what type of cell phone do you have?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

But you didn't say what the iphone does that my little $200 android doesn't?

Smooth scrolling

I can't say I've seen a windows 7 phone before. Nor have I seen their play store either. I suppose they must have one somewhere though. I would however bet that its better than windows mobile.

They are neat

Obviously there is a guy at apple that is deliberately making the iphones jailbreakable in spite of the fact that jailbreaking is clearly forbidden by the company. They make their own phones and recently they even make their own processors. I can tell you, as a software engineer, that making it impossible to be jailbroken would be trivial. All they would have to do would be to put the IPL in ROM and include an nonmaskable check for jailbroken-ness - then loop the phone if it is. Anyhow, if apple ever figures out who that guy was, they could eliminate jailbreaking forever.

Uh no, thats not how it works, you don't know what you are talking about. Hackers find flaws in apples phones that allow them to jailbreak them, and they are not always software flaws, a few have been hardware flaws. There is no one at apple deliberatly making phones jailbreakable. Every jailbreak that comes out is patched and fixed in the next iOS update meaning that a new exploit must be found for each new jailbreak.

If apple ever did do something like that to deliberatly destroy a phone if it detects certain software, I'm relatively sure that would be illegal and they would have lawsuits on their hands. It would be like if kawasaki implemented their ECU's to lock up if it detected that you added LED blinkers or changed the exhaust

If they did such a thing it would be terrible publicity plus every person that does jailbreak would stop buying iPhones (That's 10% of their sales)

Then you would either have to toe the apple line or switch to android (or win 7).

If apple ever is able to defeat jailbreaking (I think it's impossible for them to defeat tethered JB's but they may beat untethered JB's), if they are ever able to I'll be using androids. A stock iPhone is just far too limited for my needs. And windows phone? Nah, They are good smartphones they are just far too simplistic for someone like me, they are even more simplified than an iPhone

[Kstorm21]

Originally Posted by Boom King

The A6 chip looks very impressive. The S3 though should reclaim top spot in Geekbench scores once it gets the official Jelly Bean update sometime in October.

I love my S3...my only issue now, which is totally my fault is I apparently downloaded an app that continuously pulls data from the internet and it drains my battery crazy fast! Like right now my phone has been unplugged for 5 hrs and the battery is at 55%. That's with no calls and just email/facebook updates. I do have an RSS feed going so maybe that's it. Sprint couldn't figure it out.

[Jiggles]

lol

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Smooth scrolling

I can't speak for all phones, but my android scrolls smooth. Are you speaking of a specific app that doesn't scroll right?

Uh no, thats not how it works, you don't know what you are talking about. Hackers find flaws in apples phones that allow them to jailbreak them, and they are not always software flaws, a few have been hardware flaws. There is no one at apple deliberatly making phones jailbreakable. Every jailbreak that comes out is patched and fixed in the next iOS update meaning that a new exploit must be found for each new jailbreak.

I guess you aren't familiar with ROM. Its unflashable program memory. It can't be changed by flashing or new firmware releases. Its cast in stone when the hardware is made. The IPL (Initial Program Load) is the first place in memory that the processor starts executing code. Way before any OS. All it has to do is to check for jailbroken-ness as part of its power on routines that would hand control over to the flashable firmware. There are any number of ways that this could be accomplished.

This is an obvious way to stop jailbreaking cold without any ability to be hacked. Its not rocket science. For apple not to have thought of that means that they are either allowing jailbreaking on purpose, or they are stupid. I'm pretty sure they aren't stupid.

I'm not saying they do any of this, I'm just saying that they could.

As far as what they could do once they detect a jailbroken phone is also unlimited. I mentioned looping the phone as one possible thing. They could also do other things such as simply not letting jailbroken phones operate or flushing stacks to make the phone "buggy" or even more sinister such as collecting your contact information and marking you as violating your warranty.

If apple ever did do something like that to deliberately destroy a phone if it detects certain software, I'm relatively sure that would be illegal and they would have lawsuits on their hands.

