Lots of oil change questions.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Ninja Rob

While I am at it, I should just change the spark plugs, what kind?

Spark plug threads aren't quite as bad as oil threads.

Whatever brand, so long as it's the correct heat range and has the right kind of top (interface for the ignition wire).

Kwak shop manual says NGK C8HA or NipponDenso U24FS-L.
I like NGKs and NDs.

I'm sure you'll get some good suggestions!

[MrAtom]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ninja+250+spark+plugs&l=1

[Ninja Rob]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ninja+250+spark+plugs&l=1

Hey, that was really cool. I didn't know about that.
I know that I can Google these things but I like to get opinions and experience-backed advice and tips. These forums have some credibility so I check here.

[dcj13]

I understand where Rob is coming from. I'd rather get recommendations from enthusiasts than from the google.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Ninja Rob

Special order only. I called NAPA, Orielly's, Autozone, Advance Auto Parts, and the only motorcycle shops here are closed early on Saturdays and do not open on Sunday.

I guess in that case I will just order from Amazon.
While I am at it, I should just change the spark plug, what kind?

Not a bad idea.

Best to use NGK CR8HSA only.

More info about plugs - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Changin...rands_to_avoid

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by Ninja Rob

Special order only. I called NAPA, Orielly's, Autozone, Advance Auto Parts, and the only motorcycle shops here are closed early on Saturdays and do not open on Sunday.

I guess in that case I will just order from Amazon.
While I am at it, I should just change the spark plug, what kind?

Dude, your really poking the bear on this one, I personally used the NGK (7669) CR8HIX Iridium IX Spark Plugs, why because I can LOL.
I ran them in my EX500 for 30k miles, with no issues, keep in mind also to disassemble, inspect, and clean the plug caps, and renew the wire ends as well, most people overlook these simple things.

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by Ninja Rob

Hey, that was really cool. I didn't know about that.
I know that I can Google these things but I like to get opinions and experience-backed advice and tips. These forums have some credibility so I check here.

Understandable

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Best to use NGK CR8HSA only.

The "R" would be resistor. What does the "S" represent?

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by dcj13

The "R" would be resistor. What does the "S" represent?

The answers you seek, are found here, http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_su...e.asp?mode=nml

[dcj13]

So... "standard type"?

[Ghostt]

Yup

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Focusing on the scientific aspect of oil for a moment -

When thinking about how a multigrade oil works, you need to think in terms of the temperature the oil is being rated at.

For the "W" rating, that is 32 degrees F. For the higher rating, it's 212 degrees F. When a multigrade oil is a "10W-40", it acts like a straight 10-grade oil at 32 degrees F and it acts like a straight 40-grade oil at 212 degrees F.

Keep in mind, even a 10-grade oil is very thick at 32 degrees F when compared to a 40-grade at 212 degrees F. Oil does not flow well when cold, so going to a lower "W" rating like "5W" is a good idea as the temps drop.

In very cold temps even an oil rated at 5W doesn't flow enough, so a "0W" will give better lubrication (flow) and increase cranking speed - which also helps cold starting.

For most of us, a 5W synthetic is safe down to temps as low as we care to ride, but it has no penalty when used in higher temps because it is somewhere in-between the 5W (32F) and 40-grade (212F) rating.

then why don't oems put in 5w-40? why don't they say to use 5w-40? why do they say 10w-40? why would they even make 10w-40, and not say, 1w-40 or 2w-40 instead? (they actually do make 0w-40 oils for specific engines) since this is going along your prescribed logic... it should be even better! right? i believe that is your logic right? thinner when cold is better because... ... ... it flows easier? this is better... why again? what does oil do in an engine? how does oil separate pieces of metal? if oil flows better, does that mean that it flows out of between two pieces of metal better?

kawi uses 10w-40. not 5w-40. not 2w-40 or 1w-40.

10w-40.

i wonder why that is? could it be that you are wrong? could it be that it doesn't matter where they measure a rating at but instead what the viscosity gradient relative to temperature gradient would be? ie... the weight?

could it be that the two ratings create a line on a graph that can be extrapolated to any temperature and that curve maintained along those temperature gradients? even well past what the oil is measured at for rating? oil does not just stop getting thicker once it gets to the lowest measured rating btw

could it be that an oem that produces millions of motors ... knows how to spec an oil?

do you think it's possible that an oem that spec'ed our bikes at 10w-40 knows what viscosity the oil will be at when it gets cold? and that they know enough about plane bearings to correctly plan out how that oil and plane bearing will deal with temperature changes?

[Ghostt]

I knew this would happen..........

