HELP!! Carb Issues!!

[xXecuterXx2]

Hi all! First things first, got an old bike, snatched the carbs out, cleaned em up (following a youtube video), and put em back in. Difference is definitely noticeable, being that she's rideable now, but won't get to redline, only runs with choke, and gotta keep her at high revs to get into first.

If at all possible, could anyone direct me to the PROPER way too clean these carbs, along with tips to do before removing carbs?

Thanks!!
-X

[Alex]

What type of bike?

[xXecuterXx2]

05 Kawi Ninja ex250, pretty popular here

[Ghostt]

If your Bike needs the choke to run after start & warm your*pilot*jets*are blocked

You need to properly and meticulous clean your carburetors again, I would advise you PM @ducatiman, he offers a full service for carburetors.


Carbs (especially those which have sat for an extended period) need special attention by someone who has experience doing them. Ultrasonic treatment works wonders in this application. Its not unusual to require multiple cleaning/setup attempts by those who lack equipment or know how to get them truly operational.

[xXecuterXx2]

Thanks!, any other info?

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2

Thanks!, any other info?

Contact @ducatiman he's well know for his custom carburetor services over @ EX500.com and I've know him and his work for several years now, I personally vouch for him.

He offers everything from parts at very affordable prices, to full customization.

SIDENOTE: cleaning, and tuning carburetors is a skill, as well as an art, something you can't learn from a quick YouTube video. I've been working on the from over 30 years, along with other parts of engines, transmissions, etc.... Trust me on this.

My 2¢ on the subject,



Beyond common problems...... comprehensive carb cleaning is not for everyone, there is much to go wrong in short order. We've seen many members endlessly chase their tails, break stuff, assemble and adjust stuff wrong.*

With some of the fleet becoming old, the vast majority require much more than "cleaning". The potential for leakage must be addressed, any less attention is irresponsible, and yes, this may even require thowing money and parts at them (gasp). Consumables...carb innards are not forever items. * **

And certainly there is MORE... much more....to it than simply addressing the pilot jets while they are out and on the bench. **

Please...you're screwing around with FUEL...if not absolutely sure of what you're doing...send them to someone who is.

[ducatiman]

hmm, i dropped a couple pennies on the floor and Ghostt picked them up.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2

Thanks!, any other info?

Link to original page on YouTube.

There is a thread here called "secret passages". Do a search and find that thread, because a good cleaning is more than taking the jets out and ensuring their clear. The carb bodies need cleaned as well.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

hmm, i dropped a couple pennies on the floor and Ghostt picked them up.

[ducatiman]

^ thoughts on vid?

short and sweet....amateur, ya get what ya pay for

[agentbad]

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...ecret+passages

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

^ thoughts on vid?

short and sweet....amateur, ya get what ya pay for

For sure! But.... I hate spending $$$ on sh*t I don't need.

EDIT: Oh snap!!! lol Sorry brah, I just reread that and though... damn. No offence or anything, I was just saying a basic cleaning can be a troubleshooting tool. It will let you know if you're on the right track and if you got what it takes to git-r-done or not.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by csmith12

For sure! But.... I hate spending $$$ on sh*t I don't need.

While that could be true for us veterans, the noobs should consider the services that @ducatiman offers at very affordable prices.

Even veterans could benefit from his services as well, everything from parts, to custom services, his workmanship and quality it top notch.

[csmith12]

^^^ I feel ya'lls.

[ducatiman]

a tease, see for yourself before and after.

A toothbrush and a can of carb cleaner?

[xXecuterXx2]

Ha, im 15 and just repaired my first ninja. Before i get on my knees and beg for cash from my parents to clean carbs, imma try it myself and see what i can do, if all else fails i'll shell out my lawn mowing money. But NOT before then.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2

Ha, im 15 and just repaired my first ninja. Before i get on my knees and beg for cash from my parents to clean carbs, imma try it myself and see what i can do, if all else fails i'll shell out my lawn mowing money. But NOT before then.

Work for dat!

As a parent, I like what I am reading.

[xXecuterXx2]

Haha thanks man! she was sitting up for 3 years and i figured i'd bring her over and see what i can do, i actually just got inside from riding it, i'll clean the carbs better when she cools down

[ducatiman]

careful with the carb cleaner!
the chemicals invade the pores, into the bllodstream, liver, etc etc.
serious poison alert....wear nitrile gloves, kiddo.

and use a toothbrush other than the one hanging in the bathroom!

[xXecuterXx2]

Haha will do bro! I can't wait to get this job over and done with , i wanna see her redline

[ninjunk]

before you go cleaning them out, best to drain the tank and try some clean gas.

that is the exact symptom my bike experienced with water in the fuel. its weird but these bikes start with choke, run smooth even but just no power... i've never seen another engine do that before... running perfectly well just completely anemic and stumbling when choke is taken off.

