Seized 2003 250 :/

[BenjaNinja92]

Hey there. First post for me. Unfortunately I seized the engine on my 2003 ninja 250. Ran it embarrassingly low on oil. Go ahead and roast me for that. Anyways.. Looking to put a new engine in it. Where's the best place to find one. Also, I'm not incredibly mechanically inclined and this may be a dumb question, but could I replace just the bottom end? Thanks in advance for your help.

[Ghostt]

You'd be better off to find another complete running engine, they aren't worth rebuilding, I compare them to a BIC LIGHTER. Due to they plentifully and cheap enough, about $300~$500

Check eBay, local motorcycle salvage yards, Craig's list,, look for one's that been totalled, all you need is the engine, or a fellow forum member that's close by.

Sorry about your luck, no roasting from me, just live and learn.

Good luck.

[MrAtom]

It's strange how few new-owners of vehicles know that it's bad to run it low on oil. You're not the first, and I assure you, you won't be the last. Don't beat yourself up over it. If you're not mechanically inclined, see what a shop will charge to put a new engine in it. If you think you can do it without messing it up, see what used engines cost.

I wish you the best!

[Z1R rider]

Yep, these little guys all seem to use a little oil. Of the six in our family six use about a 1 to 1-1/2 cups of oil per day pounding on them at the track. Our bikes vary from 5000 to 14000 miles. Modern cars are so dependable people don't think to check oil or coolant levels anymore. A little story about oil level...when #2 son was buying his 250 from a collage kid, as they talked about the deal I checked the oil and had to have the bike leaned over so far it was almost on top of me, and the owner questioned "what the _ell you doing", he didn't even know how to check the oil level.

And, welcome to the board!

[spent_too_much]

I just replaced a motor in my pregen. By the time that I sourced a parts bike with a good engine, tore the MC half apart to do the swap, reassembled everything, and fine tuned it - I would have been better off selling it as is, and picking up another 250 to start with. If you can find a decent 250 for around a grand, you might want to consider selling yours, and going that route.

Again, just my 2 cents.

This wasn't the doner bike, but how far I had to get into mine to do the swap! A few more steps, and I would have rebuilt it from scratch!

[spent_too_much]

If you do decide to find a replacement motor, check a few things:

If possible, hear it run - listen for knocks.
Drain the oil, and look for "gold specs" - not good.
Lastly, remove the oil screen and check for nuggets - there shouldn't be anymetal in there.


Ask me how I learned this...

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

You'd be better off to find another complete running engine, they aren't worth rebuilding, I compare them to a BIC LIGHTER. Due to they plentifully and cheap enough, about $300~$500

Check eBay, local motorcycle salvage yards, Craig's list,, look for one's that been totalled, all you need is the engine, or a fellow forum member that's close by.

Sorry about your luck, no roasting from me, just live and learn.

Good luck.

Wow! You're the second guy on a forum (I don't remember which one) to bad mouth the little 250. The other guy referred to the 250 as a "dispoable" engine. Good God, any engine that cranks 13.5k RPM on plain bearings is amazing enough. The fact that little sucker puts out over 2 H.P. per cubic inch - naturally aspirated on crappy pump regular gasoline!! Some guys are getting around 100k miles out of them - and still going. I consider my pre-gen to the best engineered and designed engine I have ever owned (over my previous 8 bikes). It may be cheap but it is in no way unsophisticated. Picture your 350 C.I. Chevy putting out 700 H.P.

Cheers,

Bill

[Triple Jim]

Bill, I got the impression that Ghostt said they're not worth rebuilding because it's cheaper to buy a good used engine than to rebuild one, not because he feels it's not a good engine. That's not bad-mouthing at all.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Bill, I got the impression that Ghostt said they're not worth rebuilding because it's cheaper to buy a good used engine than to rebuild one, not because he feels it's not a good engine. That's not bad-mouthing at all.

I agree with Ghostt. If you can spend $500.00 for a good used engine it makes no sense to spend $750.00 to $1,000.00 restoring one. However, comparing the 250 engine to a BIC lighter is like comparing a Ferrari Enzo to a 1963 Dodge Dart. I don't think a-lot of our younger members appreciate what they have. I have the perspective of a 69 year old with over 50 years experience wrenching on motorcycles and I know a diamond in the rough when I see one. Also, my lil' Kaw and I will be celebrating our 3 month anniversary on 06/06/17. We're still on our honeymoon.

Bill

[Cra1g]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

However, comparing the 250 engine to a BIC lighter is like comparing a Ferrari Enzo to a 1963 Dodge Dart.

I don't think he meant that Bic lighters are crap. Bic lighters do their job extremely well, but they're still so cheap and disposable that it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money to rebuild one when you could just buy a new one for the same cost (or even less).

