panic, or freeze..... I just consider it "mental training/prep."

[CZroe]

Embedding will kill my link to a specific time, but this proves that leaning can steer a bike with no handlebar inputs... at least, it can when wheelieing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHeWiyWJnZk&t=1m30s

The thing to remember is that the tires are like any gyroscope and they will stay at the angle you set them at as long as they are spinning with enough force until you apply inputs to change that. You do that with counter-steering. The turn itself comes from the differing surface area from the inner diameter and the outer diameter of a round tire, kinda like a typical wider-at-the-top drinking glass or cone will roll in a circle. You only need enough bar input to change the lean angle and then it is all about maintaining gyroscopic force by rolling on the throttle.

The "No BS bike" with the dual bars shows that it's nearly impossible to do these kind of turns without counter-steering but that's mostly because you have two tires and the forward direction keeps straightening the front in line with the rear. The best you can do at any normal speed is change lanes... slowly.

[Clearlynotstefan]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Embedding will kill my link to a specific time, but this proves that leaning can steer a bike with no handlebar inputs... at least, it can when wheelieing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHeWiyWJnZk&t=1m30s

The thing to remember is that the tires are like any gyroscope and they will stay at the angle you set them at as long as they are spinning with enough force until you apply inputs to change that. You do that with counter-steering. The turn itself comes from the differing surface area from the inner diameter and the outer diameter of a round tire, kinda like a typical wider-at-the-top drinking glass or cone will roll in a circle. You only need enough bar input to change the lean angle and then it is all about maintaining gyroscopic force by rolling on the throttle.

The "No BS bike" with the dual bars shows that it's nearly impossible to do these kind of turns without counter-steering but that's mostly because you have two tires and the forward direction keeps straightening the front in line with the rear. The best you can do at any normal speed is change lanes... slowly.

I don't see what this proves. I don't base my motorcycle riding, or my understanding of the physics of it on riding a wheelie. That proves you don't countersteer a unicycle, not a motorcycle. Thats practically saying you don't countersteer a motorcycle, because you don't countersteer a car. It's irrelevant.

Honestly, and this isn't directed at the quote btw, just in general.. This thread is legit disturbing me. It's scary to think that there are people on the road that don't understand how to ride the machine. Let me make some brief recap points here.

1) Motorcycles MUST countersteer to turn at speed (when both wheels are on the ground, which shouldn't even need to be said)

2) Riding with no hands does not prove that you don't countersteer, in fact, all it proves is that you don't need hands to countersteer, that WITH NO input on the bars, the bike will countersteer without you.

3) The no bs bike is a machine intended to prove this point and it does. By fixing the bars of the bike, they proved that the bike could not be steered effectively without countersteering, even by world class track riders.

[headshrink]

Why are people arguing? Just get on your bike, "steer" in one direction, and see what happens. Case closed.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Why are people arguing?

Seems to be a pattern lately for every thread.

[LazinCajun]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Why are people arguing? Just get on your bike, "steer" in one direction, and see what happens. Case closed.

Because there was conflicting information being spread to a new rider with a question important to safety. If it's not worth getting the answer right in that situation, when is it?

There weren't personal attacks, flames, or trolls in this thread, just some good discussion. There is a difference

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Clearlynotstefan

I don't see what this proves. I don't base my motorcycle riding, or my understanding of the physics of it on riding a wheelie. That proves you don't countersteer a unicycle, not a motorcycle. Thats practically saying you don't countersteer a motorcycle, because you don't countersteer a car. It's irrelevant.

Honestly, and this isn't directed at the quote btw, just in general.. This thread is legit disturbing me. It's scary to think that there are people on the road that don't understand how to ride the machine. Let me make some brief recap points here.

1) Motorcycles MUST countersteer to turn at speed (when both wheels are on the ground, which shouldn't even need to be said)

2) Riding with no hands does not prove that you don't countersteer, in fact, all it proves is that you don't need hands to countersteer, that WITH NO input on the bars, the bike will countersteer without you.

3) The no bs bike is a machine intended to prove this point and it does. By fixing the bars of the bike, they proved that the bike could not be steered effectively without countersteering, even by world class track riders.

If you read my posts you will see that we are in perfect agreement. The elipses meant I was intentionally leaving something out and then I added it back in for comedic timing.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by LazinCajun

If you're talking about the No-BS bike, then I think you missed the point. The point of that setup isn't to show you how to steer with weight, it's to show you that it's impossible to have any control steering only with weight.

http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

That is exactly the point of the No BS bike, to show that it is impossible to have any control of the bike when steering just with body weight.