[ninjunk]

also safety warning, if you are going to huff the carb cleaner, don't tape the bag all around your mouth and nose or you could suffocate.

[xXecuterXx2]

thanks for the tips man!! i'll try that!! and ma's a doctor, got plenty o' masks here at the house.

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

careful with the carb cleaner!
the chemicals invade the pores, into the bllodstream, liver, etc etc.
serious poison alert....wear nitrile gloves, kiddo.

and use a toothbrush other than the one hanging in the bathroom!

I shouldn't be spraying this stuff on my balls then? I kid I kid. Yeah long term exposure to solvents can give your liver a one-two punch. Still manage to get some on me even with gloves though a lot of times. Maybe I need to upgrade my cheapo gloves.

[Ghostt]

Toothpaste on your balls is much better, it's a rush.

[xXecuterXx2]

what has this thread turned into?

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2

what has this thread turned into?

Sorry about that, any updates on your problem?

Link to original page on YouTube.

[xXecuterXx2]

Well, the bike ran (almost) fine before i yanked the carbs, now she starts for 5-10 sec then stalls out and dies, any ideas guys?, its been about a month of repairs and I'm getting hella frustrated. Ugh

[ducatiman]

i'd recommend a good carb clean and setup

[Ghostt]

[xXecuterXx2]

yeah of course you would mate, I'm making payments on the bike and until its payed off, i won't be dishin out ANY cash to anyone

[Ghostt]

If I may, paying for a non-running bike doesn't make a lot of sense, @ducatiman prices are more affordable than you think, you should drop him a PM.

He has a top quality reputation on EX-500.com and I've known him for several years now, I personally vouch for him.

[ducatiman]

Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2

yeah of course you would mate, I'm making payments on the bike and until its payed off, i won't be dishin out ANY cash to anyone

seems like you won't be riding either

Are you located in the USA?

[xXecuterXx2]

Yup, and a non running bike for 700 with 2k miles on it? Pshh y'all don't know what you're talking about, and i still haven't tried all my options, chem dip, pinesol, new jets, all that jazz, so sorry Ducati, no business from me for awhile, though I've got your username in case i need to shoot you pm. Now back to the original topic, any ideas i could try? Actual, practical, ideas?

P.S. Ducati, i've already ridden it, that thing is loudd, Muzzys are my new favourite exhausts.

[get forked]

The first time I cleaned the carbs out on a 250 that had been stored for three years, I had to take the thing apart and clean it three times before I got it running correctly. That was a pain in the ass.

I did learn to be methodical though.

This how to really helped me:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...n_the_carbs%3F

[Ghostt]

Cleaning and servicing carburetors properly not only requires skill and knowledge, but like all others requires the proper tools, not Pinesol and toothbrush.

I'm not against learning, and self-maintenance skill building, hell that's how we all learned, including yours truly.

[ducatiman]

Not horn tooting here.... but you can't compete using toothbrush and rattle can while squatting outdoors in your driveway.

Using sodablast and ultrasonic equipment, powerful compressed air (in a shop setting) in combination with some experience and knowledge...result in a one clean success. Of course the equipment requires some investment...and the experience..."priceless" as they say.

There are ways to test and assure that circuits are, in fact, clear BEFORE putting the carbs back on the bike, thus saving time-wasting, frustrating "redo's".

I've recently sent this EX500 carb set to Malaysia...knowing full well the carbs would perform fine BEFORE boxing and shipping...sure enough...the owner installed, started and rode....seamlessly...smiling the whole way. Shipping half way across the world...you better be damn sure they are *right*.

Kinda separates the men from the boys, dunnit?

[xXecuterXx2]

Ok guys, so after about 8 or 9 times ripping the carbs out, i finally sucked it up and decided to do a "dip", so, i made my own (secret) solution, and soaked it overnight, worked the choke while it was in the bath and pulled out the jets and stuff. This morning i put em back in and she runs incredible, still gotta adress a couple issues though(Hanging RPM's with a closed throttle, mid-throttle pops(Backfiring?), and Dunlop K630's that gotta go) any help on those subject would be appreciated, but thank you all for your support and ideas, I'm starting to enjoy this website, if you guys want pics/ video of the bike, lemme know

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by xXecuterXx2

Ok guys, so after about 8 or 9 times ripping the carbs out, i finally sucked it up and decided to do a "dip", so, i made my own (secret) solution, and soaked it overnight, worked the choke while it was in the bath and pulled out the jets and stuff. This morning i put em back in and she runs incredible, still gotta adress a couple issues though(Hanging RPM's with a closed throttle, mid-throttle pops(Backfiring?), and Dunlop K630's that gotta go) any help on those subject would be appreciated, but thank you all for your support and ideas, I'm starting to enjoy this website, if you guys want pics/ video of the bike, lemme know

Make sure your fuel screws are set to 2.5 turns out and maybe consider a carb sync. I run the Kenda k671's for tires because they last forever.

