Strange Problem, bike losing power and then stalling.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by g21-30

[THANKS!]...
Back to the CDI. One thing I was going to try, but settled on a retrofit, was come up with a way to cool the OEM CDI, via ice pack or something along those lines. What you might try is to go for a ride around your neighborhood (stay close to home) on a hot day. If the bike has the same problem, push it home and remove the CDI (side panels and seat first). Put the CDI in your freezer for an hour or so. After it's really cold, put it back on the bike and replace the seat (leave off side panels) and go for a ride (stay close to home). If you still have a problem starting the bike, prior to going for your test ride, I would be willing to bet you have a gas problem.

Except that the bikes always seem to work fine several minutes later, even with the same gas, even burning the rest of the tank. Basically, they stumble and die, then barely start with the choke only to stumble and die, then refuse to start at all until you've waited several minutes (usually, I am checking fluids at this point). After that, you can drive a couple thousand miles before experiencing it again. Putting the CDI in the freezer for several minutes is no different than waiting for several minutes because, either way, it likely isn't going to do it again for weeks.

Assuming we all have the same problem. I was left out because I didn't bother to describe my problem again, considering that I've done so in so many other threads in the past (since last summer). Considering that I've had it happen in the winter, I don't see any link to the CDI except that we all seem to have the noted variance... but if they are defective on one way I guess they can have other effects and very well may be relevant.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by g21-30

All wires on the pre-gen are identified. The Grey wire on the post-gen is what is left over and is still not identified as to what it controls. In the OEM schematic it goes from the ignition switch to the CDI!

If you do the mod or buy the BRT-TIS, you should jumper the side-stand switch.

Considering cost and labor for each, what is the best option.... Mod or TIS? I'm gonna wait for the issue to happen again before changing anything. Maybe I can pick up a TIS for my 2009 SE and then swap the CDI from that bike to my other one with the issue.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by g21-30

I just had another thought. adouglas recently experienced a bad vacuum control fuel valve, meaning fuel flowed from the tank without requiring a vacuum source to open the valve. It may be possible that you're experiencing the opposite, i.e. the valve is NOT allowing fuel to flow or there is something in the valve moving around, which clogs and then unclogs

You could try manually turning the valve to its PRI setting, which allows fuel to always flow. The downside to this is if the float is the problem, then fuel will possibly overflow. If fuel doesn't overflow, crank the bike up and go for a ride. If you don't have a problem, then you may have found the problem.

I too can say that I opened the fuel cap to verify the fuel level.....

[CZroe]

Oh, and I forgot to answer #4 above... yes, I left it for a couple months when I couldn't afford the first valve service. Actually, I left it for about ~1.5 months then drove it another 800 miles (over three tanks of gas) over a few week then left it another ~1.5 months. This was long after my Alabama incident which I now believe to have been the same issue (no longer believe that I ran out of fuel), so I hesitate to implicate it.

[g21-30]

JET - If it happens in the winter, I would bet your problem is NOT the CDI. Sounds like you possibly have something moving around in your gas tank, which briefly blocks the flow of gas. EDIT after your last post. Definitely leaning toward a fuel problem. Take the gas tank off and slosh the fuel around and empty into a plastic bucket with an old tee shirt over the bucket to act as a filter.

dubojr1 - You have the perfect setup, just swap your CDIs, since they are both the SAME!!!!!!!!!! If the problem moves to the other bike, problem solved, it's the CDI. If the problem bike still has a problem, then you have removed one item from consideration... Get to work.

As to the price differential, you would need to PM ztrack57 and ask the cost of the BRT-TIS non-programmable. The cost of the retrofit will vary based on what you pay for the wiring harness and CDI, both available on eBay.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by g21-30

JET - If it happens in the winter, I would bet your problem is NOT the CDI. Sounds like you possibly have something moving around in your gas tank, which briefly blocks the flow of gas.

dubojr1 - You have the perfect setup, just swap your CDIs, since they are both the SAME!!!!!!!!!! If the problem moves to the other bike, problem solved, it's the CDI. If the problem bike still has a problem, then you have removed one item from consideration... Get to work.

As to the price differential, you would need to PM ztrack57 and ask the cost of the BRT-TIS non-programmable. The cost of the retrofit will vary based on what you pay for the wiring harness and CDI, both available on eBay.

