Home-made new-gen integrated tail light? Need white/red bulb+socket recommendation.

[CZroe]

I don't want to hold up my undertail installation by waiting until I can afford or find a >$50 integrated tail light, so I started looking to see if anyone has ever made their own. Obviously, searching "DIY" returns installation walk-throughs for commercial integrated tail lights, but I ultimately found videos on YouTube of a home-made integrated tail light on a current-generation 250.

Now, he says that they aren't very bright, but I'm almost positive that it's because he's using amber bulbs behind a red lens/filter. I assume that red or white bulbs should look much brighter in the same situation because their red light isn't passing through an amber filter first. Regardless, I want to try it because I will still have the new LED turn signals on the underside of my new undertail and, at the very least, it will avoid the additional changes needed when going fully LED. I'd rather not gut original turn signals when they seem to be in such demand anyway, so I'll sell 'em to cover the cost of new sockets and bulbs.

So, what type of incandescent bulbs and sockets should I buy? I prefer something standard enough to be found at any auto parts store when it comes time to replace them. Due to competition, I could also probably find brighter options if needed. What wattage are the stock bulbs and should I match that?

Here's what I've been looking at:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Edit:
OK, I might as well bring this up here as well. I'd like to shorten my front signals or do DIY flushmounts there too. I do not want to irreversibly modify the stock collector/reflector/socket so that it couldn't be used the original way and a socket alone doesn't sound like a good idea, especially when the signal is no longer facing forward. I guess that means that I need to find generic incandescent oval-shaped blinkers to modify into the front. Any suggestion? If they are the same socket type as you guys suggest for the rear, all the better! I can't find it anymore but I do recall someone saying that they shortened their stock signals and I'd like to see how they did it.

[kamikaze]

i don't know that I'd go to all that effort when you can get integrated tail lights on ebay for ~$100. hell, I got mine used from a fellow ninjetter for $40, just keep an eye on the buy/sell forums. I don't think it'll be visible enough with the brakes applied, and the fuzz might give you trouble too.

[CZroe]

It looks like kitdog was the one who mentioned shortened stock signals:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...0&postcount=18

I'll send him a PM about that.

Originally Posted by kamikaze

i don't know that I'd go to all that effort when you can get integrated tail lights on ebay for ~$100.

I don't have $100 to spare and I still need to get my bike's valves serviced and buy new tires, sprockets, chain, etc, all of which are more important. That said, the effort of taking the tail apart and installing the undertail and relocating the tag is going to be much more than drilling two holes in the brake light and sticking some sockets there. I already have the taps for installing the undertail blinkers and I can deduct more than the effort of removing and installing a fully integrated unit because I will not have to find an alternative mount for my OEM blinkers or diagnose and install an LED flasher relay. Even if you still think the integrated unit is less effort, to save $100, I'd call it "worth it."

Originally Posted by kamikaze

hell, I got mine used from a fellow ninjetter for $40, just keep an eye on the buy/sell forums.

That's precisely what I've been doing during almost the entire wait for the Sportisi group buy (from last summer!). I would have bought the $47 one from D2moto after the coupon but they were OOS and still are. I jumped at Addy99's and expressed interest before she posted the price but it's much more than I could get one from eBay for so I had to pass. I eBayed and talked to Indonesian exporters and on and on. DIY/home-made seems the best way now.

Originally Posted by kamikaze

I don't think it'll be visible enough with the brakes applied, and the fuzz might give you trouble too.

Like I was saying, the undertail will have signals, so they are redundant. Also, if I'm right, it would be more visible than the one in the video simply by using white or red bulbs. As for the police, I haven't heard of any trouble for those with Hotbodies smoke undertails and many of those guys didn't bother with an integrated tail light (just used the undertail's built-in signals). DOT regs say that they have to be amber-colored if they are not a minimum distance apart but those same regs say that they can't be less than 6" apart even if they are amber, so these will only be there for redundancy and so that I won't have to worry about an LED flasher relay or anything. There is no DOT reg against having extra lights as long as they aren't blinding, blue, distracting, manipulative (clone of emergency systems like Opticom), or intended to impersonate emergency services.

[kamikaze]

fair enough, i guess I missed that you were keeping the original signals. I kept mine with the integrated taillight for now, the more visible the better, imo.