Originally Posted by Alex

The Keith Code bike was built to disprove those who discount the reality of countersteering. When using the bars that are fixed to the bike with the duplicate throttle and brake cables, the rider is asked to try and ride the bike like normal, but without being able to countersteer (as the bars are fixed). Body weight is the only thing that can change direction. What people find out very quickly is that it only works at very, very gentle speeds, and very, very gentle turns. When the speeds ramp up to anything approaching normal or faster, it becomes immediately clear that countersteering is not just a nice to have, it's a requirement to initiate the turn.

Great explanation thanks. It is really fun to watch riders that are convinced they can steer the bike with body weight alone try to get the bike to even veer in one direction. They stamp on the pegs, flight their weight around and the bike barely moves.

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Maybe Misti can add something here, as I would guess shes either ridden the no-BS bike or has seen it ridden first hand. I think at lower speeds you can lean the bike with your body, possible with footpeg weighting, and that will get the bars countersteering and falling into the turn. However, at higher speeds I could see this going bad quickly.

I have ridden the no BS bike and coached it numerous times. When throwing your weight around on the bike you can get it to gently veer off to the side but that is not considered "steering the bike" a motorcycle can only turn by using counter-steering. I recently wrote an article for Motorcycle Mojo on the subject and will cut and paste it at the bottom of this note, perhaps that will clarify.

Originally Posted by almost40

I ride at the track by shifting my weight. i do not notice myself countersteering. ( i do it) I just dont notice it. Could this be the cause of the hub-ub? I have tried to ride no handed at speed. Not a good deal as you have no control to speak of. I do notice that i pull the bike side to side with my legs. I can feel the pressure. I just dont notice the steering inputs made by the arms. Doesnt mean its not happening. I just dont notice it.
Countersteering should be like breathing.....its something you do but dont notice it most of the time.

This is a HUGE reason for the misunderstanding. A lot of people just don't realize that they are putting input into the bars when they lean into a turn. Same is true for those that think that riding without their hands on the handlebars still means they are not "counter-steering"

Here is the article I wrote for Motorcycle Mojo Magazine on the subject.

Countersteering:

We do an exercise at the California Superbike School called the Steering Drill, which takes place in a large parking lot or pit area. Most of our students are so excited to get out on the track that they balk at the idea of doing a “steering” exercise first thing in the morning. Some appear frustrated and hop on the bike all attitudy and confident thinking they are pro’s at steering their bikes, however, these students usually realize that they have a lot to learn about properly steering a motorcycle and that what they take away from the 10 minute drill is one of the most important and influential things they could possibly learn about riding. An older student recently expressed, “I’ve been riding for 40 years and I never knew this, amazing. It’s going to completely change my riding for the better.”

The steering drill is designed to check the student’s understanding of and ability to countersteer. They are then coached on ways to improve so that it can be done quickly, confidently and effortlessly.

A lot of riders think that they understand countersteering or that countersteering a motorcycle is not necessary but the fact is that a good solid understanding of what countersteering is and how to do it properly is paramount to becoming the safest rider you can be. If there comes a time when you need to quickly steer your bike out of harms way then it pays to know how to do it, and how to do it well.

Countersteering is the technique used by single-track vehicle operators, cyclists and motorcyclists, to initiate a turn toward a given direction by first steering counter to the desired direction ("steer left to turn right" Wikipedia.) This can be confusing at first because it is opposite of what you do in a car and it is counter-intuitive. In simpler terms, in order to turn a motorcycle you want to PUSH on the handlebar of the side you want to turn. If you want to go right then you push on the RIGHT handlebar. The wheel will turn to the left but the bike will lean over to the right. Push right to go right and push left to go left.

Riders do this without even realizing it, often times thinking they are just leaning or body steering the bike to get it to turn. For those that think that leaning steers the bike, what they are actually doing is putting pressure on that inside handlebar when they lean into the turn and it is that pressure that steers the bike, not the leaning.

For the steering drill, developed by Keith Code, we have our students ride their bikes in second gear, about 45km/hour. We have them do a series of S-turns as quickly as they feel comfortable doing while a coach observes how they steer the bike. Immediately we clarify with the student how they make the bike turn to the left, and a surprising number of students answer that they press on the right bar. I love it when this happens as it usually means that there will be a huge breakthrough in the students understanding of steering and an immense improvement in their riding ability. From there we usually ask the student what would happen if they pressed on the left bar and they look confused and say, “the bike will go right.”