It depends on whats in the licensing agreement that everybody has to agree to but never actually reads. Most software licenses have an indemnification clause that says they aren't responsible if it screws up your computer. I have heard of lots of people suing software companies, but not too many times where they actually won.

[Apex]

I like my iPhone 4S.

However, and I must be honest here, smart phones are getting on my nerves. They are morphing further away from a useful phone and more towards a computer.

If I could say one thing to phone makers, it would be this:
"It is a phone before anything else. If I cannot obtain a signal inside a Target, then whole purpose of the product is out of the window. It does not matter how many features it has, or what it can do; if it cannot make a simple phone call inside a store, it isn't a great phone."

Yeah, the smart phones, in no way, can compete with the abilities of my old Nokia analog phone. That thing could get a signal ANYWHERE. These smart phones, they are more picky than Jeremy Clarkson.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I can't speak for all phones, but my android scrolls smooth. Are you speaking of a specific app that doesn't scroll right?

You can pretend all you want that the twitches and bugginess of the scrolling doesn't bother you, I prefer a polished product. When we get new products in at AT&T the first thing I do is check how well the phone or tablet can switch between screens and scroll. The budget phones and tablets suck at it, and if they can't spend the time to polish up their software then I can't spend the time bothering to learn my way around it or sell it to customers. I know about the type of android phones you are talking about, we sell them, and polished product does not exist at the $200 priceline. But hey, you go ahead and believe its just as good as those $700 galaxy phones and iphones. Ignorance is bliss.

I guess you aren't familiar with ROM. Its unflashable program memory. It can't be changed by flashing or new firmware releases. Its cast in stone when the hardware is made. The IPL (Initial Program Load) is the first place in memory that the processor starts executing code. Way before any OS. All it has to do is to check for jailbroken-ness as part of its power on routines that would hand control over to the flashable firmware. There are any number of ways that this could be accomplished.

This is an obvious way to stop jailbreaking cold without any ability to be hacked. Its not rocket science. For apple not to have thought of that means that they are either allowing jailbreaking on purpose, or they are stupid. I'm pretty sure they aren't stupid.

I'm not saying they do any of this, I'm just saying that they could.

I'm going to guess that they already do this simply because of the fact that tethered and untethered jailbreaks exist. A tethered jailbreak is one that requires the phone to be connected to the computer when it is powered up in order to enable the jailbreak mods. It's the least desirable way to jailbreak a phone but sometimes (if an exploit has not yet been found) it is the only way. I believe what is happening is the computer is forcing the phone to bypass some of this stuff, or the jailbreak is taking place AFTER the phone has gone through its boot up process

Anyway, I don't believe it is so simple to do. Do you honestly think that apple would vehemently attempt to pass legislation to make jailbreaking illegal if they could prevent it themselves? I don't, because thats a stupid way to go about things if its so simple to prevent.

As far as what they could do once they detect a jailbroken phone is also unlimited. I mentioned looping the phone as one possible thing. They could also do other things such as simply not letting jailbroken phones operate or flushing stacks to make the phone "buggy" or even more sinister such as collecting your contact information and marking you as violating your warranty.

Again I think its illegal to "booby trap" a phone like this. They could mark you as violating your warranty (jailbreaking does violate it) but even now they replace jailbroken phones. I have had mine replaced after I've jailbroken it.

It depends on whats in the licensing agreement that everybody has to agree to but never actually reads. Most software licenses have an indemnification clause that says they aren't responsible if it screws up your computer. I have heard of lots of people suing software companies, but not too many times where they actually won.

That is entirely different than deliberately sabotaging someones property

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

You can pretend all you want that the twitches and bugginess of the scrolling doesn't bother you,...

Tell me a specific sequence and I'll check it out. If it scrolls smooth IMO, then I'll post a video of it.

I'm going to guess that they already do this simply because of the fact that tethered and untethered jailbreaks exist.

