Removing Snorkel+Areap+Dyno (Fuel Injection)

[Jason5885]

Hi Guys, i've been doing a lot of reading and most of the info on this forum about removing the snorkel is about the Carb models. And anyone who has posted about removing their snorkel with the FI Model, hasn't done it with a Power Commander.

After New year I'l be taking My 2010 FI Ninja 250 (PC5 installed) over to the dynojet dyno here and seeing what we can get with my Ninja with the snorkel removed, K&N Filter in and Areap full exhaust system installed.

Would be cool if we could break the 32 on the dyno!

[Bigballsofpaint]

Please update when you do, thats basically my performance plans for the bike without going overboard.

[garth285]

Looking forward to your results! I am curious to see what kind of power on motor with the simple mods you can get it up to.

I believe the PCV will allow you to adjust timing if you got the right one, you might be able to find some more power there!

Make your your chain is well adjusted, and normally a 6th gear pull will give you a little more hp on the dyno than the normal 4th gear.... dyno tricks ;-)

[cbinker]

Why not pull the air box and replace it with a pod filter?

[EsrTek]

I pulled the snorkel on the 300 the day I got it...been 6-7k miles and it runs great!

It really had little to no effect on performance, but it does give it that intake growl and makes bike sound beefier and louder.

I planned on getting the area P fulls system and PC5 from them this winter (Although now not sure I'm keeping the 300 yet).

[Hero Danny]

Just slap a turbo in it and call it a day.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[garth285]

Thats what I'm working on ;-)

[Somchai]

Here is the graph of a Ninja 250-FI dyno-run taken from a german forum showing what happens when the snorkel is removed (the dyno was done by a racing team running in the European Junior Cup).
Red is without snorkel - 26.51 rwhp
Blue is with the snorkel - 27.34 rwhp
Green is with snorkel and K&N-Airfilter - 29.02 rwhp
The 0.8 rwhp loss of power should not be felt that much since the more louder sound will give an impression of more power.

[EsrTek]

Good point - forgot to mention I changed my filter to a pipercross when I pulled the snorkel.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Here is the graph of a Ninja 250-FI dyno-run taken from a german forum showing what happens when the snorkel is removed (the dyno was done by a racing team running in the European Junior Cup).
Red is without snorkel - 26.51 rwhp
Blue is with the snorkel - 27.34 rwhp
Green is with snorkel and K&N-Airfilter - 29.02 rwhp
The 0.8 rwhp loss of power should not be felt that much since the more louder sound will give an impression of more power.

wait, so that is saying it has more power with the snorkel?

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by cbinker

wait, so that is saying it has more power with the snorkel?

You're right, but please remember that this must not necessarily be true in case of carbed Ninjettes even when for FI-Ninjettes it is a well known fact in Europe.

[Jason5885]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Here is the graph of a Ninja 250-FI dyno-run taken from a german forum showing what happens when the snorkel is removed (the dyno was done by a racing team running in the European Junior Cup).
Red is without snorkel - 26.51 rwhp
Blue is with the snorkel - 27.34 rwhp
Green is with snorkel and K&N-Airfilter - 29.02 rwhp
The 0.8 rwhp loss of power should not be felt that much since the more louder sound will give an impression of more power.

Yes but were they using a power commander or were they doing what most do and just pull it out without making any adjustments to the air/fuel ratios to optimise it?

Originally Posted by cbinker

Why not pull the air box and replace it with a pod filter?

Too complex for me right now, plus i've read some guy fried his engine doing that?

Originally Posted by garth285

Looking forward to your results! I am curious to see what kind of power on motor with the simple mods you can get it up to.

I believe the PCV will allow you to adjust timing if you got the right one, you might be able to find some more power there!

Make your your chain is well adjusted, and normally a 6th gear pull will give you a little more hp on the dyno than the normal 4th gear.... dyno tricks ;-)

Me also, this is about as far as i plan to go as far as Performance mods for now

I got the Dynojet Power Commander 5 Kawasaki 2010 Ninja 250R
PDQ17-001 . They had a Fuel And Ignition One PDQ17-035
too but it was too expensive for me at the time, is the later the one you were talking about timing with?

By well adjusted chain do you just mean service manual adjustments?

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

Please update when you do, thats basically my performance plans for the bike without going overboard.

Will do brother, im the same this is about as far as i'll go for now.

