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Old June 26th, 2013, 05:51 AM   #1
rojoracing53
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The Ninja 250 greatest limitation is not one of performance but of reputation

Over the last year of street riding and forum surfing I've discovered that the most annoying limitation I come across with the 250 is that no one seems to take your advise seriously. Now I can't really blame other riders for rolling their eyes when I tend to hand out advise that normally only a professional racer or someone who's been riding longer then I've been alive would know but its still annoying.

Cameron and I will go on a group ride and during one of the regroups everyone will be chilling and talking about riding technique and stuff. I do my upmost best to not sound cocky in any way so people won't think I'm just another poser talking out his ass. Most wont will just not comment on my advise and just go along like you would with someone who's a total idiot and you'd rather not argue with the guy because we all know you can fix stupid So I always feel like most will think I'm just another noob 250 rider who doesn't know anything but likes to talk big.

Coincidently I think the ones that don't believe me are the riders who ride mid pack and assume I was trailing behind them with the other 250s all the while I've been leading the whole time. I also find the riders in the group that I'm riding with at the front tend to believe what I say more and will even ask other questions.

Our poor Ninjette community has such a strong reputation for being a bunch of retarded noobs its almost sad
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Old June 26th, 2013, 06:05 AM   #2
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^ I agree with this, The worst is when people don't even know what it is and you riding with them. You stop and they are like. What is that? a 600? Then you tell them 250 and you can see the wheels turning in their head trying to figure how how you were able to keep up.

the bike has a reputation and so do the riders. I suppose the reputation isn't surprising as the majority of 250 riders are new riders and most other riders can't grasp the concept of a seasoned rider not moving to a larger cc bike. It literally seizes the little engines in their heads "dahh what? you no want 1000ss? Must be cuz u scared & can't handle it"

The problem is the good 250 riders are far out numbered by the new riders
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Old June 26th, 2013, 06:21 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by rojoracing53 View Post
........Coincidently I think the ones that don't believe me are the riders who ride mid pack and assume I was trailing behind them with the other 250s all the while I've been leading the whole time. I also find the riders in the group that I'm riding with at the front tend to believe what I say more and will even ask other questions.
........
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Old June 26th, 2013, 06:29 AM   #4
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Old June 26th, 2013, 06:35 AM   #5
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Most wont will just not comment on my advise and just go along like you would with someone who's a total idiot and you'd rather not argue with the guy because we all know you can fix stupid So I always feel like most will think I'm just another noob 250 rider who doesn't know anything but likes to talk big.

Seems to be the general mindset in my area. Everyone has 600s or higher, if you do not have a 600 then you're a complete idiot who doesnt know how to "ride properly" and nobody will talk to you/take you seriously.

Kinda funny actually...there was 12 600's that have been towed recently due to having no plates...guess they pissed someone off
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Old June 26th, 2013, 06:57 AM   #6
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used to happen to me all the time.

i give people advice, but they either turn it down blatantly, or gloss it over.
even though i had 3-10x the experience of my "peers" and my certifications were at a much higher level, i have a youthful appearance. although it gets me far in different places, its always a downfall when dealing with older folks.

you'll learn your own tricks with dealing with people, but i just do three things.
a. amaze them, perform at a level that they did not know was possible.
b. Start off your advice as a complement, then offer advice the improves their skill.
c. Dont be a pushover, if they are wrong correct them, DO NOT back Away.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #7
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I do my upmost best to not sound cocky in any way so people won't think I'm just another poser talking out his ass.
You're no poser, but I am totally curious as to what non-cocky Jason sounds like.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #8
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who cares what other people think?
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:09 AM   #9
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who cares what other people think?
I do because what they think will determine that persons comedic value for future rides and conversation. Remember Entertainment and people watching is the sole reason I do group rides.

As to the riders who don't believe me I just leave it that and if they start to argue in ignorance I just step back a play the fool and enjoy the show.

As to what None Cocky Jason sounds like: well he sounds about the same a cocky Jason because Jason is never cocky
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:11 AM   #10
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As to what None Cocky Jason sounds like: well he sounds about the same a cocky Jason because Jason is never cocky
lol wut
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:31 AM   #11
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #12
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who cares what other people think?
Very recent example. While no I don't totally care, the ninjette pulled me into this situation at the worst time. The unwritten rules/guideline of being a successful msf coach is that you avoid personal motorcycle chit chat like the plague. There's a very legitimate reason for that but I digress.

So there might be someone who has been riding for a long time and is taking the class for fun or with a friend or relative. My mentor is doing an ice breaker in the classroom and gets to me and my heart sinks, "I street ride a ninja 250." I say street ride so I can rebuttal with me having a track bike. They don't need to know what it is and the conversation ends there.