[dcj13]

Warm, high load, is what I'm most concerned about when thinking about viscosity. Cold is only for a few minutes, and if the oil is a bit thick I'll take the performance hit.

I don't really car about performance when the bike, car, boat, lawnmower, or generator is cold.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

I knew this would happen..........

Religion is like that!

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Religion is like that!

Amen to that brother, I think the next topic should be tires LOL

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Amen to that brother, I think the next topic should be tires LOL

Now you're talkin'!

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Now you're talkin'!

Since we're on the makers know best topic,

OEM TIRES ARE ALL YOU WILL EVER NEED, SAVE YOUR DEALERS, ORDER OEM TIRES FROM THEM!!!!

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Warm, high load, is what I'm most concerned about when thinking about viscosity. Cold is only for a few minutes, and if the oil is a bit thick I'll take the performance hit.

I don't really car about performance when the bike, car, boat, lawnmower, or generator is cold.

That's not the main reason to use a lower viscosity oil in cold temps.

The main reason is that cold starts are when your engine gets most of its wear, and an oil that moves quicker and easier (like a 5W synthetic) lubricates better and prevents wear.

Hot temps are easy on oil as long as they don't exceed the normal range of about 250 F or so. If temps get above that, synthetic oil performs significantly better than conventional.

[Ghostt]

I'm going with pixie oil next time LOL

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by alex.s

then why don't oems put in 5w-40? why don't they say to use 5w-40? why do they say 10w-40? why would they even make 10w-40, and not say, 1w-40 or 2w-40 instead? (they actually do make 0w-40 oils for specific engines) since this is going along your prescribed logic... it should be even better! right? i believe that is your logic right? thinner when cold is better because... ... ... it flows easier? this is better... why again? what does oil do in an engine? how does oil separate pieces of metal? if oil flows better, does that mean that it flows out of between two pieces of metal better?

kawi uses 10w-40. not 5w-40. not 2w-40 or 1w-40.

10w-40.

i wonder why that is? could it be that you are wrong? could it be that it doesn't matter where they measure a rating at but instead what the viscosity gradient relative to temperature gradient would be? ie... the weight?

could it be that the two ratings create a line on a graph that can be extrapolated to any temperature and that curve maintained along those temperature gradients? even well past what the oil is measured at for rating? oil does not just stop getting thicker once it gets to the lowest measured rating btw

could it be that an oem that produces millions of motors ... knows how to spec an oil?

do you think it's possible that an oem that spec'ed our bikes at 10w-40 knows what viscosity the oil will be at when it gets cold? and that they know enough about plane bearings to correctly plan out how that oil and plane bearing will deal with temperature changes?

Your getting a bit excited there alex...

So you are using Kawasaki oil in your Kawasaki - right? They should make the best oil for their engines - right? Why use another brand?

As far as manufacturer recommendations go - they can be way off. One of my cycles recommends replacing the oil filter every 3 oil changes. Another cycle I'm familiar with recommends an 8000 mi oil change interval when the engine hold 1.7 qts! The conventional "factory-branded" oil they recommend is also known to be pretty poor. They have a standard recommendation that they cut-and-paste in their owners manuals.

Conventional oils can't get to a wide range like 5W-40 without a significant amount of Viscosity Improvers, and the more you have the worse durability the oil will have. When a conventional oil breaks down it drops to its low "W" range, which would not provide adequate oil pressure in hot conditions. That's why you won't see a 5W-40 conventional oil. If you start-up in 70F+ conditions all the time you can run a good quality conventional 15W-40 oil like Rotella T safely - just don't run it below 50F to avoid extra wear from reduced flow at start-up. Start-ups are the key to wear in normal conditions.

Synthetic oils are different. True synthetics (there are a few level) don't use Viscosity Improvers, and can be made to give a wider range of viscosity without the fear of breaking down to their low rating.

10W-40 is a standard range that has been used for ages. It's as wide of a range as is feasible for a conventional oil. It's common and cheap to produce.

I'm running a 10W-40 synthetic right now, but if I were doing more cold weather riding I would be running a 5W-40 synthetic. I use 5W-40 in my dirt bikes that run in the cold.

I stated the benefits of a lower viscosity oil in my reply before this.

[jkv45]

There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about oil that I'm trying to clear up. Hopefully there is someone here that will benefit.

Everyone else can just snicker I guess...

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by jkv45

There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about oil that I'm trying to clear up. Hopefully there is someone here that will benefit.

Everyone else can just snicker I guess...

Very true, and I agree with your information.

Perhaps your delivery is the fault, and not your information.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jkv45

There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about oil that I'm trying to clear up. Hopefully there is someone here that will benefit.

