October 19th, 2022, 01:47 PM | #1 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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98 pregen with 09 newgen swap
Hello All! So back in August, I was gifted a nonrunning 98 250 in Red missing most of the farings. It was sitting outside and did not have the valve cover on it. The story was it was given to him by a friend who went into the army, that friend said it ran but took the valve cover off to do maintenance and never got around to finishing it. No Key, No Title, Ran the VIN and it is clean with no record of thefts.
I dive into the engine and noticed a valve spring was missing, pulled the cams out, and noticed the hole in the wall between the springs. Turns out two valves came loose from the springs and punched holes in the piston and snapped the rod into three pieces. went further down to find out if a rebuild was possible but even the bottom case was shot with chunks out of the inner case. | So I decided to go for a new engine but finding one for a pregen has been difficult, so I found a running newgen 2009 with 10k miles for 600. here we are It just arrived and UPS dropped it, damaged the valve cover and possibly some pieces of the cover went down into the engine because I cannot find them lol. Besides the shipping issue engine is super clean and looks to be in good shape. I know certain parts such as front mounts, radiator, and exhaust all need changed, but is there any difference with the coil packs in terms of specs? As well any suggestions as to what yall think ill need is helpful, currently working on a bracket for the radiator so I can use the pregen one since I have it. |
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October 19th, 2022, 06:57 PM | #2 |
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Coil-packs have different connectors, but electronically interchangeable. In this swap, you can keep all of pre-gen harness and electronics.
Just need to swap in new-gen carb parts: main jets and needles. Bolt on new-gen exhaust and that's it! I actually have factory new-gen exhaust and muffler if you need. |
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October 19th, 2022, 09:06 PM | #3 | |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Quote:
This Bike will end up being a cafe/streetfighter style eventually. any suggestions on tanks that fit the style are welcome as well because there is a decent size dent in the stock one. |
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October 19th, 2022, 09:11 PM | #4 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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If I did this right here should be some photos of the bike when I picked it up and the original engine after tear down
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October 20th, 2022, 05:57 AM | #5 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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That's some damage alright! I have a 427 Chevy I need to rebuild. It has similar damage from a valve that broke off at the guide at high speed.
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October 20th, 2022, 09:19 AM | #6 |
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Wow, that's some serious damage!
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October 20th, 2022, 08:55 PM | #7 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Yeah, no idea what happened to it, surprised me when I took it apart.
Today just arrived some parts, Got a New battery Antigravity ATZ7, Both front, and rear master cylinder rebuild kits, and tapered bearings for the steering stem as it was binding. I have the original ignition and am working on getting a key made(my uncle is a locksmith) but in the meantime, I ordered a new ignition/tank cap set and plan to rekey the tank lock to the new key for OEM ignition. I just trust the OEM stuff more than the stuff off eBay. Tomorrow comes the ignition set, and resistor and also get a borescope to add to my tool collection. eBay seller does not seem to be interested in helping me out any by replacing the damaged valve cover. in my opinion, it could have been packed a lot better. was put into a box with packing peanuts and then placed in another box. literally would have taken just a few feet of 1x4 and run the mounting bolts through them and damage would have been avoided. |
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October 21st, 2022, 01:36 AM | #8 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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You can have brand-new keys made for existing locks by ordering here and sending key-code.
https://www.cyclekeysonline.com/ |
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October 21st, 2022, 07:40 AM | #9 | |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Quote:
I looked everywhere for a key code but couldn't find it. checked ignition and helmet lock, unless it is inside the assembly I only found Part numbers |
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October 21st, 2022, 07:57 AM | #10 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
Key-code is on surface that's touching frame, so you can't see it unless removed. |
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
October 21st, 2022, 08:17 AM | #11 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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How many digits should it be? because I took it off again and my fiancee has a new phone we were able to super zoom and I do faintly see numbers but I only see 3
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October 21st, 2022, 09:36 AM | #12 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
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Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Should be 1 letter and 3 numbers?
lemme go pull mine and take a look.... EDIT: 4 numbers Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; October 21st, 2022 at 10:43 AM. |
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October 21st, 2022, 09:57 AM | #13 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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October 21st, 2022, 10:06 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
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found some spare ones in box, simple enough. Don't bother trying to look for it with human eyes.
I used phone camera to zoom in and with some digital image-editing.... VIOLA!!! Letter Z and 4 numbers |
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October 21st, 2022, 10:18 AM | #15 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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sweet that's awesome makes it that much easier. my punches aren't that clear lol
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October 21st, 2022, 10:45 AM | #16 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Yeah, might need some scrubbing with toothbrush.
Little rubbing with wet 400-grit sandpaper would help clean up surface making depressions easy to see. |
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October 22nd, 2022, 09:46 AM | #17 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Does anyone know where I can buy just the needles for the 08-12 carb? I have a set of Keihin jets but im not trying to spend money on rebuild kits when I just need needles.
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October 22nd, 2022, 01:39 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Note that left & right needles are different.
N9VW goes in right carb https://www.ebay.com/itm/165729041362 N9VU goes in left carb https://www.ebay.com/itm/155211228165 Here's comparison of needles: #2 is 88-07 pre-gen needle #3 is 08-12 new-gen needle, it has thicker tip for less flow compared to pre-gen since it's tuned for more mid-range and less high-end #4 is DynoJet stg-2 new-gen needle takes this difference further with even thicker tip to lean out high-end mixtures even more. |
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October 23rd, 2022, 07:12 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Use factory 98 main jet with these. Will be quite rich in top-end with 10.0:1 AFR. Can pick up little bit of power by going down to 96.
