removing snorkel + rain?

[wayanlam]

i was curious if anyone has driven through heavy rains (and i mean tropical storm type heavy rains) after having removed their air box snorkel...

is there a risk that water can get in? or are the bikes panels protecting the inlet enough that even torrential rains wont get past?

asking cos here in Bali, during the raining season, it really does piss it down hard!!!

cheers~

[Alex]

/moving to tech section

[kkim]

what is it that concerns you about water getting into the airbox?

[wayanlam]

wont the water get sucked through into the carb and cause the bike to hickup or whatever?

ive had water get into my gas tank on my old bike, and the bike was not happy at all... had to completely empty out the tank, and let it dry before refilling her up again.

or does the filter do a good enough job to catch most of the humidity/water from the air before it enters the carbs, and lets it drain out from the little hole in the bottom of the air box?

[kkim]

water in small quantities is not bad for the engine. what water that gets into the airbox, would most likely collect at the bottom of the airbox. if water did get onto the filter, the water would be sucked through the filter and through the carb throat into the engine. it might cause the bike to hiccup, but it will still run as long as the water has been "vaporized" when coming through the filter and mixed with the incoming air.

water in your gas tank is a different matter as that water settles in your float bowls and if enough water is in your bowls, you end up sucking nothing but water and no gas into the carb. Your bike would stop running then.

I've washed the bike when I used to have the snorkel out and never suffered any ill effects... and I wasn't careful about where I sprayed the water.

My only concern with water would be if the water I was riding in was high enough to literally pour into the airbox hole. At that point, you stand a chance of hydrolocking the engine, but that would mean you would be riding in water about knee high or higher. If you're riding in that deep water, you've got other things to worry about.

[wayanlam]

amusingly enough the roads here do get flooded to the point that you are stood knee deep in water... dirty water... argh!

my cousin had to swim out of his car once, cos he under estimated how deep the water was on the road xD...

anyhow, i don't plan to go jet skiing on my bike at any time! i just stay away from the roads that i know flood badly during the raining season.

that said, im much happier knowing that i can remove the snorkel when the time comes without fear of my bike drowning :P

cheers.

[SteveL]

Take a look at the carb on this bike no air box no filter, all bikes were like that then and we never had any problems riding in the rain.


http://www.realclassic.co.uk/goldstar04032900.html

Steve

[wayanlam]

ah, i see a lot of kids take of the filter on their mopeds for better air flow, or a louder sound i guess, but i also see a lot of kids pushing their bikes during the raining season... not sure if they are the same people, but that was kind of my conclusion, he he...

but ya, i don't think ill have to really worry about just having the snorkel removed as long as i stay away from rivers and major flooding~

planning to eventually get a full exhaust: http://www.r9racing.co.id/npnm_ninja250r.html
removing snorkel, and shimming.

but that's still a long way away, still waiting on my bike to arrive in like 2 weeks. then im gonna break the bike in with everything stock before modding anything.

Kelly, how much do those 3mm washers cost in Hawaii? im not sure if i can get them over here with those exact specs. do you have pay-pall? hr hr hr... would you go shopping for me?

[kkim]

come on ... you must have hardware stores there. either 3mm metric washers or #4 std grade washers will do.

[wayanlam]

if only you knew what the average hardware store looks like here!! :P

but ya, there are a couple shops specialized in screws, nuts, bolts, and washers. i bought some stainless washers a couple weeks back for work, but they were big! don't recall seeing any that small, which is why i got my doubts. but i haven't actually looked properly for them

if i get desperate and really cant find them... i know where to find you! muahaha!

[lavid2002]

Im sure you have heard this before, I dont work on motorcycles...but I do work on outboard engines. On the engines, a sign of water intrusion into the piston housing is a really really clean piston housing and piston head. Air can compress and expand. Water cannot. Therefore when its sent into the piston housing and vaporized it beats the crap out of the walls and makes everything shiny. This normally means you have a blown head gasket on an outboard because water is the cooling system and the head gasket separates the water from the piston.


I assume vaporized water entering the carbs would yield the same result....if you had enough of it.

[SteveL]

Originally Posted by lavid2002

Im sure you have heard this before, I dont work on motorcycles...but I do work on outboard engines. On the engines, a sign of water intrusion into the piston housing is a really really clean piston housing and piston head. Air can compress and expand. Water cannot. Therefore when its sent into the piston housing and vaporized it beats the crap out of the walls and makes everything shiny. This normally means you have a blown head gasket on an outboard because water is the cooling system and the head gasket separates the water from the piston.


I assume vaporized water entering the carbs would yield the same result....if you had enough of it.

We are looking at very small amounts of water otherwise, how do you explain the alcohol and water injection systems that they used on piston engine fighters in WW2 to gain extra performance at altitude.

Steve

[kkim]

it's called hydrolock when the cylinder fills with water. If you get vaporized water/steam into the cylinders, it can most certainly compress and no harm will result.

what you were seeing as signs of water intrusion were correct, but you are misdiagnosing the symptoms. The clean portions were because of the water in steam/vaporized form. There are some that clean their engines by misting water into the intake tracts. the steam loosens the carbon buildup and it exits out the exhaust.

Blown head gaskets and bent valves occur when the cylinder fills with liquid water and cannot be compressed when the valves closes. the result are gaskets, valves, cylinders or cranks that fail trying to compress the incompressible liquid water... something I'm sure an outboard motor is very subject to.

[Banzai]

To the OP, the intake is under the seat, as the snorkel is under the right hand side between the airbox and the rear fender outer plastic. Unless you're in water in excess of about 20 inches (about 50cm), it aint' gonna get into your engine. Vaporous water will pass straight through your engine, as humidity in the air does all the time.

Where I live, we get genuine USA brand grade A mark one mod zero turd floaters dump from the sky all the time, and I've been caught out in a few. NEVER had a problem, in ANY of my bikes with water intrusion caused by simply riding through the rain or basic puddles.

Now if you're riding through areas where the road gets washed out and stays under water, well, can I humbly suggest you trade your bike in for a jet ski?

Click the link below for everything Wiki has to say about water injection into engines!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)

[Daeldren]

Jet ski mod for the 250r

[lavid2002]

Sweet, learn somethin every day : D Also, ont he outboards. the motor will start easy for the first time of the day, but after you drive to the fishing hole and are ready to set up for another drift, the motor wont start. This is because the water used to cool the engine is leaking through the HG and pissing all over the spark plugs. Then the circuit gets shorted out and there is no longer a spark :P

[backinthesaddleagain]

off shore racing power boats suck in water from time to time as well. in the 80's edelbrock made a device that would shoot a tiny amount of water into the intake manifold of cars to reduce detonation.

[demp]

Originally Posted by kkim

My only concern with water would be if the water I was riding in was high enough to literally pour into the airbox hole. At that point, you stand a chance of hydrolocking the engine, but that would mean you would be riding in water about knee high or higher. If you're riding in that deep water, you've got other things to worry about.

I've actually done this on the 250 with the snorkel removed and it did just fine

[wayanlam]

ive long changed to a K&N filter now, im not sure how well THAT would hold out to knee high waters, lol