Assuming they use ROM IPL code, if it can be bypassed, then its by design. remember they made their own CPU with later versions. Previously they used ARMs which are well documented cpus, but even then its sold as an IP core that apple had to use and make their own chip which could have also contained an unmaskable ROM IPL.

In simple terms, an IP core is a special type of program that makes a chip. But being that you live in San Jose, you probably learned that in kindergarten.

Anyway, I don't believe it is so simple to do. Do you honestly think that apple would vehemently attempt to pass legislation to make jailbreaking illegal if they could prevent it themselves? I don't, because thats a stupid way to go about things if its so simple to prevent.

It has been posted here by others that apple first tried to make it illegal, then two years later didn't pursue it further, and now you say they even replace broken jailbroken phones under warranty. Sounds like they may be softening up a bit on their position.

Who knows, maybe the iphone 6 will come with a checkbox that turns jailbreaking on and off.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Tell me a specific sequence and I'll check it out. If it scrolls smooth IMO, then I'll post a video of it.

It's quite alright, you enjoy your phone, I'll enjoy mine

Assuming they use ROM IPL code, if it can be bypassed, then its by design. remember they made their own CPU with later versions. Previously they used ARMs which are well documented cpus, but even then its sold as an IP core that apple had to use and make their own chip which could have also contained an unmaskable ROM IPL.

In simple terms, an IP core is a special type of program that makes a chip. But being that you live in San Jose, you probably learned that in kindergarten.

Nope, no clue, I'm not a computer engineer. I'd never even be able to dream of jailbreaking if someone didn't do it for me.

It has been posted here by others that apple first tried to make it illegal, then two years later didn't pursue it further, and now you say they even replace broken jailbroken phones under warranty. Sounds like they may be softening up a bit on their position.

Who knows, maybe the iphone 6 will come with a checkbox that turns jailbreaking on and off.

I'm assuming they are not pursuing because the Supreme Court ruled that jailbreaking is legal. It's a bit foolish to pursue it at that point don't you think?

Also, if you tell them its jailbroken they won't replace it, so you just don't tell them

[n4mwd]

Here is a youtube video that I found of the $200 walmart phone I have. The phone does lack a few features found on the iphone 5, but VERY few. The exhibit 2 does not have HD video from the rear camera - only SD. Its only a 1 gig processor, but it seems to be sufficient for most things. I can play movies, watch netflix and youtube with no problem. It can make calls three ways - through the cell network, the 4G network or through the wifi. It also doesn't have near field or infrared if that is stuff you actually use. As you can see in the video, the scrolling is fine.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Boom King]

So it only took hours after its release for images to show up on the web of a jailbroken iPhone 5. Regarding Apple and jailbreaking, here's a good article on it. On the legal front, Apple is pretty busy right now battling its competitors on all those patent infringement suits.

[Jiggles]

Interesting article. I have noticed that quite a few of my favorite jailbreak features are included in iOS after a while. I can easily think of 10 that have so far

[choneofakind]

I have no idea what any of this talk means.

I want a smart phone eventually, but I'm not a computer geek. I know that my first generation iPod Touch still works great and is simple to use. I will likely get whatever generation of iPhone is out atm when I "upgrade" my phone. I feel like I'm not part of the minority here; there's a ton of smart phones that never have their software futzed with, and are used mostly as a phone. From that stand point, I know that the iOS makes sense to me, which is why I will likely get one.

You computer/phone geeks

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I feel like I'm not part of the minority here; there's a ton of smart phones that never have their software futzed with, and are used mostly as a phone. From that stand point, I know that the iOS makes sense to me, which is why I will likely get one.

wut

If you do get an iphone always get the current model (iphone 5) I know that $100 iphone 4s and $0.99 iphone 4 seem like a steal but don't do it! It's not worth it!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

wut

If you do get an iphone always get the current model (iphone 5) I know that $100 iphone 4s and $0.99 iphone 4 seem like a steal but don't do it! It's not worth it!

I'll keep that in mind about the current model

What are you wutting about?