My point is that there is nothing in this thread linking it to the CDI except the OPs implication, so I doubt it's the CDI for ANY of us unless the same flaw that makes the RPMs temp-sensitive has other non-temp-related symptoms. If you read the thread again from this perspective, you will see what I mean. After the OP's suggestion, people just started talking about the old CDI problem and not THIS problem, which may be completely unrelated to the CDI. The only thing I know for sure is that I have a bad CDI, the OP does too, the others haven't said that they DON'T, etc. Heck, it was a normal temp in Alabama that December and I had been driving hundreds of miles that day, so I don't doubt that it got hot. San Diego "winters" are "winters" in name-only. It pretty much just means that it doesn't get "hot" outside. Of course, the one night-time winter rainy breakdown is the most damning of all. Yes, I let the bike warm up for a ridiculously long time but it also sat for 30 mins and the rain + night + cool weather no doubt countered that.

Edit: Oh, and good advice for dubojr1. I'm waiting to hear back. Do both exhibit the varying RPMs problem (the only confirmed CDI issue)?

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by g21-30

dubojr1 - You have the perfect setup, just swap your CDIs, since they are both the SAME!!!!!!!!!! If the problem moves to the other bike, problem solved, it's the CDI. If the problem bike still has a problem, then you have removed one item from consideration... Get to work.

As to the price differential, you would need to PM ztrack57 and ask the cost of the BRT-TIS non-programmable. The cost of the retrofit will vary based on what you pay for the wiring harness and CDI, both available on eBay.

I'll be doing some work on the 09 SE this weekend (15T sprocket) I think I'll go ahead and swap the CDI's to see what happens. My 09 SE runs so much smoother than the 08 and this could be the issue. It's prolly best cause the 08 will be rode by my wife now but it will only get limited use. I ride mine as much as I can now that I'm getting out of the break-in period. This way maybe we can figure this one out. Wish me luck!

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Edit: Oh, and good advice for dubojr1. I'm waiting to hear back. Do both exhibit the varying RPMs problem (the only confirmed CDI issue)?

Only the 2008 has the typical CDI issues with varying RPM's. The 2009 SE only has 400 miles on it though. The 2008 started the CDI issue after the 500 mile marker so I don't want to say the 09 doesn't have it but it has no symptoms as of yet.

On a different note.... even I make the swap, from what we are seeing here, it could be thousands of miles before the problem happens again.

[Buffalony]

Wow. What a wonderful and helpful community we have here.
I think theres to much seasoning on the steak here. (I'm part of the blame)

Sean, Jason. Do your tanks ever whine at all?

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by CZroe

My point is that there is nothing in this thread linking it to the CDI except the OPs implication, so I doubt it's the CDI for ANY of us unless the same flaw that makes the RPMs temp-sensitive has other non-temp-related symptoms. If you read the thread again from this perspective, you will see what I mean. After the OP's suggestion, people just started talking about the old CDI problem and not THIS problem, which may be completely unrelated to the CDI. The only thing I know for sure is that I have a bad CDI, the OP does too, the others haven't said that they DON'T, etc. Heck, it was a normal temp in Alabama that December and I had been driving hundreds of miles that day, so I don't doubt that it got hot. San Diego "winters" are "winters" in name-only. It pretty much just means that it doesn't get "hot" outside. Of course, the one night-time winter rainy breakdown is the most damning of all. Yes, I let the bike warm up for a ridiculously long time but it also sat for 30 mins and the rain + night + cool weather no doubt countered that.

Edit: Oh, and good advice for dubojr1. I'm waiting to hear back. Do both exhibit the varying RPMs problem (the only confirmed CDI issue)?

+1

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

Wow. What a wonderful and helpful community we have here.
I think theres to much seasoning on the steak here. (I'm part of the blame)

Sean, Jason. Do your tanks ever whine at all?

Both my bikes whine. I guess I should also mention that I tried the fuel cap mod to fix that on the troubled 08 250R but to no avail.

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

Both my bikes whine. I guess I should also mention that I tried the fuel cap mod to fix that on the troubled 08 250R but to no avail.

hmm. still a possibility ur SE is having a hard time getting fuel outta that tank.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

hmm. still a possibility ur SE is having a hard time getting fuel outta that tank.

Yeah...could still be a possibilty but why would the problem come and go and then the bike start back after a few minutes. It so makes me think something electrical.

It's actually the 2008 250R of mine that's having these issues. The 2009 SE is running great!

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

It's actually the 2008 250R of mine that's having these issues. The 2009 SE is running great!

I see

U said u did the gas cap mod on the 08. Wonder if thats actually the problem?? probably not, but I also wonder if others who have done that mod have experienced a similar problem. Maybe some of them will chime in here.

Did you flush the tank?
Check the petcock?

