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Old October 29th, 2017, 06:35 AM   #81
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And VisorDown thinks it might say 420, not 400.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...0%93-or-it-420

Maybe it really is a 450 not a 420?
Nah, it's a 400. However next year Yamaha releases a 421cc R4 to one-up Kawasaki in the stupid cc wars.

This is all kinda Yamaha's fault. With the R3, they didn't have the balls to compete with Kawasaki and release a bike of the same cc displacement. Instead they chose to make a 321 to start the cc wars.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 07:21 AM   #82
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The GPX250 was released in 1984, so the engine would have been designed in 81-83 all by hand, back then. It was until 2004 the most powerful stock production 4-stroke engine in a Bike ! So 20 years st the top of the pile, until the 1000 engines took over.

The 400 is 650 based, so nothing from the 300 will be in that engine. It’s also a lot heavier than the 300 engine. The 650 weight in at around 62kg which is a heavy lump, the Busa 1300 is only 58kg !!!
Might it be just similar to current Kawi-think (like the 650), but all new and scaled-down from the 650?

I don't think they just took a 650 lump and sleeved it down from the sound of it, but the design is definitely closer to the current 650 than the 300 - which dates waaaay back...
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Old October 29th, 2017, 10:31 AM   #83
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The GPX250 was released in 1984, so the engine would have been designed in 81-83 all by hand, back then. It was until 2004 the most powerful stock production 4-stroke engine in a Bike ! So 20 years st the top of the pile, until the 1000 engines took over.

The 400 is 650 based, so nothing from the 300 will be in that engine. It’s also a lot heavier than the 300 engine. The 650 weight in at around 62kg which is a heavy lump, the Busa 1300 is only 58kg !!!
The press release said the motor is 1 kg lighter than the old 296cc motor so I struggle to see how it can be based on the heavier 650cc motor.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 10:36 AM   #84
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Nah, it's a 400. However next year Yamaha releases a 421cc R4 to one-up Kawasaki in the stupid cc wars.

This is all kinda Yamaha's fault. With the R3, they didn't have the balls to compete with Kawasaki and release a bike of the same cc displacement. Instead they chose to make a 321 to start the cc wars.
That's funny, the other day some one said "it's all KTM's fault, they released their 373cc bike.... etc etc.

It's out now and it is what it is.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 03:51 PM   #85
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That's funny, the other day some one said "it's all KTM's fault, they released their 373cc bike.... etc etc.

It's out now and it is what it is.
Actually, as a thumper, 373 seems just about right to be in the mix with a 300 twin. In much the same way a 675 competes with a 600. The RC390 just does slightly better at the track due to a slightly higher state of tune. Kudos to KTM for that and some up spec (but not awesome) USD front forks.
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Old November 1st, 2017, 09:39 AM   #86
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No details, but the 400 will definitely be running in World Supersport 300 with some amount of ballast or restriction -

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...ace-ninja-400/
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Old November 1st, 2017, 10:44 AM   #87
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No details, but the 400 will definitely be running in World Supersport 300 with some amount of ballast or restriction -

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...ace-ninja-400/
Good to hear, I was wondering what was going to happen there.
Possibly in time if Yamaha increase their bikes cc's (for better or worse this is inevitable) then they may look at changing the title of the championship.
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Old November 1st, 2017, 11:12 AM   #88
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Good to hear, I was wondering what was going to happen there.
Possibly in time if Yamaha increase their bikes cc's (for better or worse this is inevitable) then they may look at changing the title of the championship.
They call it a 300 series, but they allow anything from 250CC-500CC with certain weight or RPM restrictions. It's supposed to by anything that meets the Euro M2 licensing restrictions on horsepower and power to weight ratio.

They can call it whatever they want, maybe a M2 Series would be more truthful, but what is in a name? wouldn't a rose by any other name smell the same?
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Old November 1st, 2017, 12:11 PM   #89
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Yeah, around here, 250 Superbike is really popular. Hopped-up 250s and stock 300s. Adding restricted 400s may make it even more fun! The 400 seems to be stuck in between though. Too much for 250/300 classes, etc. not strong enough for the 450 Superbike (600 Supersport bikes with 1 cylinder disabled). There's a lot of overlap with Formula-II and F-III as well. So confusing, I'm still trying to sort it out!
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 01:53 AM   #90
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Yeah, around here, 250 Superbike is really popular. Hopped-up 250s and stock 300s. Adding restricted 400s may make it even more fun! The 400 seems to be stuck in between though. Too much for 250/300 classes, etc. not strong enough for the 450 Superbike (600 Supersport bikes with 1 cylinder disabled). There's a lot of overlap with Formula-II and F-III as well. So confusing, I'm still trying to sort it out!
In New Zealand the racing class is called super sport 300 and the rules are as below:

Twin cylinder four stroke engines from 260cc up to 325 cc.
Or single cylinder four stroke engines from 260cc to 380cc.

