Jetting Needle Question

[kawi]

Hello, This is my first post. I'd just like to say that before I did my re-jetting I read every forum on here regarding jetting and I absolutely love all the info I find on here. This might be a dumb question but any help would be appreciated. I just re-jetting my 2008 ninja and used a Factory Pro stage 3 jet kit. I read the jetting database atleast 10 times to get a good idea of how I should set up my bike (great info). In the directions of the jet kit it says to put 3 washers above the clip on the needle...Firstly; what is the reason for this and second; do I have to put another clip on top of the washers so they don't fall off or bounce off? Im kind've a newbie at this carb stuff. Thanks

[kawi]

I called the Factory Pro service tech. He said the retainer will hold the washers in place. Thanks

[kawi]

Out of curiosity; has anyone else put washers above the clip on their needle? Im wondering if it is necessary to do. Thanks

[kawi]

Since Im new to this forum...Maybe someone can tell me if I posted my question in the wrong area or does no one want to provide there feedback???

[choneofakind]

Well you posted in the right area. It just takes some time for people who have knowledge on this topic to post. You have to remember that we have members all the way from europe to the continental US, to Barbados, to Hawaii

[MikeBudd]

If you still haven't gotten an answer,

I know kkim when you used to be around here put washers above, then secured them further with another clip. I did the same thing, and it works.

The reason for it is to stop the needle bounce. You don't necessarily need the second clip, I just use it as more of a failsafe (the spring will hold the washers in place).

Cheers.

[kawi]

Thanks for the reply! I put 3 washers on top and put everything back together and set it on my dresser for the night until I was ready to put the carb back in my bike but I was nervous about the washers not staying in place so I took everything back apart and sure enough, they were laying in the bottom of that black part (not sure what it is called). Correct me if Im wrong here: you put the needle in first, then the spring with that plastic part going in first and then the top cover of the carb correct? Thats exactly how I did it so Im not sure why the spring didnt hold the washers. I ended up putting 2 washers on top and then another clip on top to keep them secure just as you suggested. If Im doing it wrong, please let me know.
Thanks

[MikeBudd]

Originally Posted by kawi

Thanks for the reply! I put 3 washers on top and put everything back together and set it on my dresser for the night until I was ready to put the carb back in my bike but I was nervous about the washers not staying in place so I took everything back apart and sure enough, they were laying in the bottom of that black part (not sure what it is called). Correct me if Im wrong here: you put the needle in first, then the spring with that plastic part going in first and then the top cover of the carb correct? Thats exactly how I did it so Im not sure why the spring didnt hold the washers. I ended up putting 2 washers on top and then another clip on top to keep them secure just as you suggested. If Im doing it wrong, please let me know.
Thanks

Are you sure that you put the spring back in with the top (the part that touches the carb top), going over the tab so the spring doesn't move around? I'm not exactly sure how the washers could fall off because the plastic part on the end of the spring should have kept them in place.

I know some people add another washer on top of the e-clip (that holds two washers on top of the primary) to make sure they don't move around at all. I haven't done this, and as I started right away with the e-clip keeping the washers in, I don't have any experience with the washers falling out.

You should be fine with the e-clip keeping the washers in place. Mine is exactly the same and works perfectly.

[kawi]

Ill leave the clip on top then. I may have not put it back together correctly the first time. Im glad I tore it apart and put that clip on top though. Thanks again.

[Phil_si]

If you add an e-clip below the washers, that will raise your needle additionally and richen your midrange, just so you know. The second clip is not necessary, as the needles are retained in place by the spring above them and the plastic clip (white one on top of needle). You wouldn't even need washers in the first place if you add a second e-clip.

[kawi]

The washers are just to add weight to it right?

[MikeBudd]

Originally Posted by Phil_si

If you add a clip below the washers, that will raise your needle additionally and richen your midrange, just so you know. The second clip is not necessary, as the needles are retained in place by the spring above them and the plastic clip. You wouldn't even need washers in the first place if you add a second clip.