I just did the 15t sunday. Shiming the cush right now.
Let us know what ur findings are after that cdi swap.


off to work

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

I see

U said u did the gas cap mod on the 08. Wonder if thats actually the problem?? probably not, but I also wonder if others who have done that mod have experienced a similar problem. Maybe some of them will chime in here.

Did you flush the tank? NO
Check the petcock? NO

Haven't changed anything yet since the bike is running fine right now.

I just did the 15t sunday. Shiming the cush right now. What Sprocket you using. I didn't think this was necessary...
Let us know what ur findings are after that cdi swap. Sure will


off to work

[StealthESW]

Got a call from the dealer today and it looks like I will be getting a new tach installed as soon as the part comes in. Will keep you guys posted if you are interested.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by StealthESW

Got a call from the dealer today and it looks like I will be getting a new tach installed as soon as the part comes in. Will keep you guys posted if you are interested.

why the tach? it's the CDI that's defective.

[StealthESW]

Just have to play the game. Sort of at the mercy of "The Man", if you know what I mean.

Sure, I could ask them to change the CDI, but they will only say that Kawasaki has only authorized changing the tach at this time.

Besides, they can throw all the parts they want at it, if they don't fix it in a reasonable amount of time after a few trys they be buying it back. I don't care if it takes me getting a lawyer, if that is what it takes to get it cleared up for everyone else.

Who knows, the new tach could fix this bike. I strongly doubt it though.

[kkim]

please follow up and let us know how your situation turns out.

thanks

[StealthESW]

For sure. I plan on calling them Thursday. My work schedule has me working when the dealership is open. I'm off tomorrow so I will try to get more info then. Part of me hopes they can't fix it and dig deeper, maybe coming up with a fix or recall to help everyone out in the end.

Or at the very least maybe they send out bulletin.

On a side note, Kawasaki told my service tech that on a couple bikes have exibited the issue and they feel that it is not enough to dig too deep into it yet.

Maybe more people need to print out some stuff from the forums and take it to their service depot.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by StealthESW

For sure. I plan on calling them Thursday. My work schedule has me working when the dealership is open. I'm off tomorrow so I will try to get more info then. Part of me hopes they can't fix it and dig deeper, maybe coming up with a fix or recall to help everyone out in the end.

Or at the very least maybe they send out bulletin.

On a side note, Kawasaki told my service tech that on a couple bikes have exibited the issue and they feel that it is not enough to dig too deep into it yet.

Maybe more people need to print out some stuff from the forums and take it to their service depot.

To be clear, your only issue is the incorrect tach reading, correct? That's not what the thread is about, though the OP suspects that it may be related. If you could get us a recall for the strange break downs, that'd be something!

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by CZroe

To be clear, your only issue is the incorrect tach reading, correct? That's not what the thread is about, though the OP suspects that it may be related. If you could get us a recall for the strange break downs, that'd be something!

[StealthESW]

Well, I couldn't wait for Kawasaki to "figure it out" So, I stopped by the local Ducati dealer and bought a New Old Stock 2009 Monster 696. (I got to have a ride to get to work tomorrow.) Got a lower rate and the payment only went up 50 dollars. I will still keep everyone updated on the Ninja though. The Ducati dealer wants me to be the one to pick up the Kawi soon as they can get it fixed. Will post pics of the Duc in a different part of the forum later.

[Buffalony]

jason
I put on a 15t jt ...i think it was the 1539.The one for the 08+.
try and duplicate the problem and pop open the tank then try starting again. It still could be electrical.but technically if there is a problem with ur tank vent this can happen. Fill the tank up then close it real well. Go for a nice ride and see if it happens. If so..open then cap then try again. If this doesn't solve the problem then we just move on to what's next. Good luck

[Alex]

Originally Posted by StealthESW

Well, I couldn't wait for Kawasaki to "figure it out" So, I stopped by the local Ducati dealer and bought a New Old Stock 2009 Monster 696.

Wait, so you replaced a Kawi with a minor electrical issue with a starter Ducati? That's like complaining about the cold in Minnesota and moving to the Arctic circle.

[ztrack157]

hahahaha trading a minor pain cheap in the butt. for a serious pain that costs $100 everytime you sneeze

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

jason
I put on a 15t jt ...i think it was the 1539.The one for the 08+.
try and duplicate the problem and pop open the tank then try starting again. It still could be electrical.but technically if there is a problem with ur tank vent this can happen. Fill the tank up then close it real well. Go for a nice ride and see if it happens. If so..open then cap then try again. If this doesn't solve the problem then we just move on to what's next. Good luck

Cool idea. Guess I could try that before swapping the CDI's around from 1 bike to the other.