[Jiggles]

The part I quoted, idk wtf you're trying to say, try again

[choneofakind]

Ok, let's try and write better

Basically, I feel like there's a ton of people who buy smart phones and never futz with jailbreaking or changing firmware or whatever, like from windows to droid or whatever. For that case, I feel like it's best to just have a simple OS that makes sense to use. From playing with my iPod and my friends smartphones, I know that iOS makes sense to me, more than the other non-apple smartphones that I've tried. I feel like I'm not the only one in that situation

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

wut

If you do get an iphone always get the current model (iphone 5) I know that $100 iphone 4s and $0.99 iphone 4 seem like a steal but don't do it! It's not worth it!

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I am an att cell phone salesman

@choneofakind because the salesman really wants you to buy a second hand or cheaper option

Ask your local Kwak dealer should you buy a 2012 250 or the new ZX-636 while you're at it...

[choneofakind]

But I have phone service through verizon. Jiggles won't see a dime of my money.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

@choneofakind because the salesman really wants you to buy a second hand or cheaper option

Ask your local Kwak dealer should you buy a 2012 250 or the new ZX-636 while you're at it...

Common misconception, I make the same amount of money whether you buy a 64gb iphone 5 for $850 or a $100 flip phone. We get paid on the service not the products

I'll break it down for you though, iphone 4 for free basically. It's a 2 year old phone that has a processor 1/4 the speed of a new iphone and it also has half the memory, 8gb. The camera resolution is lower the internet speed is slower and the phone will only slow down as time goes on, its a 2 yr old phone at this point and you are signing a 2yr contract, when your up for another upgrade the phone will be 4yrs old and ancient.

Iphone 4s the last iteration, its processor is 2x the speed of the iphone 4 and and it can download 2x as fast as well. Better camera, siri, some other junk, but also only 8gb, 1-2gb taken up by the OS leaves you with 6gb. It is half the speed of the iphone 5, half the memory, and it doesn't have lightning quick LTE!!! It's also already 1 year old. Your brand new phone is already 1 year old

Then iPhone 5, just get this unless you are a simple minded or old person

[Liquidtoon]

At the low cost of $310(family plan for 4androids) a month verizon I'm almost ready to go back to a pagers..... That being said I have had (semi-) Smart phones since they came out with the Palm Treo and couldnt fathom the headaches not having it would cause. I love my current phone (rooted/s-off/global Rezound) not to say that it always does what I want but it works well.

Originally Posted by Kstorm21

I love my S3...my only issue now, which is totally my fault is I apparently downloaded an app that continuously pulls data from the internet and it drains my battery crazy fast! Like right now my phone has been unplugged for 5 hrs and the battery is at 55%. That's with no calls and just email/facebook updates. I do have an RSS feed going so maybe that's it. Sprint couldn't figure it out.

menu->settings->power->Battery use will tell you what programs are draining your battery.
menu->settings-> usage will tell you what is using data thus letting you know if something is pulling data.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

But you didn't say what the iphone does that my little $200 android doesn't?....

I think the point here isnt that the Iphone5 has some magical powers that android doesnt, although a true full back up and restore would be nice for android. I think the point is easy to see comparing the phones to computers, while my netbook will technically do everything my i7 desktop will do after some use they aren't equals but both have a place. Realistically his iPhone is faster, little better display, battery life, cleaner market and interface, ect. and he is paying more for it.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Common misconception, I make the same amount of money whether you buy a 64gb iphone 5 for $850 or a $100 flip phone. We get paid on the service not the products

I'll break it down for you though, iphone 4 for free basically. It's a 2 year old phone that has a processor 1/4 the speed of a new iphone and it also has half the memory, 8gb. The camera resolution is lower the internet speed is slower and the phone will only slow down as time goes on, its a 2 yr old phone at this point and you are signing a 2yr contract, when your up for another upgrade the phone will be 4yrs old and ancient.