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October 23rd, 2022, 08:53 PM | #21 | |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Quote:
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October 24th, 2022, 12:34 AM | #22 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Pods will give you lots of driveability issues: erractic idle, stumbling mid-range, dies in cross-winds, increased wear. For absolutely zero benefits. Don't do it.
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October 24th, 2022, 05:16 PM | #23 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Okay then I will reconsider and look into other options may still try it but im keeping the airbox so I can always return to stock.
Does anyone know a good site I can order electrical connectors for the bike as the temp sensor in the new rad has a 2-wire pigtail required, I went to my parts store and tried all that they have for cars and couldn't find a fit? Also can't find a diagram with a part number for this pigtail. |
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October 24th, 2022, 05:59 PM | #24 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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that's one oddball connector that's different from everything else on bike. Look for it here:
https://www.corsa-technic.com https://www.easternbeaver.com https://motorcycleconnectors.com https://cycleterminal.com https://www.automotiveconnectors.com...cessories.html http://www.vintageconnections.com/ Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; November 8th, 2022 at 12:26 AM. |
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October 25th, 2022, 06:25 PM | #25 | |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Quote:
Another question I have seen posts about using CBR600RR COPs But never any years mentioned are they all the same for the model? Im thinking of doing this because with the last ninja, I had tons of coil issues and feel this could potentially cut that down possibly, not to mention it will clean up the bike. As well my current coil packs and plugs are cheap aftermarkets from ebay for the 98 and don't fit well in the new engine. |
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October 25th, 2022, 09:33 PM | #26 |
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Sure many people have done it. Some reported overheating ignitor due to lower impedance of stick coils drawing more current. Simple fix is to wire 2 of them in series to present similar loads to ignitor. Similar to this, just use single circuit.
Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; October 27th, 2022 at 01:47 AM. |
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October 29th, 2022, 05:16 PM | #27 | |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Quote:
not sure I understand, If the wiring in series does that mean it uses a wasted spark system? |
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October 29th, 2022, 06:33 PM | #28 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
Photo from recent project I did with adding stick coils on '89 CBR1000F. The '88 had reputation for frying ignitors, so didn't want to take any chances with overheating it by running lower-than-stock impedance coils. |
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October 29th, 2022, 07:28 PM | #29 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Running a too-low impedance coil with a ballast resistor can be a good thing, and far better than two coils in series. At the start of charging the coil when the impedance is working against the current flowing, the coil will see full battery voltage. Then as current begins to flow, the voltage across the coil will drop, and eventually reach steady state at the value determined by the effective voltage divider. It's like the way a 5v stepper motor running on a 12v source though a dropping resistor has better torque at high speed than a similar 12v motor without the resistor.
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October 29th, 2022, 11:12 PM | #30 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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What resistor do y'all suggest I get? I must admit im not good with math and understanding formulas, I've been researching on and off tonight and do not quite understand what I need to get in order to achieve the correct readings. I've seen a few posts on COP conversions but even though people mention adding the resistors no one that I have seen says exactly what the specs are for the one they have or how to get the correct one at least.
I metered the CBR600RR COPs I have and they all meter at primary 1.7Ω & secondary 13.31kΩ with one being slightly off at 13.62kΩ And I really appreciate everyone who has input so far! |
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October 30th, 2022, 05:38 AM | #31 | |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Once you get that, measure a stock coil the same way. The resistor you need is the stock resistance minus the COP resistance. |
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October 30th, 2022, 04:12 PM | #32 | |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Quote:
The stuff I was finding online kept bringing me to complicated calculations, I appreciate it, and thank you for explaining. |
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October 30th, 2022, 06:30 PM | #33 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Then with the resistors the hope is that the COP setup will run at least as well as the stock system.
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October 30th, 2022, 09:07 PM | #34 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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I've seen some threads on COP conversions where they didn't use resistors and had no issues and once the COPs were warmed up they ran at the same impedance as stock ones and experienced no ill effect. So I am curious about if i should try this and if there is any negative effect on the ignitor boxes, I have a spare set from my 07 that was junked a few years ago.
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October 30th, 2022, 09:17 PM | #35 |
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Sure give it a try.
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November 7th, 2022, 08:41 AM | #36 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Alright so its in and it Runs! ill post a video when i have a chance to. It sounds..Okay for sure needs some carb tuning as it doesn't stay steady at idle and will jump up and slowly drift back down.
Not getting any reading from my thermostat and there seems to be excess noise coming from the cam chain |
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November 7th, 2022, 09:13 AM | #37 |
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Woohoo!!!
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November 7th, 2022, 10:00 AM | #38 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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November 7th, 2022, 10:46 PM | #39 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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Anyone have any ideas
I reset the CCT maybe made a slight difference but not much if any. I got a muffler on it so we can hear it a bit better. Its a lot noisier than my 2007 was
Last futzed with by Alex; November 8th, 2022 at 02:38 PM. Reason: edited video link (just put the youtube video code itself in between youtube tags) |
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November 9th, 2022, 05:41 PM | #40 |
Diabetus
Name: Cameron
Location: Cape Coral
Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250 Posts: 31
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yeah so i guess i need to do valves
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