Off subject: I used the #8098515 JT Sprocket on both my bikes with no issues...

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

hahahaha trading a minor pain cheap in the butt. for a serious pain that costs $100 everytime you sneeze

[StealthESW]

Ok. So Kawasaki told me the tach on the 250s are on back order. 4 weeks total before they could get it. The tech was not sure if it would even be that soon.

So, I picked it up and dropped it off at the Ducati dealer.

Feels good to be back on familiar ground. I should of bought the Ducati to begin with. At least I know what to expect with it and can work on it.

Peace out!

[Buffalony]

jay. I clicked on that sprocket link on my phone and it dialed a number.lol is that one for the older models? they need alittle shimming.oh well . I put 160 miles on the new sprocket yesterday. Awesome! I really like it alot. Now 70 80mph feels relaxed. But boy did that stock seat become a real pain.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

jay. I clicked on that sprocket link on my phone and it dialed a number.lol is that one for the older models? they need alittle shimming.oh well . I put 160 miles on the new sprocket yesterday. Awesome! I really like it alot. Now 70 80mph feels relaxed. But boy did that stock seat become a real pain.

Yeah I don't think the sprocket part number was a link. I put about 150 miles on mine now and there's been no issue with no shimming. I looked over the sprocket carefully before installation and outside of measuring it they appear identical thickness. I think there is a thread somewhere where this same thing came up. I think it does depend on the part # one you purchase.

Here's the link if you would like to take a look at it...

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...d=8098515&mmy=

I've also included a pic that shows the thicken center where I would assume some are having to shim instead. Apparently it is designed for the pre-gens too but it works for the 08+ also.

BTW... my butt is sore too. Corbin on the way. Hopefully it helps with this.

Now....

As for the CDI swap. I have decided to hold off on this pending the purchase of an Area P exhaust for the 09 SE. I'm awaiting a response from Kerry and hopefully can do the swap during the AP exhaust, filter, air box delete, Kleen air delete, and jetting I have planned.

I'll keep in touch. In the mean time I'm gonna try this week to get the troubled 08 250R filled up with fuel again to see if the issue is duplicated. That is when I had the "shut-off" issue. I hope it turns out to be a venting problem but I have my doubts.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

Yeah I don't think the sprocket part number was a link. I put about 150 miles on mine now and there's been no issue with no shimming. I looked over the sprocket carefully before installation and outside of measuring it they appear identical thickness. I think there is a thread somewhere where this same thing came up. I think it does depend on the part # one you purchase.

Here's the link if you would like to take a look at it...

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...d=8098515&mmy=

I've also included a pic that shows the thicken center where I would assume some are having to shim instead. Apparently it is designed for the pre-gens too but it works for the 08+ also.

BTW... my butt is sore too. Corbin on the way. Hopefully it helps with this.

Now....

As for the CDI swap. I have decided to hold off on this pending the purchase of an Area P exhaust for the 09 SE. I'm awaiting a response from Kerry and hopefully can do the swap during the AP exhaust, filter, air box delete, Kleen air delete, and jetting I have planned.

I'll keep in touch. In the mean time I'm gonna try this week to get the troubled 08 250R filled up with fuel again to see if the issue is duplicated. That is when I had the "shut-off" issue. I hope it turns out to be a venting problem but I have my doubts.

Many smartphone web browsers try to auto-format phone numbers as "click to dial" links. It really gets annoying with Opera Mobile on an iPhone... you can't click the "Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10" links on your typical forums without your phone yanking you away and automatically dialing some crazy number!

Anyway, if your problem is anything like mine, it will be hard to duplicate even under identical conditions. In most cases I had run the bike hard and long (fully warm) before parking it long enough to start cooling off and then hopped on to ride with minimal additional warm-up (engine was far from "cold"). I usually make it a couple blocks before I notice anything and it's usually as I'm coming to a stop that it starts stumbling and goes out. The fully-warm, slight cool-down (~15-20 minutes), run hard combination at about a quarter of a tank or less seems most likely to trigger it for me.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Anyway, if your problem is anything like mine, it will be hard to duplicate even under identical conditions. In most cases I had run the bike hard and long (fully warm) before parking it long enough to start cooling off and then hopped on to ride with minimal additional warm-up (engine was far from "cold"). I usually make it a couple blocks before I notice anything and it's usually as I'm coming to a stop that it starts stumbling and goes out. The fully-warm, slight cool-down (~15-20 minutes), run hard combination at about a quarter of a tank or less seems most likely to trigger it for me.

hmmm... we may never figure this one out.