So as you can see the 399cc Ninja wont be eligible.
When this class was set up the 325cc cap for twins was to accommodate the R3 and the 380cc cap for singles was to accommodate the RC390.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 06:02 AM   #91
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In New Zealand the racing class is called super sport 300 and the rules are as below:

Twin cylinder four stroke engines from 260cc up to 325 cc.
Or single cylinder four stroke engines from 260cc to 380cc.

So as you can see the 399cc Ninja wont be eligible.
When this class was set up the 325cc cap for twins was to accommodate the R3 and the 380cc cap for singles was to accommodate the RC390.
I bet they are rewriting the rules as we speak...
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 07:34 AM   #92
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Not a racer so don't think much about the ins and outs of rules.... but wouldn't it be simpler if all these local organizations were to adopt the World Supersport 300 rules?

Simplistic question, yeah, but seems such an obvious solution. Why wouldn't that work?
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 07:51 AM   #93
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Sure, we have WSS300 class. It’s just not as popular because few people actually have a stock 300. They always want to upgrade their bikes and this throws them out of that class. Into which class is the question. Some 2-stroke 250s are put into 250 Superbike. Others go into Formula-II.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 12:08 PM   #94
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Not a racer so don't think much about the ins and outs of rules.... but wouldn't it be simpler if all these local organizations were to adopt the World Supersport 300 rules?

Simplistic question, yeah, but seems such an obvious solution. Why wouldn't that work?
It's a good idea but it starts to get a bit technical for your average club to run and enforce because the larger bikes like the CBR500 have an RPM limit as well as a higher minimum weight limit.
So it's a bit more than just having a accurate set of bike scales handy.

Like jkv45 alluded to, motorcycle racing organisations would be crazy if they didn't re -write any rules that stand in the way of the Ninja 400 being eligible. Numbers at the track are falling away enough as it is without creating obstacles for new racers.
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Old November 3rd, 2017, 07:11 PM   #95
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It's a good idea but it starts to get a bit technical for your average club to run and enforce because the larger bikes like the CBR500 have an RPM limit as well as a higher minimum weight limit.
So it's a bit more than just having a accurate set of bike scales handy.

Like jkv45 alluded to, motorcycle racing organisations would be crazy if they didn't re -write any rules that stand in the way of the Ninja 400 being eligible. Numbers at the track are falling away enough as it is without creating obstacles for new racers.
Yeah but then you will have people screaming that the Ninja 400 is too much better than their R3 or KTM 390.

Rev limiter is pretty easy to test, start the bike up and twist the throttle until the rev limiter kicks in.
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Old November 3rd, 2017, 09:06 PM   #96
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Yeah but then you will have people screaming that the Ninja 400 is too much better than their R3 or KTM 390.

Rev limiter is pretty easy to test, start the bike up and twist the throttle until the rev limiter kicks in.
I race in Formula 3 so it wont affect me and I wont be losing sleep over it.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 02:10 AM   #97
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What I do think could work would be a factory performance accessory catalog, with everything from engine tuning mods to upgraded suspension bits to whole front ends. They could even do packages... buy one part number, get all you need. Dealers need only stock base models. Those who really do want an upgraded bike could order the parts. Everybody wins.
Well that is what they started with the Versys-X 300, I ordered the Adventure model, & the dealer tells me, that the 3 models are supplied as 1, the base bike, then the other 2, are dealer fitted kits, so the City or Adventure models, come as kits for the dealers to fit ! It's got to be better for the techs, than just doing services ! And it's a start to what you suggested.

Bike sales techniques are way behind cars. I can pick the spec of my car & its made to order, yes you have to wait 4-12 weeks for it, but you can have what you want. Bikes are still sold like chewing gum, same thing in different flavours, as in colours !
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Old November 4th, 2017, 02:25 AM   #98
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On the CC thing, having ridden 400's in the past they are generally the best size for a bike engine. Faster than 90% of cars to 100mph, they can cruise comfortably at all highway speeds. They are lighter & cheaper than larger bikes, they want for nothing really. IMO 400cc multis or 500cc twins, are ideal general use engine sizes & quite economic.