Everyone else can just snicker I guess...

i had no idea you were a chemical engineer for oil industry! whats the proper cst for a w2 based bearing with a .001 clearance at 32f? and whats the cst for 10w spec oil at 32f again? and what is it at 5w again?

[Ghostt]

This is EXACTLY WHY I'm switching to PIXIE DUST OIL, it magically protects the engine, and makes it really fly, just have to clap a lot.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i had no idea you were a chemical engineer for oil industry! whats the proper cst for a w2 based bearing with a .001 clearance at 32f? and whats the cst for 10w spec oil at 32f again? and what is it at 5w again?

Ha alex - you never fail to pull stuff out of your ***!

You don't need to be a Chemical Engineer to understand oil. This is just basic information.

Do some research and check out what I've said - or just complete disregard it...

[alex.s]

no no. you know better than every other OEM out there. everyone, don't trust kawi- trust this guy!


he says he knows what he is talking about you guys!

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

This is EXACTLY WHY I'm switching to PIXIE DUST OIL, it magically protects the engine, and makes it really fly, just have to clap a lot.

better make sure its "HIGH FLOW" pixie dust oil... whatever the **** that means.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by alex.s

better make sure its "HIGH FLOW" pixie dust oil... whatever the **** that means.

I trust the magic

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

I trust the magic

you should instead trust the person who produced your engine.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Ha alex - you never fail to pull stuff out of your ***!

You don't need to be a Chemical Engineer to understand oil. This is just basic information.

Do some research and check out what I've said - or just complete disregard it...

maybe you don't understand my reaction.

i don't give a **** what oil you put in your bike.

look where you are though. you are in a newbie thread suggesting people don't follow the manual. what's my reaction to that? my reaction is that you're wrong. especially if you're a newbie, follow the manual to a tee.

had you have said this in your build thread would i have said anything? probably no. so don't take it as a personal attack because i really hate 5w oils because they will bring another rise of communism and bring stalin back from the dead or something. take it as an attack against your judgement about what you try to teach and communicate to others trying to learn. openly suggesting that people don't follow oem recommendations on oil doesn't contribute something beneficial in my opinion.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by alex.s

no no. you know better than every other OEM out there. everyone, don't trust kawi- trust this guy!


he says he knows what he is talking about you guys!

So you are using Kawasaki oil then - right? Because that's what Kawasaki uses, so it must be the best for a Kawasaki. No synthetic oil for you either then.

Kawasaki isn't telling you NOT to use a 5W-40 oil are they? Once you are at operating temp it's all the same, you are just gaining protection from wear at cold start-up.

It's just basic knowledge of the effect of temperature on oil, and its effect on lubrication in cold temps, that I'm covering here.

You do believe oil gets thicker, and doesn't flow as easily, when it's cold - right?

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by alex.s

maybe you don't understand my reaction.

i don't give a **** what oil you put in your bike.

look where you are though. you are in a newbie thread suggesting people don't follow the manual. what's my reaction to that? my reaction is that you're wrong. especially if you're a newbie, follow the manual to a tee.

(SNIP)

In that case, you are saying all newbies should go to a Kawasaki dealer and buy a Kawasaki oil filter and Kawasaki oil for their Kawasaki.

I get it.

[alex.s]

i don't believe the manual suggests the dealer for an oil change actually.

[Ghostt]

[alex.s]

[dcj13]

A good oil thread every now and then rejuvenates the soul.

I just ran across the "General Specifications" sheet that came with my bike ('03 EX250-F17: Ninja 250R). Under Tuning Specifications, Engine, it states the following:

Engine Oil: SE Class SAE 10W40, 10W50, 20W40, 20W50.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by dcj13

A good oil thread every now and then rejuvenates the soul.

I just ran across the "General Specifications" sheet that came with my bike ('03 EX250-F17: Ninja 250R). Under Tuning Specifications, Engine, it states the following:

Engine Oil: SE Class SAE 10W40, 10W50, 20W40, 20W50.

SE Class is obsolete.

Back when that was the suggested rating, oils were different and standard automobile oils were fine to use in a cycle. Not any more.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by jkv45

SE Class is obsolete.

Back when that was the suggested rating, oils were different and standard automobile oils were fine to use in a cycle. Not any more.

I run SN-rated 20W50 automotive oil in my Ninjette and KLR250.
I run 15W50 full synthetic in my K75 (only because the non-synth fogs up the oil level sight glass on the K75: Kawasaki seems to use better plastic than BMW in their sight glasses).

[Ghostt]

any rated JASO-MA/MA2 oil will do just fine