[Ghostt]

Thats exactly what I meant they are disposable engines.

It doesn't pay to rebuild them considering how cheap and plentifully they are

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Thats exactly what I meant they are disposable engines.

It doesn't pay to rebuild them considering how cheap and plentifully they are

Absolutely true.

They will last almost forever if you do the right things, but if they are severely damaged it's not economically feasible to completely rebuild one given how plentiful they are.

We got our "Ninja Beater" crashed with about 18,000 mi on it. Gas looked like muddy water. Oil looked about the same. After doing regular maintenance it's been running strong for the last 6,000 miles, spending most of it's time over 10,000 RPMs. Uses only minimal oil.

Given it's original condition, that's surprising.

Unlike some other 250s (namely the CBR) it takes quite a bit to really melt one down.

[CaliGrrl]

Sorry you seized it. That doesn't sound like fun at all. Hopefully you can get the engine replaced or rebuilt and be back on the road again.

[A.J.]

I just watched a motor get pulled today. I tell u honestly for the pain in the ass it is sell yours as is and find a cheap 250. Good luck man.

[choneofakind]

^^ Lies. It's 3 bolts, some electrical connectors, and some plumbing.

3 hours if you know what you're doing and are putting the same model engine back in.

[Timpo]

lol engine rebuild is extremely tedious...you have to take everything apart, diagnose and see which parts are wrong, order new parts, clean everything, etc.

you better off buying a new engine.

Ninja 300 engine swap?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dECqWm8GBdA

[taz]

Originally Posted by timpo

lol engine rebuild is extremely tedious...you have to take everything apart, diagnose and see which parts are wrong, order new parts, clean everything, etc.

You better off buying a new engine.

Ninja 300 engine swap? :d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=decqwm8gbda

nice now that definitely means i need to buy the parts 300 in my town.

[Z1R rider]

cheater!

[Cra1g]

Originally Posted by taz

nice now that definitely means i need to buy the parts 300 in my town.

IIRC a 300 engine in a 250 frame isn't even close to a direct fit.

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by Cra1g

IIRC a 300 engine in a 250 frame isn't even close to a direct fit.

I think somebody on this forum said that engine itself is nearly identical externally.

The challenge for most people is the EFI system...where to mount ECU and all the wiring etc.

[spent_too_much]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

^^ Lies. It's 3 bolts, some electrical connectors, and some plumbing.

3 hours if you know what you're doing and are putting the same model engine back in.

But you have to get to those 3 bolts, and electrical connectors... Don't forget about removing and reinstalling the carbs. That's always fun.

[BenjaNinja92]

Thank you all for the replies. Luckily in the mean time a friend is loaning me his 81 Honda cb900. Not the same but it's fast and two wheels and still a lot of fun.

So my plan is to replace the engine. I could sell as is and buy another but there aren't many out there right now for the right price and I haven't had this one long enough to take that big of a loss on it. Found plenty of engines on eBay for $400-600. To me it's worth it to put the new engine in and learn a hell of a lot along the way. I'll keep you all updated along the process and ask any questions I may have.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by BenjaNinja92

Thank you all for the replies. Luckily in the mean time a friend is loaning me his 81 Honda cb900. Not the same but it's fast and two wheels and still a lot of fun.

So my plan is to replace the engine. I could sell as is and buy another but there aren't many out there right now for the right price and I haven't had this one long enough to take that big of a loss on it. Found plenty of engines on eBay for $400-600. To me it's worth it to put the new engine in and learn a hell of a lot along the way. I'll keep you all updated along the process and ask any questions I may have.

It sound like you might be considering installing a pre 2008 engine. Smart! Replacing the engine is a big enough project without having to fabricate brackets and a zillion other considerations you'd face installing a 2008 or newer engine. Besides, you won't like doing a valve adjustment on a 2003 but you'll HATE doing the same on a 2008. Keep looking.

Bill

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by spent_too_much

But you have to get to those 3 bolts, and electrical connectors... Don't forget about removing and reinstalling the carbs. That's always fun.

The carbs are easy if you either cut the battery box off the airbox or go to pod filters. That turns an annoying 10 minute wrestling match with the airbox into a 30-second no brainer.

So far, putting a newgen engine in it isn't terrible either. A few minutes in the evening here and there and she's coming together. The only bracket I'm having to fabricate/think about is to mount the pregen radiator in the newgen engine mounts. Everything else is just a case of hunting down the right part numbers in the diagrams online and seeing what I need vs what I have.

[BenjaNinja92]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

It sound like you might be considering installing a pre 2008 engine. Smart! Replacing the engine is a big enough project without having to fabricate brackets and a zillion other considerations you'd face installing a 2008 or newer engine. Besides, you won't like doing a valve adjustment on a 2003 but you'll HATE doing the same on a 2008. Keep looking.