Iphone 4s the last iteration, its processor is 2x the speed of the iphone 4 and and it can download 2x as fast as well. Better camera, siri, some other junk, but also only 8gb, 1-2gb taken up by the OS leaves you with 6gb. It is half the speed of the iphone 5, half the memory, and it doesn't have lightning quick LTE!!! It's also already 1 year old. Your brand new phone is already 1 year old

Then iPhone 5, just get this unless you are a simple minded or old person

There's the problem, I go with the cheaper phone & 30 day rolling contract.

Samsung Galaxy S Advance is fine for me.

£700 ($1137.36) for a 64GB iphone 5 here, Apple may go & swing for it I'll never buy one

[Jiggles]

U so smart!

[Whiskey]

Bought the phone for 250, 13 a month gets me more minutes than I use & 5000 texts & unlimited data.

Viber uses data to make calls, so I've been talking to people back home for over an hour today free

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Liquidtoon

I think the point here isnt that the Iphone5 has some magical powers that android doesnt, although a true full back up and restore would be nice for android. I think the point is easy to see comparing the phones to computers, while my netbook will technically do everything my i7 desktop will do after some use they aren't equals but both have a place. Realistically his iPhone is faster, little better display, battery life, cleaner market and interface, ect. and he is paying more for it.

Yeah, the i5 is pretty decent especially when jailbroken. But at something like $895, it better be a LOT better than the $200 android. Here is the specs comparison:

Specs: Apple i5 / Samsung Exhibit ii
==============================
Weight: 112g / 116g
Display: 4" / 3.7"
Resolution: 640x1136 / 400x800
Light sensor: YES / NO
Proximity sensor: YES / YES
Compass: YES/ YES
Gyro: YES / NO
Accelerometer: YES / YES
Standby: 225H / 360H
Talk: 8H / 5.5H
Rear Camera: 8 MP + 1080p@30fps / 3MP + 480p@30fps
Front Camera: 1.2 MP + 720p@30fps / 0.3 MP + 480p@30fps
CPU: Dual-core 1.2 GHz / 1 GHz Scorpion
Card slot: None / microSD, up to 32GB
Internal Flash: 16-64GB / 1 GB
Internal RAM: 1 GB / 0.5 GB

Summary: The iphone 5 has a better display and better cameras. The exhibit lacks gyro and light sensors. The exhibit has a longer standby time but slightly less talk time. The i5 has more built in storage, but no external storage capability (they want you to pay for cloud storage). The i5 has a dual core processor compare to the exhibits single core.

So the bottom line is that the iphone 5 is a better phone than the exhibit, but not by much. I don't think its worth $600 more.

[massacremasses]

dude...... are you serious? the iphone5 makes your phone look silly.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

So the bottom line is that the iphone 5 is a better phone than the exhibit, but not by much. I don't think its worth $600 more.

Woweee! Good thing they are the same price!

[Liquidtoon]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Yeah, the i5 is pretty decent especially when jailbroken. But at something like $895, it better be a LOT better than the $200 android. Here is the specs comparison:

Specs: Apple i5 / Samsung Exhibit ii
==============================
Weight: 112g / 116g
Display: 4" / 3.7"
Resolution: 640x1136 / 400x800
Light sensor: YES / NO
Proximity sensor: YES / YES
Compass: YES/ YES
Gyro: YES / NO
Accelerometer: YES / YES
Standby: 225H / 360H
Talk: 8H / 5.5H
Rear Camera: 8 MP + 1080p@30fps / 3MP + 480p@30fps
Front Camera: 1.2 MP + 720p@30fps / 0.3 MP + 480p@30fps
CPU: Dual-core 1.2 GHz / 1 GHz Scorpion
Card slot: None / microSD, up to 32GB
Internal Flash: 16-64GB / 1 GB
Internal RAM: 1 GB / 0.5 GB

Summary: The iphone 5 has a better display and better cameras. The exhibit lacks gyro and light sensors. The exhibit has a longer standby time but slightly less talk time. The i5 has more built in storage, but no external storage capability (they want you to pay for cloud storage). The i5 has a dual core processor compare to the exhibits single core.