[Jason5885]

Someone posted this in another thread and it got me excited/inspired.. They haven't even fiddled with the carbs and its giving these results. Im going to be getting mine FINE TUNED to the removal of snorkel / Full Exhaust so im hoping for some good results

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2008 Ninja 250R Dyno: TYGA Round Aluminum Race Exhaust System vs. Stock Exhaust
I’m a private party and this is my review of the TYGA Round Aluminum Race System. I am not a dealer, nor do I work for TYGA, but I’m a street rider and club racer. I’m reviewing this because I found little to no information regarding this system and I wanted to share my findings with others who found themselves in the same predicament as me (how can I pay less and not sacrifice performance!?!?). I scoured the internet but found no proof this system would give me any performance gains. I knew TYGA was a reputable manufacturer of quality products so I took a leap of faith and boy did it pay off!
Ninja 250R Dyno results are for the following runs:
Black: Stock Exhaust (no modifications whatsoever)
Blue: Stock Exhaust (snorkel removed)
Red: TYGA Round Aluminum Race System (snorkel removed)
Note: Carbs were not jetted. Fuel mixture screws were not adjusted.




HP Gains:
1) Remove snorkel (+1.5HP) == 28.1HP!
2) Install TYGA Round Aluminum Race System (+4.2HP) == 32.3HP!
Total: +5.7HP (+4.2HP from TYGA exhaust!)
Weight Comparison (lbs):
Stock | Header: 4.1 | Can: 10.5**| Total: 14.6 lbs
TYGA | Header: 3.4*| Can: 2.6**| Total: 6 lbs
Weight reduction: 8.6 lbs!

[Somchai]

@Jason5885 - Jason, about the graph from TYGA, which really is a experienced company, do you realize that they talk about carburetors and NOT the FI-Ninja?
And to make it clear, for me there is no problem what ever you are doing, but the fact is with or without Power Commander when at the FI-Ninja the snorkel is removed the result always was a loss in hp.
In the European Junior Cup the bikes had the Leovince FAST Fuel-System installed what directly compared to the PCV is the more reliable system, especially with the Leovince Fullsystem exhaust what also means that only the Totsubo racing exhaust is more powerful than the LV (Italy is well known for their high knowledge in making exhaust-systems for cars and motorcycles).
And please don't give so many believe or even trust in dyno-runs, since the operator can and also will show you the result he wants you to see especially when he needs to sell you anything. Dynos depend on parameters and many operators don't even know how to setup them in the correct way. Maybe it will give you some inside when you know that on the dyno the torque and NOT the hp is measured - the hp is calculated from the torque-value.
When, then you should only give some trust in a dyno-run from a company which is absolute independent from any sold unit, like air-filters, exhausts, fuel-mappings ect., whats an organisation like i.e. the German TUV or equivalents.
Good luck for you

[Jason5885]

Originally Posted by Somchai

@Jason5885 - Jason, about the graph from TYGA, which really is a experienced company, do you realize that they talk about carburetors and NOT the FI-Ninja?
And to make it clear, for me there is no problem what ever you are doing, but the fact is with or without Power Commander when at the FI-Ninja the snorkel is removed the result always was a loss in hp.
In the European Junior Cup the bikes had the Leovince FAST Fuel-System installed what directly compared to the PCV is the more reliable system, especially with the Leovince Fullsystem exhaust what also means that only the Totsubo racing exhaust is more powerful than the LV (Italy is well known for their high knowledge in making exhaust-systems for cars and motorcycles).
And please don't give so many believe or even trust in dyno-runs, since the operator can and also will show you the result he wants you to see especially when he needs to sell you anything. Dynos depend on parameters and many operators don't even know how to setup them in the correct way. Maybe it will give you some inside when you know that on the dyno the torque and NOT the hp is measured - the hp is calculated from the torque-value.
When, then you should only give some trust in a dyno-run from a company which is absolute independent from any sold unit, like air-filters, exhausts, fuel-mappings ect., whats an organisation like i.e. the German TUV or equivalents.
Good luck for you

Ah, i overlooked that part, i'm posting from work at the moment and must of read it all too quickly Lol. Well that again goes to show that there is simply not enough FI Ninja Info out there! lol

Understood Somchai, Thanks for the advice. I will be requesting as much print outs/graphs as possible from the Dyno, He's the only one in my area (Scottish Highlands)

http://www.hmdtuning.co.uk/

''The Highlands Only Official Dynojet Power Commander Tuning centre''

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Jason5885

Ninja 250R Dyno results are for the following runs:
Black: Stock Exhaust (no modifications whatsoever)
Blue: Stock Exhaust (snorkel removed)
Red: TYGA Round Aluminum Race System (snorkel removed)
Note: Carbs were not jetted. Fuel mixture screws were not adjusted.

Making more HP by removing the snorkel and adding a pipe, and not altering jetting, makes me think it is too rich stock to make peak HP.

Peak HP isn't the only thing to look at. On the street you might be able to gain peak HP by removing the snorkel or airbox, but lose throttle response and mid-range power - which can make it a pain to ride in traffic.

A snorkel usually smooths and routes the air into the airbox, and removing it - leaving a hole with a sharp edge - will usually increase turbulence and disrupt flow unless it was creating a restriction (only an issue at peak power).

Also, just because an intake mod makes more power on a dyno, sitting in the shop, doesn't mean you will get the same results on the road at speed where airflow and turbulence are significantly different.