I learned that the hard way in my first classroom session. It's like being the nerdy math teacher with taped glasses. Telling new riders that you ride a ninja 250 will result in some of the younger kids and long time riders giving you no credibility. They might even publicly give you **** for it too. The smallest displacement out of our coaches is 600. One guy rides a pre gen but he has a 1300cc cruiser. It sounds stupid, but unfortunately is really the only measuring stick I have. I can't say I've been riding for a long time. Most of the permit guys have been riding longer than me haha. That's why I don't feel guilty about saying yea I got a race bike in the garage. The word race usually shuts everyone up.

I need to save my money and hurry up and buy an rc51. Then I can just say yup I ride a 1000cc sport bike now leave me alone lol.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:44 AM   #13
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Best way to make a difference?

Be the "Who IS that guy?" guy.

Show them, don't tell them. Ride better than they do and let them come to you. Be mysterious and just smile knowingly.

Silence and coolness can be very powerful.

You know the experienced rider in the TOTW 2 video? That guy. He made the other characters look like the noobs
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #14
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I could care less what people think (I ride/drive what I have fun with)... And with bikes and cars, there are different vehicles that can be fun. Some of the smaller vehicles can be more fun than the higher HP counterparts...

I think the 250 gets a bad rap cause it's labeled as a beginner's bike. And what most young people think of is oh, I don't need a beginner's bike, I need a R1! Just because it's a beginner's bike, doesn't mean it's a bad bike... You don't call a Corolla a beginner's car, right? Well, some people probably do, but mostly, no...
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Old June 26th, 2013, 11:57 AM   #15
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The word race usually shuts everyone up.
man, especially stupid moto sales people. i hate when people try to sell my obviously ****** products. i'll usually listen to what they have to say about how bilt textiles are totally good enough for track day use... they usually walk away after i tell them about how much dainese cow skin is in my closet. showing them photos or videos of race starts is also fun. they usually stop trying to sell you **** after that.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #16
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man, especially stupid moto sales people. i hate when people try to sell my obviously ****** products. i'll usually listen to what they have to say about how bilt textiles are totally good enough for track day use... they usually walk away after i tell them about how much dainese cow skin is in my closet. showing them photos or videos of race starts is also fun. they usually stop trying to sell you **** after that.
Well, you could show them your crash vids and see if they try and sell you on bilt's replacement warranty
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Old June 26th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #17
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I've not encountered this problem. I ride with some of the most aggresive riders you can imagine. Many spend large sums of money doing track days. Never had any of these guys giving me lip about my 250. Normally I won't lead a ride unless I'm on one of my bigger bikes but when I do lead on the 250nobody complains.
Recently with 2 accomplished riders following me on 1200cc high performance bikes I absolutely smoked them on a set of twisties. Left them behind and waited for the catch up at the next stop sign. Follow up emails praised what the 250 was able to accomplish. If you ride with guys that look down on smaller bikes, you need to find and ride with more educated riders.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #18
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I've not encountered this problem. I ride with some of the most aggresive riders you can imagine. Many spend large sums of money doing track days. Never had any of these guys giving me lip about my 250. Normally I won't lead a ride unless I'm on one of my bigger bikes but when I do lead on the 250nobody complains.
Recently with 2 accomplished riders following me on 1200cc high performance bikes I absolutely smoked them on a set of twisties. Left them behind and waited for the catch up at the next stop sign. Follow up emails praised what the 250 was able to accomplish. If you ride with guys that look down on smaller bikes, you need to find and ride with more educated riders.
Bill
If your smoking all your buddies on the 250 then you need faster buddies
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:02 PM   #19
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Best way to make a difference?

Be the "Who IS that guy?" guy.

Show them, don't tell them. Ride better than they do and let them come to you. Be mysterious and just smile knowingly.

Silence and coolness can be very powerful.

You know the experienced rider in the TOTW 2 video? That guy. He made the other characters look like the noobs
he was cool only because he had


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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:38 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Best way to make a difference?

Be the "Who IS that guy?" guy.

Show them, don't tell them. Ride better than they do and let them come to you. Be mysterious and just smile knowingly.

Silence and coolness can be very powerful.

You know the experienced rider in the TOTW 2 video? That guy. He made the other characters look like the noobs
I could've been "that guy" on my bicycle compared to the TOTW 2 vid noobs lol.

Fun fact, the kid in the mini van talking smack at the gas station is Peter Lenz (RIP). That kids competitor and training buddy was Josh Serne. My current avatar pic shows me riding a bike with the #65 on it. Josh Serne let me borrow his bike during that race day which happened to my first. Oddly enough that was @rojoracing53's first time racing in the past 5 years. When Jason first started racing he did it on mini bikes...learning from Josh Serne's dad.