From there we have the student ride in a straight line and just press on the left bar. This can be quite funny to watch as the student presses on the left bar, the bike wobbles a bit, starts going left, they fight it by leaning the opposite way and pressing on the other bar, the bike teeters to the right. They do this for a while and then come back with a confused smile on their faces. “It goes to the left.” They say in almost disbelief and we tell them, “that is counter-steering.”

Once the student firmly understands that pressing on the left bar makes the bike go left we work on additional aspects of steering such as having the student “go with the bike.” When a bike begins leaning over a lot of riders will fight this and counter-lean away from it which makes the bike less stable, makes it harder to turn and hold is line and can increase lean angle. We teach them to be like good passengers on the bike and go with it.

When the rider is nicely going with the bike we teach them how to have good body position that will help facilitate quick and effortless steering. Many riders sit rigidly on their machines with their arms straight and attempt to steer by pressing DOWN on the handlebars, however, the bike turns a lot quicker and with less effort if you press FORWARD on the bars. If you squeeze the tank with your knees, bend your elbows and stay relaxed it is easy to press forward on bars.

When the student is able to do a series of S-turns smoothly, quickly and effortlessly by doing what we have taught them then the exercise is over and they are able to practice what they learned on the track.

For those stubborn riders that believe that countersteering is not necessary and that all you need to do is shift your weight around and body steer or press on the pegs to turn a bike, Code developed a training bike called the No BS (Body Steering).

He did this by solid-mounting a set of bars to the frame 8” above the standard ones so that they are not connected to and do not rotate the forks with the idea that this “would positively isolate the various body shifting from the counter steering.” The motorcycle also has an additional throttle on the upper, solid-mounted bars so the bike's stability can be maintained as the user rides down the road.

If you believe that you can steer a motorcycle by how you shift your weight around on the bike then you should be able to hold onto the fixed handlebars and steer the No BS bike normally but after running hundreds of riders through this drill not one has been able get the thing to turn. No amount of wiggling, throwing body weight around or stamping on the pegs will make it do any more than a large swoop to one side, which isn’t exactly steering.
Code says that, “If it weren't so grim, it's almost comical to watch a rider who does not understand how steering is accomplished. You see them riding down the freeway trying and failing to change lanes by body steering. The rider does a very swoopy upper body swing in the direction he wishes to go but for an agonizing moment, nothing happens. There is a perceivable lag between the upper body swoop and the bike's deflection from its original course. How terrifying it must be to find that the bike doesn't instantly respond.”

This is why it is so important to understand countersteering and to practice it so that it becomes second nature. When it comes time that you need to steer quickly to avoid something that has suddenly cropped up in your path you need to be able to react and get the job done as quickly, effortlessly, effectively and smoothly as possible. Countersteering is the only way to get this done.

Keith Code says, “Steering a motorcycle results from the process of pushing the inside bar forward, the same angle and direction the forks rotate in the steering head bearings. You can also pull on the outside bar. You can do both push and pull. That is what turns it; that is all that turns it with any degree of accuracy, efficiency, quickness or smoothness. That and only that, No B.S.”

[Clearlynotstefan]

Originally Posted by LazinCajun

Because there was conflicting information being spread to a new rider with a question important to safety. If it's not worth getting the answer right in that situation, when is it?

There weren't personal attacks, flames, or trolls in this thread, just some good discussion. There is a difference

Thanks, I don't feel like anyone even came close to getting out of line. Seemed like a pretty well mannered debate.

[GeorgiaHooligan]

You countersteer after reaching 10-15miles per hour. Try and turn it like a trike and see what happens.

[GeorgiaHooligan]

YOU dont steer a bike, you push left and lean left to go left, you push right and lean right to go right.

[Clearlynotstefan]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaHooligan

YOU dont steer a bike, you push left and lean left to go left, you push right and lean right to go right.

...that's steering.

[GeorgiaHooligan]

no thats countersteering son, I thought you guys took the msf. You didnt pay attention. You steer a car, you steer a trike, you dont steer a bike once you hit 15mph.

[GeorgiaHooligan]

http://youtu.be/HrK_UsbsSro

here you go know it all

[GeorgiaHooligan]

heres another, just in case you didnt understand the first

http://youtu.be/0iCWLh1Fyn0

[GeorgiaHooligan]

Im not trying to be rude, it is what it is. Peace

[Alex]

I think his point was simply that countersteering is steering. It's just a somewhat surprising method of steering for folks not accustomed to motorcycles, that's all.

[GeorgiaHooligan]

true

[GeorgiaHooligan]

I love all of yall! Were like a big family

[GeorgiaHooligan]

Group hug!