I've always said, if anyone makes a 500cc V-twin with good looks & a reasonable spec, I'd be at the front of the queue, I even toyed with the idea of sleeving down an SV650 to 500 !
But it's a Suzuki ��

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Old November 4th, 2017, 05:06 AM   #99
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I race in Formula 3 so it wont affect me and I wont be losing sleep over it.
Formula 3 is actually a thing. Also formerly called Formula Junior.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 07:06 AM   #100
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sweet. 400 cubes is a happy middle ground. make it look like a proper supersport, none of this snout nose silliness like the 650 and 1000. And make it a proper full size bike so I don't feel like I'm cramped up on a toy. But keep it a twin and make it a revver so it's still light and fun and usable.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 10:28 AM   #101
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Formula 3 is actually a thing. Also formerly called Formula Junior.
Also called Superlite down this part of the world.
Last round of our championship today.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 01:43 PM   #102
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Guess I will be upgrading in 2019....or end of 2018. I love my 300, but I will need to upgrade to either the 650 or 400. I am leaning toward the 400 due to weight and seat height.
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Old November 4th, 2017, 02:10 PM   #103
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Also called Superlite down this part of the world.
Last round of our championship today.
Badass! I couldn't tell if you were being facetious about something or not. Congrats on an awesome hobby and good luck!
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Old November 4th, 2017, 11:49 PM   #104
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Badass! I couldn't tell if you were being facetious about something or not. Congrats on an awesome hobby and good luck!
Cheers, yeah i need to knock the facetious stuff on the head.

I love my F3 racing. Last year I was 2nd in class on a GSXR400 so this year I got more serious and invested in a properly set up for racing SV650 and have had a string of wins and 2nd placings resulting in me winning my class championship today.
So I'm feeling very tired tonite but well pleased.

I would like to add that I live in a province of small population at the bottom of NZ so it's pretty much grass roots racing but we all help each other out and enjoy ourselves.

Unfortunately we dont have enough numbers for a dedicated 300cc class in my province.

It's a great sport, just a shame the grid numbers are dwindling by the year.

Sorry this is all off topic and has no relevance to the Kwaka 400.
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Old November 7th, 2017, 01:05 AM   #105
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufNB2YWsL7U

Maybe this bike will make Honda and Kawasaki get serious about performance parts on small displacement bikes. It looks somewhat interesting. I wonder what the price will be.
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Old November 7th, 2017, 05:08 AM   #106
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufNB2YWsL7U

Maybe this bike will make Honda and Kawasaki get serious about performance parts on small displacement bikes. It looks somewhat interesting. I wonder what the price will be.
435 lbs. Ugh.
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Old November 7th, 2017, 10:35 AM   #107
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435 lbs. Ugh.
Yes that is a shame, seems like the bike has a half decent motor. Must be designed for a 650cc engine or such like as well perhaps. Weighs the same as the latest 1000cc sportsters.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #108
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It's clearly a move by Kawasaki to compete in racing against the R3 and RC390, both of which tend to dominate the Ultralight classes. Honestly it's pretty ****** because they literally had a 500 up until 2009, and now they're pretty much bringing back the same thing just fuel injected. They need to make up their mind, and actually come up with something new for the smaller displacement side. Kawasaki tends to focus on the large side and come out with things like the Ninja H2 and H2R, but leave anything smaller than the ZX10R as an afterthought.
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Old November 10th, 2017, 08:02 AM   #109
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Kawasaki tends to focus on the large side and come out with things like the Ninja H2 and H2R, but leave anything smaller than the ZX10R as an afterthought.
I don't buy that.

Kawi was the ONLY manufacturer actually paying attention to little bikes for.... well, decades, and they never stopped. Offerings in that class from the other three were, for a long time, utter jokes. Some still are. Kawi was able to rest on its laurels because it had no competition -- hence the slow pace of development on the 250. That's not the case anymore.

Kawi isn't waffling and unable to make up its mind. It is simply responding to the market. The 500 was discontinued because it wasn't selling, period. The 400 has been introduced because it will be seen as a better choice in the class, period. The obvious target is the bike that competes directly: The R3. The RC is taller (a BIG deal to the target market), weirder, more focused, less available. The CBR doesn't really stand up head-to-head. Suzuki is late to the game and, well, yawn. If any manufacturer is REALLY treating small bikes as an afterthought, it's them.