Small world folks.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:40 PM   #21
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man, especially stupid moto sales people. i hate when people try to sell my obviously ****** products. i'll usually listen to what they have to say about how bilt textiles are totally good enough for track day use... they usually walk away after i tell them about how much dainese cow skin is in my closet. showing them photos or videos of race starts is also fun. they usually stop trying to sell you **** after that.
O gawd, same goes for the dealership people too. But yes walking into cyclegear usually involves my brain exploding multiple times.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #22
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I could've been "that guy" on my bicycle compared to the TOTW 2 vid noobs lol.

Fun fact, the kid in the mini van talking smack at the gas station is Peter Lenz (RIP). That kids competitor and training buddy was Josh Serne. My current avatar pic shows me riding a bike with the #65 on it. Josh Serne let me borrow his bike during that race day which happened to my first. Oddly enough that was @rojoracing53's first time racing in the past 5 years. When Jason first started racing he did it on mini bikes...learning from Josh Serne's dad.

Small world folks.
**** i didn't realize that was lenz... very sad.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CycleCam303 View Post
I could've been "that guy" on my bicycle compared to the TOTW 2 vid noobs lol.

Fun fact, the kid in the mini van talking smack at the gas station is Peter Lenz (RIP). That kids competitor and training buddy was Josh Serne. My current avatar pic shows me riding a bike with the #65 on it. Josh Serne let me borrow his bike during that race day which happened to my first. Oddly enough that was @rojoracing53's first time racing in the past 5 years. When Jason first started racing he did it on mini bikes...learning from Josh Serne's dad.

Small world folks.
Fun fact

Cameron got his ass handed to him by #53 in his avatar pic, the rider of #53 is my sister. wned:
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:54 PM   #24
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Old June 26th, 2013, 02:58 PM   #25
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I always get the, "awesome friggin bike man, that's sick, what is it?" Oh it's a 2009 250r. Then they say "oh," like I just completely took the wind out of the awesome sail.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #26
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Stopped reading after you misspelled "advice."
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Old June 26th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #27
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I think the 250 gets a bad rap cause it's labeled as a beginner's bike.
Kawasaki's fault. LOL. Can't blame their marketing strategy though, made them millions.



People are seriously confused that I got the 300 after having many miles on the 250 and Boulevard. Usually the same type of people that thought it was a 1000 in the twisties
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Old June 26th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #28
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That was a perk of starting on the 500, I say it's 500cc and people don't know the difference between that and a 600. Some people even mistake it for a 250 and talk smack then realize it's larger and magically stfu lol. People always seem to need to compensate for something (skills?), I went to pick up a friend from her msf class last summer on my Ninja and all the noobs there instantly started saying my bike was so old and ugly and how they had 600s or 1000s and you know the usual crap.
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Old June 26th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #29
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I had the same experience when I rode the 250, unless it was somebody who actually rode with me. Then they were like, "that bike is just a 250"... Yeah it is.

I haven't had the same same thing with the 300. Maybe cause it looks so bad a$$. I had a few of my friends ask me, "why not a bigger bike", but they still think it's a sweet ride.

Most people don't know the difference, and I don't usually bring up the cc's. I just tell them I ride a ninja, or a supermoto if I'm ridin' that. Then they're usually like, "oh cool."
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Old June 28th, 2013, 03:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Best way to make a difference?

Be the "Who IS that guy?" guy.

Show them, don't tell them. Ride better than they do and let them come to you. Be mysterious and just smile knowingly.

Silence and coolness can be very powerful.

You know the experienced rider in the TOTW 2 video? That guy. He made the other characters look like the noobs
EXACTLY!!! I used to always give advice. Now I've stop unless asked. It's a waste of energy IMO. Make a good impression for them to take the initiative to ask you. Because sometimes (more often than not) you will find someone that needs advice and when you try to give it they weren't looking for it.

If they are a danger to themselves or others, that's when I step in. Otherwise. Lead by example.

The last trackday I had a lot of people come up and complement me on how fast I was on a ninja 250 against everyone else. A few of them (they were cornerworking) were asking why I took a certain corner the way I did. I answered there question where it left them to think about it rather than tell them straight up the answer. It started a good dialogue.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 04:10 PM   #31
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Only advice I give on group rides is stay in each other's mirrors. That way you can see each other and can tell if someone goes down. Then I get to the front as soon as possible to get away from all the idiots.

