The Drinking Age

[Rawr]

Writing a paper about this...so i was curious about your thougths

[smcbride11]

I'm not honestly sure what I think...

I voted no, but I don't think it's a black and white yes or no. I do believe that the drinking age should be lowered to 18 - virtually everyone I know has had a few drinks by then anyway.

However - and I strongly believe this - we should maintain zero tolerance for DUI until 21 (or later, preferably). I was definitely not mature enough at 18 to have a beer or two and drive like a normal person, and I don't honestly think I was able to do so at 21 either... Hell, at 31 there are nights when I make bad decisions.

I'd say the ideal situation would be a drinking age of 18, but a "drinking while driving" age (where you can be above 0.00 but not above 0.08) of somewhere between 21 and 25.

There's too many conflicting ages in our society (16ish to drive, 18 to smoke and go to war, 21 to drink, 25 to rent a car without an absurd surcharge), and I do think we'd be better off flattening the numbers a bit to be more logical.

[GreezMunky]

Without getting into too much detail because I'm in a rush, this is what I've always heard and believed. If you're old enough to sign your life away and go off to war and possibly die for your country, you should be old enough to have a damn beer.

[GreezMunky]

Originally Posted by smcbride11

However - and I strongly believe this - we should maintain zero tolerance for DUI until 21 (or later, preferably). I was definitely not mature enough at 18 to have a beer or two and drive like a normal person, and I don't honestly think I was able to do so at 21 either... Hell, at 31 there are nights when I make bad decisions.

I'd say the ideal situation would be a drinking age of 18, but a "drinking while driving" age (where you can be above 0.00 but not above 0.08) of somewhere between 21 and 25.

+1 Never thought about it that way. Very interesting and something I completely agree with.

[Realirony]

Going with what Tor said, I think that if you are old enough to die for your country then you are old enough to drink. I know that people drink at 18 (some even before then) but they do so ilegally. I agree as well that there should be zero tolerance for DUIs for those under 21 if so. When I traveled to Colombia, South America in 2007 and lived there for about 6 months the drinking age was 18 (as well as in Canada if I remember right) and everyone there was very mature about it. It wasnt like saying "hey guys lets go get wasted tonight" it was more of a "lets go have a few drinks and converse while relaxing" I went out to local bars and night clubs while i was in colombia with 18 yr olds and they handled their alcohol in moderation a bit better than some of my american friends. I suppose the drinking age should be more about mental maturity rather than physical maturity.

If we make 18 the legal age though, we would be incouraging a probable further under-age drinking, as in, why wait until 18 when you can start at 14 or 16. Its the same with all legal things of this matter. If we lower the age, there will still be people younger wanting to not have to wait those extra year or two. Its a touchy subject though because I know of those that would swear that drinking alcohol shouldnt be allowed until one is over 40 years old when you have reached that mental maturity to understand the world and partake in such things. And yet still others that thinks it should be banned outright because it ruins so many lives and even kills. But like all those commercials say "take in moderation" which is what I think all things, alcohol or not should heed. heh I type too much. sorry, still in college paper mode XD

[Snake]

I say no.

I grew up in California where as long as I can remember the drinking age has been 21.
I went into the Air Force when I was 18 and was allowed to drink. Let me tell you I was definetly not mature enough to handle myself. I was lucky I was able to get to the barracks after partying all night. I would wake up in the morning with a hangover and have to look out the window out to the parking lot to make sure my truck parked there and in one peice. When I hit 20 is when I started controling myself better and having more fun watching the other crazy drunks and thinking to myself: "I used to act just like that".

[capt_bugaloo]

It's a tough call. One the one hand there are some teens who are very mature and could handle alcohol at 18 or even younger, yet other people who are 21 (or 31, or 41, or...) who are idiots and shouldn't be drinking at all.

Maybe they ought to have a drinker's licence: you would have to do a test to prove you are knowledgeable about the dangers of alcohol, and understand what your limits are... but that sounds really unenforceable and would be just another bit of government bureaucracy to deal with.

Sorry, I have no answers on this one...

[Realirony]

oooo i like that alcohol license idea. though you are right, it would be hard to enforce kinda like the whole no texting or cell phone use while driving. Or the "you have to have a driver of 3 years in your passenger seat while you have your learner permit" It's something that you would have to profile someone to really enforce.
Maybe instead of a license, just become stricter on alcohol laws like 1 DUI and you lose your license indefinitly instead of the 3 strikes you get now. Or perhaps a limit on the amount of drinks one can purchase at a bar setting. But then those rules would just be bent as well.
sometimes I think it would be best if there was just an anarchy rule or a mob mentality about the whole deal. heh XD

[BlueTyke]

Originally Posted by rcuriel

I say no.