[Ghostt]

Tune the idle mixture screws, and don't touch the carburetor sync setting, that is definitely not your problem, unless you split the carburetors.

Here's some reading material, enjoy.

Your initial setting should be 3 full turns out from the bottom, remember just slightly tighten them, don't go all Conan on them.



Then warm it up, slowly turn 1 side pilot screw in until the rpms drop, then back out till RPM's peak (and no further)* Twist throttle...see how it reacts...tweak to taste.
Repeat on other side... test ride. You're looking for best throttle response and transition from just cracked to 1/4 throttle opening or so.*

Thats a quickie, 10 cent tutorial on setting pilot screws.**

How to properly synchronise the carburetors

You can sync with the carbs in hand. Back the idle adjustment off to close that carb then match the second carb to it with the sync screw. You can then turn the idle adjustment up while using a thin feeler gauge (maybe .002") between the throttle plate and the throttle bore, adjust to just fit, and then check the second one and adjust to match. If you have good feel for this it will run fine once installed.*

It would do folks well to take a minute to review and understand what a sync tool does, how it works. And take another minute to look at the carb linkage and sync adjustments available to fix irregularities that might occur. It can help take some of the mystery out of this as well as stop unnecessary carb sync screwups.*

Meaning, that the carbs were right once, the butterflies were matched and it performed well, but then changed. Undecided And the problem somehow occurred in the butterfly direct shafts, or the sync screw turned or wore that pad that it rests on, or the carburetor pairing/ bridging brackets twisted in relation to each other, and enough so that the butterflies no longer operated in sync, such that performance noticeably suffered. And a fix will be accomplished by changing the butterfly position, the only thing the sync adjustment does. Hmmm. Really? Undecided*

Meanwhile, the tool measures vacuum at each individual runner. That's all it does, how it works. And vacuum is effected by a huge list of things, butterfly position being only one of them, and the only one addressed with that tool while turning those sync screws. The rest of that list includes, valve adjustment, jetting, float level, compression differences between cylinders caused by wear as well as factory CC differences in the head, intake runner, as well as flow by port variations, etc. Variations in cams, wear or factory tolerance. Then there's the potential big one, pilot jets and pilot screw mixture settings. All of those effect the vacuum and will be read by the sync tool, accurately identifyng the difference that exists, and with the only adjustment being used to "correct" the problem, move the butterfly relationship, one to the next.*

It's that clear understanding that has me of the opinion and long time practice to not touch the sync screws on a set of carbs that were right once and were never dismantled from the rack. And jet cleaning as well as float needle changing doesn't require that they be dismantled. And further, if I DID dismantle a set of carbs, I just matched the butterflies on the bench at assembly, using a feeler gauge, and then never touched them again, never gave them another thought.*

That method, properly executed, will have THAT portion of the complete equation, balanced flow to each cylinder in a multi-cylinder/ carb application due to butterfly position, satisfied entirely adequately. And in fact, it has worked for me every time I've done it on every bike (as well as individual runner/ butterfly V-8 intakes, all eight) that I've ever owned or any that I've fixed for others. And the times I fixed for others was usually after an attempt by others to sync the carbs, chasing a problem, or sometimes not even chasing a problem, but one they created wth a sync tool, chasing a problem from that list, that was never a butterfly position change problem. Those linkages are so direct and simple that they don't know how to screw themselves up. Not enough to care about.*

I'm sure this will start a lot of controversy so I won't argue it, just offering it for those who understand the whole picture that I outlined and might make good use of it. It is what I've done, on every engine I ever worked on, including blue printed racing engines as well as regular old, high mileage street stuff. I've had at least four, four cylinder bikes with over 100,000 miles that ran quite well, the whole time, and never had a carb sync performed. When they did finally get a total disassembly, this is how I set them up, on the bench. Over the years I've straightened out at least a half dozen messed up ones, probably more, and on the bench, after fixing the original problem which was fouled pilot jets.*

I only posted this because it seems like its coming up fairly often, especially with problems from a sync gone bad. One I would suggest was never a sync problem to begin with. A big or sudden change in performance is NEVER a sync problem. NEVER. Remember that. Cool If there is a problem, and you connect the gauges? YES, there will definitely be an imbalance indicated. But because that hole has a problem that is from the rest of the list. A bad plug, a plugged pilot jet, a screwed up float, a bad valve or setting, etc. Every one of them effecting the vacuum in the intake but NOT from a sudden move of a butterfly position, a sync adjustment.

Tires for PreGen either the Kenda K671, or for more aggressive riding the Bridgestone BT-45