I wonder if pressure buildup could be happening once you park and start the cool-down. You think popping the fuel lid before continuing your ride would help?

[empire00]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Anyway, if your problem is anything like mine, it will be hard to duplicate even under identical conditions. In most cases I had run the bike hard and long (fully warm) before parking it long enough to start cooling off and then hopped on to ride with minimal additional warm-up (engine was far from "cold"). I usually make it a couple blocks before I notice anything and it's usually as I'm coming to a stop that it starts stumbling and goes out. The fully-warm, slight cool-down (~15-20 minutes), run hard combination at about a quarter of a tank or less seems most likely to trigger it for me.

this is exactly what im talking about. its hard to pin down a amount of cool down time to make it happen but this seems to be the scenario every time.

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by empire00

this is exactly what im talking about. its hard to pin down a amount of cool down time to make it happen but this seems to be the scenario every time.

pop the gas cap and try to start it up again.


Jon that sprocket needs to be shimmed .5mm.
Heres the 08+ jt1539


I'm really curious to know if simply popping ur gas caps will fix this problem....I really need another mod to add to my already long arse list of uncompletes.
ehhh screw it! I'll put the gas cap mod on there anywhoo. lol

Whenever I finish a ride my tank whines (like everyone elses!!) When I pop the gas cap air gets sucked INTO the tank not out of. So I know I have a slight vacuum effect happening because of the tank vent. I however do not know if this is just part of the design???

[CZroe]

Well, every time it has gone out it has refused to start again until a few to several minutes later... after I have given up and started checking fluids, including the gas level. So, yeah, I do think that poping the gas cap open is all it usually needs, but I still don't know why it's happening. My tanks still "breathes" because I hear the moaning often enough.

And, yeah, of course there is a vacuum. The engine takes gas from the tank, creating a vacuum until a certain point that overcomes "tension" at the vent holes enough to nearly equalize ("waaaaaaaaaaa-"). When it cools, the air in the tank contracts and creates the same vacuum or builds on to the vacuum that is already there until it reaches that same point... "waaaaaaaaa-" again. If it were unable to vent, I can see this causing the fuel supply to stop but, by the sound, it's obvious that mine still vents and vents often. :?

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Well, every time it has gone out it has refused to start again until a few to several minutes later... after I have given up and started checking fluids, including the gas level. So, yeah, I do think that poping the gas cap open is all it usually needs, but I still don't know why it's happening. My tanks still "breathes" because I hear the moaning often enough.

And, yeah, of course there is a vacuum. The engine takes gas from the tank, creating a vacuum until a certain point that overcomes "tension" at the vent holes enough to nearly equalize ("waaaaaaaaaaa-"). When it cools, the air in the tank contracts and creates the same vacuum or builds on to the vacuum that is already there until it reaches that same point... "waaaaaaaaa-" again. If it were unable to vent, I can see this causing the fuel supply to stop but, by the sound, it's obvious that mine still vents and vents often. :?

I agree, both my bikes have the annoying venting sounds.

I hate to jump the gun on my 09 SE too but while on an extended ride on Wed., it had a small incident of the same type of issue. This bike did not stall but it still had the feeling as if the fuel or ignition was cut briefly. Lasted approx. 15 secs before it recovered. I have a "see thru" fuel filter installed on the 09 so if the problem occurs again, maybe I will be able to notice if the the filter is empty when fuel should be running. I think I'm going to go ahead and install one on the troubled 08 too. Fingers crossed...

Fuel Filter Part # if interested...
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web..._5860482-P_4_R

[Buffalony]

okay so tank vents are working all the time.
the fuel filter is a good idea.
the petcocks and fuel valve should also be checked.
I'd also look at the plugs to see if ur lean or rich and gapped right.

[dubojr1]

Ok guys.... my SE did this again. I was on my way home in the blistering Florida summer heat. I ran into a typical afternoon thunderstorm and almost immediatly started stumbling and then stalled. Because I installed the clear fuel filter I leaned over to take a look. Empty with gauge reading over a half tank. I never popped the fuel lid. I just applied the choke and attempted to start. As it the engine was cranking you could see the fuel begin to flow again.

Any suggestions now on a fix? Has to be a venting issue right? The fuel stopped apparently due to the drastic temperature change from the rain.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by g21-30

Yeh, replace the clear filter with an EMGO steel filter with a bronze element! Worked for me.

There is nothing wrong with the filter. It worked as needed for me. It was supposed to be an indicator more than a filter. Since the issue is sparatic, I wanted to be able to see if it was a fuel issue or a lack of for that matter.