I grew up in California where as long as I can remember the drinking age has been 21.
I went into the Air Force when I was 18 and was allowed to drink. Let me tell you I was definetly not mature enough to handle myself. I was lucky I was able to get to the barracks after partying all night. I would wake up in the morning with a hangover and have to look out the window out to the parking lot to make sure my truck parked there and in one peice. When I hit 20 is when I started controling myself better and having more fun watching the other crazy drunks and thinking to myself: "I used to act just like that".

Even after your own experiences as you stated you would still have the age limit lowered?

I personally have 0 tollerance for drinking and driving. I have lost one to many family members to someone who got drunk, got behind the wheel, and got into an accident. Three gots that could have been prevented. I dont think it mattered how old they were if they were doing it. 18 or 35 they were still irresponsible...

I don't like it when people get drunk. Drinking is okay it is just when it is in excess that I have an issue with it. Even grown adults don't know the difference between Drinking and Drunk.

So really there is no one true age but I still said no.

I see the point of the signing up for the Military and being able to make that decision and it is a good one to consider. But the youth today are not giving me to much hope for the future.

[Rawr]

kk...let me put a new spin on this

the main reason this whole debate came up was that college presidents felt that by lowering the drinking age to 18, it would remove the "forbidden fruit" aspect of alcohol...they feel this will reduce binge drinking at 21...as now that they can drink they will drink as much as they can

personally...i feel the binge drinking is a product of the enviroment...i am in college...and i binge drink because im with friends and that is what i do, drink to get drunk....however...i never drink alone...and im pretty sure that people my age (22-23) that arent in college, drink far less than those of the same age not in college

im going to start a new poll based on that.

NEW BINGE DRINKING POLL UP HERE
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18186

[Rawr]

Originally Posted by BlueTyke

Even after your own experiences as you stated you would still have the age limit lowered?

...im pretty sure he voted against reducing the drinking age

[BlueTyke]

People will still binge at 18 and the sad thing is they will be in High School not College.

[Snake]

Originally Posted by BlueTyke

Even after your own experiences as you stated you would still have the age limit lowered?

I personally have 0 tollerance for drinking and driving. I have lost one to many family members to someone who got drunk, got behind the wheel, and got into an accident. Three gots that could have been prevented. I dont think it mattered how old they were if they were doing it. 18 or 35 they were still irresponsible...

I don't like it when people get drunk. Drinking is okay it is just when it is in excess that I have an issue with it. Even grown adults don't know the difference between Drinking and Drunk.

So really there is no one true age but I still said no.

I see the point of the signing up for the Military and being able to make that decision and it is a good one to consider. But the youth today are not giving me to much hope for the future.

Sorry Sunny,

At first I put yes by mistake and then edited my answer to no. I am totaly against lowering the drinking age.

[zail]

Hmm.. in the UK we have a drinking age of 18 although in most shops you now have to prove you are 21 to buy alcohol... As we have the worst binge drinking stats in Europe (esp amoungst teenage girls) there is no guarentee that lowering drinking age will lessen this behaviour...

[TnNinjaGirl]

I think if you are old enough to die for your country, pay taxes, and are otherwise considered a legal adult, you should be able to drink alcohol.

I've been to countries where the drinking age is lower than 21. Germany, Italy, France... In these countries it is considered a way of life and not "drinking." You just do it. You drink with breakfast, lunch and dinner. Not to get drunk, but to drink, as a drink. There were some husky guys at a German bar who got pretty drunk one night, but they were by no means beligerent.

On Friday night I went to a party where there was drinking (shh!!!). 2 guys had a contest with tequila shots. I ended up having to dead-weight drag a 25 yr old guy to the bathroom by myself so he wouldn't choke on his own vomit. He managed to throw up on me several times. Never met the guy before. Americans think this is acceptable.

There should be no tolerance for drinking and driving. Period.

It has more to do with culture than with age. We simply do not respect the effects of alcohol. No age limit is going to fix that.

[Snake]

Originally Posted by TnNinjaGirl

I think if you are old enough to die for your country, pay taxes, and are otherwise considered a legal adult, you should be able to drink alcohol.

I've been to countries where the drinking age is lower than 21. Germany, Italy, France... In these countries it is considered a way of life and not "drinking." You just do it. You drink with breakfast, lunch and dinner. Not to get drunk, but to drink, as a drink. There were some husky guys at a German bar who got pretty drunk one night, but they were by no means beligerent.