So the bottom line is that the iphone 5 is a better phone than the exhibit, but not by much. I don't think its worth $600 more.

As a side note for $199 I can upgrade to the new iphone, but yes I could get a better "spec" phone for less. I think you're missing a bit of the point though. iOS works much better than android because they have a limited numbers of designs to develop for and thus they are more efficient and simpler to use. Dont get me wrong I love my android and it is far better, in my opinion, than an iphone but I spent a lot of time customizing it to be so and the avg user doesnt want to do that thus the iOS make the similar hardware preform better. Plus, apple has a lot of add-in features that are still awkward in google, i.e backups, music, market, siri, and they do work great with their other products.


Now if you are saving money on your month to month over a contract all depends on usage. For most people the cost will be very close, with in ten bucks. That being said people with a contract probably have a bit nicer phone but are stuck with their contract.

[Jiggles]

I don't understand people's resilience to a contract. How often do you jump ship between carriers?

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I don't understand people's resilience to a contract. How often do you jump ship between carriers?

3 carriers in 14 months, 4 between 2 countries in 24 months

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

dude...... are you serious? the iphone5 makes your phone look silly.

You really think its lack of a gyro is that important? The i5 has twice the cpu and doesn't run any faster. That means its dogged down by spyware and other crap that slows it down. Even with all the apple polishing, some reviews I read said that it can't let you surf and talk at the same time. I thought that was standard on all smart phones. Perhaps its just a bug that they are working on.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Woweee! Good thing they are the same price!

They aren't. I'm talking non-contract prices.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I don't understand people's resilience to a contract. How often do you jump ship between carriers?

I hope you guys do realize that when you sign a contract you are simply making payments on the phone. If you like making payments, then go for it.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I don't understand people's resilience to a contract. How often do you jump ship between carriers?

Wrong word there, but I know what you mean and I've got an answer for you: It's not the lack of freedom to switch, it's the lack of freedom to chose who you want in the first place. I can't spend $200 and then get StraightTalk unlimited everything for $45 a month. I have to spend $200 and then spend way more than that every month for two years or use it far less than I desire (less data, no messaging, minimal minutes, etc).

[massacremasses]

I think Im done here -__-

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

I think Im done here -__-

+1 It's like trying to tell a virgin what a vagina feels like but he thinks he already knows because he heated up an apple pie....





You're going to have to just trust me on this one, its not the same

[Liquidtoon]

you slutty pie you !

oh sorry.

phones....

yep, over priced computers designed by big brother.

:+)

[n4mwd]

So what's the deal about the i5 not being able to talk and surf simultaneously? Is it just a carrier limitation (verizon) or is the phone really that crippled?

[Alex]

It's not the phone. There isn't a phone available that can do it on Verizon's network.

http://www.cultofmac.com/190611/no-s...rint-iphone-5/

Edit: after reading this link, I stand corrected:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...-5-calls-data/

The Galaxy SIII can do both at the same time on Verizon's network, and they can do it as they added a third antenna just for that reason. Go Samsung.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Alex

It's not the phone. There isn't a phone available that can do it on Verizon's network.

http://www.cultofmac.com/190611/no-s...rint-iphone-5/

Edit: after reading this link, I stand corrected:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...-5-calls-data/

The Galaxy SIII can do both at the same time on Verizon's network, and they can do it as they added a third antenna just for that reason. Go Samsung.

DAMNIT I should have waited and not got the Nexus... Google said it would get all the updates and this and that and blah blah blah, then they bought Motorolla and forgot about it -__-

[Jiggles]

I thought with the addition of sim cards and LTE that Verizon would be able to talk and surf?

[Alex]

I think LTE has the capability to do that, but it's a matter of Verizon starting to enable talking over LTE. Right now all their voice traffic goes over CDMA, even those phones that do LTE data.

[Jiggles]

Oh silly Verizon and their wrong choice of wireless technology