Bill

Yeah I've researched a lot about putting in new gen or even a 300 and I saw at least one guy who did a 500 but this is a big enough job as it is. I'd rather not make it worse or totally screw it up. So straight across the board replacement it is!

[BenjaNinja92]

Update for anyone still reading: MY BIKE IS BACK ON THE ROAD!

Swapped out the engine and I gotta say it really wasn't all that bad.. I'm not incredibly mechanically inclined and I was able to do it.

[Z1R rider]

sweet enjoy!

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by BenjaNinja92

Update for anyone still reading: MY BIKE IS BACK ON THE ROAD!

Swapped out the engine and I gotta say it really wasn't all that bad.. I'm not incredibly mechanically inclined and I was able to do it.

The road to success is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration. Congratulations. Now you've got a bunch of spares from your old engine.

Bill

[GixSixR1S3Ninj]

What kind of oil?

[taz]

Originally Posted by BenjaNinja92

Update for anyone still reading: MY BIKE IS BACK ON THE ROAD!

Swapped out the engine and I gotta say it really wasn't all that bad.. I'm not incredibly mechanically inclined and I was able to do it.

sweet, and as for the 300 that was going to be a parts one it turned out to be good and is getting road around now.

[DannoXYZ]

Great work! Good to see a bike revived instead of going to breakers!

[CaliGrrl]

Glad you're back on the road!

[BenjaNinja92]

Originally Posted by spent_too_much

I just replaced a motor in my pregen. By the time that I sourced a parts bike with a good engine, tore the MC half apart to do the swap, reassembled everything, and fine tuned it - I would have been better off selling it as is, and picking up another 250 to start with. If you can find a decent 250 for around a grand, you might want to consider selling yours, and going that route.

Again, just my 2 cents.

This wasn't the doner bike, but how far I had to get into mine to do the swap! A few more steps, and I would have rebuilt it from scratch!

You actually took off quite a bit more than you needed to.. my bike didn't look remotely as stripped when I dropped the old engine out.. and honestly, it was easier than the paperwork i would've had to do at the DMV to sell the bike and buy a new one.

[BenjaNinja92]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

The carbs are easy if you either cut the battery box off the airbox or go to pod filters. That turns an annoying 10 minute wrestling match with the airbox into a 30-second no brainer.

So far, putting a newgen engine in it isn't terrible either. A few minutes in the evening here and there and she's coming together. The only bracket I'm having to fabricate/think about is to mount the pregen radiator in the newgen engine mounts. Everything else is just a case of hunting down the right part numbers in the diagrams online and seeing what I need vs what I have.

Carbs were easy.. took 5 minutes to get the carbs and the airbox back in. Airbox is pretty easy if you just take it apart.. didn't even have to cut the battery box.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by BenjaNinja92

it was easier than the paperwork i would've had to do at the DMV to sell the bike and buy a new one.

This is the part I'm a little worried about. Is this a CA thing or a BMV thing?

[spent_too_much]

Originally Posted by BenjaNinja92

You actually took off quite a bit more than you needed to.. my bike didn't look remotely as stripped when I dropped the old engine out.

I kept removing more and more, in order to get to the actual parts that I was trying to remove. Do you have any pics of the process? I am always open to doing something easier.

[spent_too_much]

I'm glad that you are back on the road!

[BenjaNinja92]

Originally Posted by spent_too_much

I kept removing more and more, in order to get to the actual parts that I was trying to remove. Do you have any pics of the process? I am always open to doing something easier.

This is really the only pic I have of it stripped. This was with everything detached from the engine just bto fore I dropped it out.
I removed:
Plastics
Seat
Tank
Radiator
Fuel filter
Headers
Exhaust
Miscellaneous hoses/wires/cables
Chain
Carburetor
Airbox


Believe those are all the main things, save for a few miscellaneous what nots. But yeah, really not bad and was a good experience. I know the ins and outs of my bike now pretty well.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by BenjaNinja92

This is really the only pic I have of it stripped. This was with everything detached from the engine just bto fore I dropped it out.
I removed:
Plastics
Seat
Tank
Radiator
Fuel filter
Headers
Exhaust
Miscellaneous hoses/wires/cables
Chain
Carburetor
Airbox


Believe those are all the main things, save for a few miscellaneous what nots. But yeah, really not bad and was a good experience. I know the ins and outs of my bike now pretty well.

Whaaaat? You left the air in the tires? !

Bill

[BenjaNinja92]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

Whaaaat? You left the air in the tires? !

Bill

Haha.. not much. Front tire had 12 PSI when I brought it in to get changed after I put it all back together