On Friday night I went to a party where there was drinking (shh!!!). 2 guys had a contest with tequila shots. I ended up having to dead-weight drag a 25 yr old guy to the bathroom by myself so he wouldn't choke on his own vomit. He managed to throw up on me several times. Never met the guy before. Americans think this is acceptable.

There should be no tolerance for drinking and driving. Period.

It has more to do with culture than with age. We simply do not respect the effects of alcohol. No age limit is going to fix that.

Very true, you have to know your limits. That comes with age and experience.

[TnNinjaGirl]

Unfortunately to know your limits you either have to be very mature (ya right!!!), reach them, or pass them. Most people don't know when to stop which rules out one and 2. So most "kids" end up making very bad decisions. Like lots of tequila shots.

[Daeldren]

Dang Corey, thats disgusting I don't know whether to feel sorry for you or the guy.

[TnNinjaGirl]

I'll take pity when I can get it.

[xTKx]

According to the poll results it looks like it's pretty close! I'm completely against it, here's why:

The invincibility factor. Most kids that age (especially young males) have the misconception of invincibility wherein they think they can do whatever they want and most have absolutely no regard for the outcome or consequences. Matt, I'll take a little of what you said and a little of what Sunny said to try and condense my thoughts.

I don't think there's so much of a "forbidden fruit" aspect of alcohol seeing as kids around 18 seem to start to try it and experiment with it anyway. As you said, I think social environment is a huge factor that has to do with alcohol experimentation and "binge drinking." I never once got drunk in high school (or any other time for that matter), for two reasons:
1. My personal faith
2. I didn't surround myself with people who decided to make those choices.
Now, for what Sunny said, I completely agree. Though lowering the legal age limit to 18 may reduce the number of "binge drinkers" at the specific age of 21, you'd then increase the number of binge drinkers at a younger age, most of which would still be in high school. High schools are already plagued with an epidemic that "drinking and partying" has become the cool thing. Now remove the fact that alcohol wouldn't be illegal for them to buy and IMO, I think you'd increase the number of drunk drivers (again, the "invincibility factor"), number of binge drinkers (especially at a younger age), and potentially the number of alcoholics (though that in itself may seem a little bit of a stretch).

Just my

[Techno250]

Originally Posted by Rawr

personally...i feel the binge drinking is a product of the enviroment...i am in college...and i binge drink because im with friends and that is what i do, drink to get drunk....however...i never drink alone...

Some of you may know that I work in a forensic counseling center. Not a counselor, but the lab monkey that runs the drug tests. That quote above scares the crap outta me. I agree that binge drinking is a product of the environment, but the individual's actions cannot be disregarded, nor excused, for such behavior. Binge drinking, alone or with friends, has many dangers--not the least of which are accidents and acute alcohol poisoning. Just because "everybody else is doing it" does not mean it's okay.

and im pretty sure that people my age (22-23) that arent in college, drink far less than those of the same age not in college

Come to Georgia sometime. Where I'm from, the people that didn't go to college are the ones who drink more.

I will say, though, that if you're old enough to die for your country, then you should be able to drink, but only if you enlist!

[BlueRaven]

" it would remove the "forbidden fruit" aspect of alcohol...they feel this will reduce binge drinking at 21...as now that they can drink they will drink as much as they can"

the drinking age in nb canada is 19. i started drinking when i was in my early teens with my dad and friends. when i hit 19 i became an alcoholic. thank god i didn't get my driver's licence till 21 when i was sober. i don't think it will reduce the drinking in college i think it might actually increase the incidents of alcohol poisining. just my 2 cents.

[TnNinjaGirl]

If you make laws, they will be broken. I mean, if we didn't want drinking to be illegal we'd make the drinking age 3. It doesn't matter if the age is 20, 21 or 22 and 3 days. There will be 15 and 16 yr olds who drink.

I think there should be more education and not so many "scare tactics." My dad used to let me drive our Jeep Cherokee on public roads when we went to the mountains. I have been "legally" driving since I was 16. I have been "illegally" driving since I was 9. My dad taught me the fundamentals of driving at an early age. I have not had an accident where statiscally I should have had been in about 20. Most, if not all of my friends have been the direct cause of an accident. Most, if not all of them got their keys when they turned 16 and took off. Am I different, yes. Does experience help? Yes. I don't think we should start letting kids get drunk at 9, but I think that if we introduce them to the effects (in a positive way much like Europe) then the results would be less devastating.

[CC Cowboy]

18 if you're in the service.