We go on and on about racing rules and how the 400 is going to screw things up, but never forget: Racers are NOT the target market. Put yourself in the shoes of a novice rider. Judge the class based on that. The 400 is a smart move.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 06:45 AM   #110
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It's clearly a move by Kawasaki to compete in racing against the R3 and RC390, both of which tend to dominate the Ultralight classes. Honestly it's pretty ****** because they literally had a 500 up until 2009, and now they're pretty much bringing back the same thing just fuel injected. They need to make up their mind, and actually come up with something new for the smaller displacement side. Kawasaki tends to focus on the large side and come out with things like the Ninja H2 and H2R, but leave anything smaller than the ZX10R as an afterthought.
Kawasaki is a company driven by profit as is Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Harley, Ducati and most other bike manufactures. They build what they think will sell. For a long time smaller displacement bikes weren't selling well in the US so they didn't put a lot of effort into them. Now all bike sales are down and making fun smaller displacement bikes is one strategy to get new riders. I think the popularity of the Grom a few years ago when it came out took the industry by surprise. But now smaller bike are the hot thing.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 09:12 AM   #111
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On a side small-bike note, the just-released CB300R looks fantastic. Super-light, really attractive, ought to be a hoot. Even has some of the features we've been asking for: 41mm USD forks, radial-mount front brake....

I'm not a naked bike guy as a rule, but I could easily see myself owning one of these for the vast majority of street riding I do.

If I were a Kawi product manager, I'd be seriously considering a naked/roadster version of the 400 as the next thing out of the chute.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 10:32 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
On a side small-bike note, the just-released CB300R looks fantastic. Super-light, really attractive, ought to be a hoot. Even has some of the features we've been asking for: 41mm USD forks, radial-mount front brake....

I'm not a naked bike guy as a rule, but I could easily see myself owning one of these for the vast majority of street riding I do.

If I were a Kawi product manager, I'd be seriously considering a naked/roadster version of the 400 as the next thing out of the chute.
Do you guys have this model? Sounds pretty much like what your suggesting.

http://www.kawasaki.co.nz/catalog/st...00AGF/overview

Yeah the CB is a stylish looking machine and a nice improvement on the old model. Like you said, good to see a few trick bits filtering through to smaller bikes.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 02:48 PM   #113
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On a side small-bike note, the just-released CB300R looks fantastic.
But then you put it next to the CB1000... humminah humminah!
hnnngggg
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Old November 13th, 2017, 03:02 PM   #114
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But then you put it next to the CB1000... humminah humminah!
hnnngggg
I hear that.

But having had a 750 supersport as my daily ride for going on five years now, it has become abundantly clear to me that small, cheap bikes make a whole lot more sense in the real world.

I'm almost tempted to sell my GSXR and get one, but only "almost." I really wish I had room in my marriage for another bike....
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Old November 14th, 2017, 07:16 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
On a side small-bike note, the just-released CB300R looks fantastic. Super-light, really attractive, ought to be a hoot. Even has some of the features we've been asking for: 41mm USD forks, radial-mount front brake....

I'm not a naked bike guy as a rule, but I could easily see myself owning one of these for the vast majority of street riding I do.

If I were a Kawi product manager, I'd be seriously considering a naked/roadster version of the 400 as the next thing out of the chute.
I'd like to see a Versys version of the 400, which will probably come along next year.
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Old November 17th, 2017, 08:15 AM   #116
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I wanna 400; I wouldn't mind a hella built 300 either though
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Old December 1st, 2017, 08:58 AM   #117
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Latest 400 info -

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...o-america.html

More - http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2017/...pecifications/

Claimed 20 pound lighter than the 300.

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Old December 1st, 2017, 09:50 AM   #118
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3.7-gallon fuel tank sucks
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Old December 1st, 2017, 10:27 AM   #119
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3.7-gallon fuel tank sucks
Yeah, that's one of those gimmicks used to get low wet-weight. KTM cheated with RC390 and gave it 2-gal tank! Wow, lower wet-weight than the competition!


So... the new 400 is going to weigh right in between a pregen and newgen 250... interesting...

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Old December 1st, 2017, 01:20 PM   #120
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Is it a upsized 300 engine or a downsized 650 or neither? To me coming out with more versions of the H2 is silly. Well maybe here anyway. A friend just got a left over for a good discount as the dealer couldn't get rid of it. Another dealer offered to send one over to his local dealer with a bow on it to get rid of it.

NEVER MIND I GUESS ITS AN ENGINE OF ITS OWN DUE TO THE CYLINDER ANGLE BEING NEW.
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