What I'd suggest if you are going to do this is to separate the lens from the housing and maybe block off the corners a bit where your signals are going to go with some black plastic to separate the tail/brake lamp from your turn signals. using a different coloured bulb isn't likely to make much of a difference. btw, just swapping the tail light isn't a big job at all, I didn't even have to disassemble the tail to do mine over the weekend. just undid those 2 bolts, pulled the old one out, moved the velcro and little rubber bit to the new taillight, shoved it in the hole and wired it up. took all of about 20 minutes. I do have a fender eliminator on it already so maybe that makes it easier to get out, but ymmv.

as for trouble with the 5-0, don't kid yourself. most mods to lighting aren't DOT legal. I'd say 90% or more of our fender eliminators aren't legal (due to the removal of the reflector alone, not to mention plate placement, lighting, etc) let alone our non DOT integrated tail lights. most cops wouldn't pull you over for just that, but if you get pulled over for something else it might get tacked on. it's one of those risks you have to be willing to take.

gl on the project, i'm curious to see how it turns out. I"ll keep an eye out for an integrated taillight for you too

[CZroe]

It looks like 1156/BA15S bulbs are fatter at the top than the base, necessitating a larger hole in the collector unless the lens is removable to install from the front (is it?). The sockets are cheap. I'm going to go to the auto parts stores to look at the bulb selection to see if that makes things simpler. What wattage should I be looking at?

Originally Posted by kamikaze

fair enough, i guess I missed that you were keeping the original signals. I kept mine with the integrated taillight for now, the more visible the better, imo.

Well, the ones on the undertail aren't technically the originals and I want to do this with a $3 set of sockets and incandescent bulbs partially so that selling the original signals will cover the cost without forcing me to buy load resistors or an LED flasher relay.

Originally Posted by kamikaze

What I'd suggest if you are going to do this is to separate the lens from the housing and maybe block off the corners a bit where your signals are going to go with some black plastic to separate the tail/brake lamp from your turn signals. using a different coloured bulb isn't likely to make much of a difference. btw, just swapping the tail light isn't a big job at all, I didn't even have to disassemble the tail to do mine over the weekend. just undid those 2 bolts, pulled the old one out, moved the velcro and little rubber bit to the new taillight, shoved it in the hole and wired it up. took all of about 20 minutes. I do have a fender eliminator on it already so maybe that makes it easier to get out, but ymmv.

It's not the effort of the tail light alone, because the whole reason I want an integrated tail light is that I'm installing the undertail at the same time and it's going to be a much bigger job. I don't want to rely on it's turn signals alone and, well, they are LED and I'm not prepared to troubleshoot LED issues with load resistors, diodes, and LED flasher relays. If I'm retaining incandescent signals somewhere anyway, they may as well augment the undertail instead of staying wrapped up and hidden away in the tail somewhere.

Originally Posted by kamikaze

as for trouble with the 5-0, don't kid yourself. most mods to lighting aren't DOT legal. I'd say 90% or more of our fender eliminators aren't legal (due to the removal of the reflector alone, not to mention plate placement, lighting, etc) let alone our non DOT integrated tail lights. most cops wouldn't pull you over for just that, but if you get pulled over for something else it might get tacked on. it's one of those risks you have to be willing to take.

Yes, same as an aftermarket exhaust not meeting DOT regs but the federal DOT has no enforcement once a bike is sold in the country. There are no inspections and variations of the mod are popular/common, so I'm willing to risk it. FWIW, I already bought red reflectors for the plate mount but I wonder if that's going to matter when it's mounted sideways (supposedly legal in the two states I care about: GA and CA). They probably want it on the tail somewhere but mounting the plate there would block the undertail's signals. A reflector wouldn't...

Originally Posted by kamikaze

gl on the project, i'm curious to see how it turns out. I"ll keep an eye out for an integrated taillight for you too

Thanks! Still looking for input but I'll definitely keep everyone updated.

[alex.s]

from my reading, the problem with after market tails and integrated tail lights being "not DOT certified" is that they're too close together. for dot cert they need to be at least 12" apart at their widest IIRC?. they're also "supposed" to be yellow/orange, but yellowish incandescent white usually will pass. you don't need any reflectors aside from your license plate. and if you have anything pointing forward, it has to be white, or yellow/orange. (any red or blue going forward usually will result in an instant ticket as they get pissy and say you're impersonating an officer's lights.) will you get pulled over for this? maybe if the guy is having a bad day or you're doing something really stupid... but i doubt it. i've been pulled over for speeding with completely illegal lighting before and the guy made a comment on it (something like 'interesting lights') but really didn't seem to care.