On the track it's a different story. I'll try a help anyone who asks. Sometimes it's as easy as follow me. Other times it's just, I'll follow you and tell you what I see, right or wrong.
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Old June 30th, 2013, 06:30 AM   #32
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everyone I show my new bike to gives me **** for it "sounding gay" "not loud" and that its too slow mind you my friend who learned to ride in his boys 07 cbr1000rr in a parking lot then used it a few days in the st last season he got a 04 cbr600rr this summer and hes already been down twice...+ hes a squid!
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Old June 30th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #33
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I'm already a woman so I'm just used to not being taken seriously.

For the longest time I wouldn't let anyone on forums know and then I finally did and low and behold, it was better not to.

Like night and ****ing day.

I'd visit dealerships with the then bf and the salespeople would ask "boring being dragged along to look at motorcycles, eh?"

**** you. Imagine if I had been shopping for one for myself?
Then they went on to ask me what kind of bike I had and try to sell me on a CBR 250 because it was "more powerful" and "faster".

I just ride alone and do my own thing or go one-on-one with experienced female riders. At least guys can get off a 250 and be taken seriously. We can race liter-bikes and it's assumed we don't know what we're doing. And as soon as anyone is intimidated it goes to how hot we may or may not be.

I guess it's kind of nice not having to worry about people judging me by my bike, though. They already have so much more!


Is it every guy or girl? Of course not.
But it's been most in my experience.
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Old June 30th, 2013, 08:42 PM   #34
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I could care less what people think (I ride/drive what I have fun with)... And with bikes and cars, there are different vehicles that can be fun. Some of the smaller vehicles can be more fun than the higher HP counterparts...

I think the 250 gets a bad rap cause it's labeled as a beginner's bike. And what most young people think of is oh, I don't need a beginner's bike, I need a R1! Just because it's a beginner's bike, doesn't mean it's a bad bike... You don't call a Corolla a beginner's car, right? Well, some people probably do, but mostly, no...
You might want to rethink that comparison...
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Old June 30th, 2013, 10:50 PM   #35
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You might want to rethink that comparison...
Nope, both the 250 and a smaller car, like a Corolla or Civic, or whatever smaller economy car, have a similar purpose... Good on gas mileage, gets you from point A to B, good for commuting, etc...
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Old July 1st, 2013, 04:56 AM   #36
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The ninja is kind of like a miata...
The 1000s are like dodge vipers.

In a drag race the viper always wins.
Going around hairpins it depends on the driver.

If the 1000/viper rider doesnt have the skill or endurance to push his vehicle to the limit, the potential is wasted.
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Old July 1st, 2013, 02:15 PM   #37
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Nope, both the 250 and a smaller car, like a Corolla or Civic, or whatever smaller economy car, have a similar purpose... Good on gas mileage, gets you from point A to B, good for commuting, etc...
Right... the guy who buys the Corolla obviously doesn't give 2 ***** about his vehicle. Just needs basic transportation, isn't an enthusiast, doesn't want a driver's car. OR... it's all he can afford for his first (beginner) car. He's anxiously waiting for the day he can move up to a better vehicle.

I don't think either of those was the point you wanted to make about the 250.
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Old July 1st, 2013, 02:23 PM   #38
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Right... the guy who buys the Corolla obviously doesn't give 2 shits about his vehicle. Just needs basic transportation, isn't an enthusiast, doesn't want a driver's car. OR... it's all he can afford for his first (beginner) car. He's anxiously waiting for the day he can move up to a better vehicle.

I don't think either of those was the point you wanted to make about the 250.
Dude, first, chill.

Second, I am not saying the car/bike *is* a beginner's bike, I am making the comparison that it's ridiculous to call either a beginner's vehicle... By definition, being a beginner's vehicle constitutes someone wanting or needing to "upgrade" to a better vehicle. Not everyone will need/want to do that.

And for quite a few people, the economy bike/car is all they will want/need. Not everyone is an enthusiast and is wanting a Ferrari or needing a car that has 400+ HP...
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Old July 1st, 2013, 02:52 PM   #39
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I think it would be hard to say a motorcyclist isn't an enthusiast... very very few people buy a motorcycle for the same reasons they would buy a corolla.
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Old July 1st, 2013, 03:06 PM   #40
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I think it would be hard to say a motorcyclist isn't an enthusiast... very very few people buy a motorcycle for the same reasons they would buy a corolla.
Yes and no... I would definitely agree that motorcyclists would be more enthusiast based... You'll have more motorcyclists riding just to ride than people driving a car, but that doesn't mean there aren't similarities...

And I am not making the comparison that they're the same. Just that people call the 250 (which is a cheap, entry level bike) a "Beginner's bike" while a cheap, entry level car is not considered a "Beginner's car"...
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