1: This doesn't really make much sense in the way you have worded it. You normally install the clip before hand, and then richen by half steps you install washers under the clip and only 2 washers above instead of 3 (according to factory pro).

2: According to factory pro, the needles will/can bounce if you do not add washers above the clip unless you are in first position. It probably also adds weight to help prevent bounce

3: I personally like the extra failsafe of having the washers in place as well as the e-clips. We have many experienced members (such as kkim), that have stuck with this, and have been very successful. Like I said in 2, it also probably adds weight.

Originally Posted by kawi

The washers are just to add weight to it right?

To be honest, I do not know the answer to this but:

Factory Pro who obviously have much more experience than any of us says specifically to add washers on top of the first e-clip. This is said to prevent needle bounce. However, they say nothing about just adding an e-clip even though they include extra in the kit (stage 3 at least..).

I would assume this adds weight to prevent the bounce as well as possibly compress the spring a couple extra millimetres.

[Phil_si]

Ok now I understand, I thought he was adding 2 washers under the needle jet e-clip, then another e-clip to retain them in place.

[MikeBudd]

Originally Posted by Phil_si

Ok now I understand, I thought he was adding 2 washers under the needle jet e-clip, then another e-clip to retain them in place.

Yeah, if you read it like that, it would make not make any sense at all :P

[Phil_si]

Well at least I know I'm not crazy then

[jasle]

Adding 2 washers UNDER the clip is just the same as moving the clip down one position on the needle. By placing 3 washers on top of the clip you are putting pressure on the needle holding it in the pocket so it does not bounce around in the main jet. it will hold stead under bouncing forces when riding hard. They will not fall out as the little white plastic do dad will hold them in place. The little white doo dad is then held in place by the spring thing.

they guys that make the kit put a LOT of time and effort in to putting the kit together...just follow the directions. Don't try to reinvent the wheel...or jet kit in this instance.

[MikeBudd]

Originally Posted by Phil_si

Well at least I know I'm not crazy then

Hahahaha yea

Originally Posted by jasle

Adding 2 washers UNDER the clip is just the same as moving the clip down one position on the needle. By placing 3 washers on top of the clip you are putting pressure on the needle holding it in the pocket so it does not bounce around in the main jet. it will hold stead under bouncing forces when riding hard. They will not fall out as the little white plastic do dad will hold them in place. The little white doo dad is then held in place by the spring thing.

they guys that make the kit put a LOT of time and effort in to putting the kit together...just follow the directions. Don't try to reinvent the wheel...or jet kit in this instance.

Same post as guy beforehand? Same misunderstanding :P Really nooooo relevance.

Other than that, I would definitely agree with the fact that Factory Pro spent a lot of time doing this (like I said previously), and that we should trust them!

BTW the OP said even with the white plastic doodad his washers still fell out. It may have been the way he put the spring back on, or maybe when he took it off it pulled the washers off. Who knows.

Either way, his problem seems to be fixed. We will find out when he has finished the process and turned his bike on.

[jasle]

yes but its not the weight of the washers. The weight is minuscule. You basically preload the jet because you fill the gap that is normally between the e clip and the seat spring valve(white doo dad).

clips fell out most likely because they were not centered on top of the needle or the seat spring valve was not pushed down properly before full reassembly.

[MikeBudd]

Originally Posted by jasle

yes but its not the weight of the washers. The weight is minuscule. You basically preload the jet because you fill the gap that is normally between the e clip and the seat spring valve(white doo dad).

clips fell out most likely because they were not centered on top of the needle or the seat spring valve was not pushed down properly before full reassembly.

My *thought* about this is, why doesn't factory pro tell you to put a second e-clip on top i.e. in first position. The only reason I could think of is added weight (even if it might be minuscule).

Yeah, those would seem to be the only reasons eh?