[kamikaze]

yea, i tried the resistors, they get stupid hot if left flashing for much longer than a green light corner. if you forgot to cancel your signal or had to stop at a light for any length of time they get way too hot. did the diode mod and picked up a cheap electronic flasher from a local auto parts store. I put SMD LED bulbs in the factory housings last season, and just installed my integrated taillight on the weekend. The diode mod is easy, and can be done quick if you've already got her skirt off

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by kamikaze

yea, i tried the resistors, they get stupid hot if left flashing for much longer than a green light corner. if you forgot to cancel your signal or had to stop at a light for any length of time they get way too hot. did the diode mod and picked up a cheap electronic flasher from a local auto parts store. I put SMD LED bulbs in the factory housings last season, and just installed my integrated taillight on the weekend. The diode mod is easy, and can be done quick if you've already got her skirt off

hot resistors means you used resistors rated too low for the draw you're pulling. you can use a lower ohm resistor with more in parallel, or get a higher amp resistor. but yeah, leave that puppy on and you'll have a road flare before you know it.

[alex.s]

By lower ohm, I meant higher ohm

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by alex.s

from my reading, the problem with after market tails and integrated tail lights being "not DOT certified" is that they're too close together. for dot cert they need to be at least 12" apart at their widest IIRC?. they're also "supposed" to be yellow/orange, but yellowish incandescent white usually will pass. you don't need any reflectors aside from your license plate. and if you have anything pointing forward, it has to be white, or yellow/orange. (any red or blue going forward usually will result in an instant ticket as they get pissy and say you're impersonating an officer's lights.) will you get pulled over for this? maybe if the guy is having a bad day or you're doing something really stupid... but i doubt it. i've been pulled over for speeding with completely illegal lighting before and the guy made a comment on it (something like 'interesting lights') but really didn't seem to care.

Rear-facing blinkers can be red if they are a certain distance apart (something greater than the minimum though I can't say how much). You see it all the time in cars.

Where I lived in GA you couldn't get away with having a blue interior light in the mid/late 1990s (not kidding).

[Cazper]

I've been meaning to do an integrated tail light as well simply because it would add turn signals and I've wanted to get an LED tail light ever since I went smoked undertail. Any chance my bikes rear has inspired you?

You know we should meet up some time so you can check it out in person

[CZroe]

Well, I can't find red 1156 bulbs but I'm pretty sure red incandescent bulbs are just white tinted red anyway and wouldn't be any better than white behind a red lens. The typical wattage seems to be 26.XW. Is that OK? What do the OEM blinkers use? The manual only mentions the brake/tail light (21W).

Originally Posted by Cazper

I've been meaning to do an integrated tail light as well simply because it would add turn signals and I've wanted to get an LED tail light ever since I went smoked undertail. Any chance my bikes rear has inspired you?
You know we should meet up some time so you can check it out in person

Well, I've had my undertail on order since the start of the hugger GB and I came to your thread because of the same line of logic (did not want to mar it to mount a plate), but you got yours before me and gave me some ideas for dealing with it (I'm following Jonah's tag-mounting suggestion from your thread). Thanks! I definitely wanted to see it at the tech day but work needed me.

[Cazper]

Well it all looks much better with the hugger installed as well... we'll have to hook up at some point

[Kitdog]

Yea I did try to shorten my stock signals stock, I took the stock signals apart which the "stock" fits into the housing then I cut off the part that takes the bolts, cut off all the ribs and put a drill bit into the tube to make sure it stayed aligned, then I glued it all back together again, it didn't turn out so hot they were not strong enough at the glue point. I really like the speed metal micros though and ended up switching to them all the way around.

[CZroe]

OK, even though I now have an integrated tail light, I think I should do this to increase its resale value. I plan to drill two holes and install BA15s sockets with Sylvania 67 LL bulbs from Autozone (the same recommended for the tag light). They are white and about the same diameter as the socket, so inserting them through the drilled hole that the socket fits into should not be a problem.

I can't find any confirmation of the original signal bulb's wattages, but I think it's around 10W. The 67 LL bulbs I intend to use are only about 8W but it might be wise to switch to an 1157-compatible LED brake light so that it doesn't get too hot in there with extra bulbs. Retaining the stock relay and keeping it "plug and play" for the next owner is the main incentive, so I hope the specs work out.