[kazam58]

This is an interesting (and touchy) subject and often seems to be situational. In high school there will always be tons of people who drink, whether the legal age be 18 or 21, it's just what they do, and have been doing for a long time. Of course there are those, myself included, who have hardly drank anything, and probably won't until we're well past 21. For me it's not about morals, religion, or anything like that. I just don't see the fun in it and it all tastes like sh*t to me anyway. However, some may say that I'm at an abnormal level of maturity at my age, and so my opinion is rather void when it comes to the masses. Education on alcohol and scare tactics and what not really seem to have an absolutely minimal effect, if any at all, from my own observations at my school. It doesn't matter where the drinking age is, people who drink dangerously will do so regardless of what it is. Lowering the drinking age will simply result in more people having drinks casually at dinner and such. Of course I could be wrong. I was raised in one of those European families that someone mentioned earlier, and ever since I can remember, there was a beer in front of my parents' plates during every dinner. People here drink to get drunk, elsewhere it seems that people drink more so just because they like it, and don't get wasted every time. Personally, I wouldn't help those who do nearly kill themselves from drinking, it might help cleanse the gene pool a little. As for drinking and driving, there should simply be a zero tolerance policy like most other places. The penalties for driving drunk in most of Europe are infinitely harsher than here.
I guess I just think that the privilege should be extended to all adults who are remotely responsible. The consequences for misusing alcohol should be the same whether your 41 or 21.
Okay, this rant is over.

[BlueJeepYJ]

This is a really interesting discussion... of which I don't have a definitive opinion on the drinking age either way.

However, I believe that binge drinking, driving intoxicated, etc as related to young folks are more symptoms of a greater issue. I think us as young americans (cant (won't) speak for anybody else) have lost our moral, ethical and spiritual framework and direction. A lot of the people i grew up with had very little respect for authority, had their parents bail them out time and time again and were just plain spoiled. It seems today college is just a very expensive party (which the kid or the parents get to pay for for a long long time) that happens to get you a piece of paper that society has said you need. College has been pushed so hard to kids that it has become like an extension of high-school, "just something you do." It is not respected and in a lot of cases isn't what I would call higher education. So in effect, I realized that youth with the decreasing moral and spiritual character, too much time and too much money(probably their parents) will most likely get into trouble and with alcohol being the mascot of the collegiate years it wont make much difference it being legal or not.

Disclaimer-This is just my opinion and analysis of my circumstances that I experienced growing up. Your opinions may vary.

Thanks for reading!

Jeff

[Verus Cidere]

Well folks, this is one of those subjects where I am a VERY ABNORMAL teenager. I hate all drinking not in moderation. Period. I've seen family members, friends, and friends of friends DIE either from their own stupid decisions with alcohol, or others. I've watched families get torn apart because someone in the family just has to have another. I've personally watched my friend's relationships die because of alcohol. I've also had to pull my friends out of the way of speeding cars and out of bushes to try and get them home when they've had too many. One of my friends almost died right in front of me from alcohol poisoning. Just before this he walked up to me and asked, "do you think 12 is too much?" And most of them haven't learned yet! One friend in particular has been getting drunk every night for the past year or so. He quit his job (basically got fired because he stopped caring) right after moving out of his house to get an apartment with his friends.

I'll tell you exactly why the U.S. drinking age should NOT be lowered: Stupidity. The teens and "young adults" as they are so lightly called in this country are nowhere near the maturity level required to handle something so dangerous. Binge drinking is supposedly "fun" so they engage in it without a second thought. This destroys their lives and others as easily as starting a car. I'm sick and tired of people saying lowering the drinking age is going to make things better. There are ROCK HARD statistics on this people! When the drinking age was changed from 18 to 21 before, the number of deaths caused by drinking, whether it be poisoning or accidents, went down DRASTICALLY! That's good enough for me to say it shouldn't be lowered again.

In my personal opinion (and I know this is going to open Pandora's Box on my head, but I don't care) getting drunk for any reason should be illegal, in public or private, with friends or not, with a designated driver or not. Any intoxication, even as slight as one drink, while operating a motor vehicle of any kind should result in license revocation and multiple classes to prove responsibility. Ignition interlocks should be mandatory in these cases, as they are now. I'm sick of the destruction getting drunk has caused in so many lives. It's poison that's legal to give yourself and others. It doesn't make any sense.

My

[SteveL]

If you are old enough to fight for Uncle Sam your old enough to drink a beer.

Steve

[shporsche]

Hey,
Here in Aus legal drinking age is 18.

However I dont agree with the rule. I feel 21 should be the age?inst that what it is in USA.
I reckon L's and alcohol should be 21.

I say all this going from personal experience, even though I'm 21, I know when I was 18 I wasn't sensible enough. Did heaps of stupid stuff, got plenty of scarres to prove it.