Ron Paul!

[ninja_sleeper]

The media corrupts the masses, which is made obvious in the video I posted.

Will the amount of people that have logical thinking patterns ever outweigh the amount of people that do as they are told?

Prospects are saddening. Not to be negative.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by alex.s

also what was the strategic purpose iraq fulfilled? WMDs? oh right about that...

Iraq was and still is of strategic importance. I would call the 3rd largest oil field in the world important. Im sure if China controled the area the oil would flow freely to the rest of the world. lol

Originally Posted by alex.s

do you mean, other people have something we want, so we need to bully them into submission? what strategic interests are we protecting exactly again?

oil. Pretty important to our society and way of life in my opinion.

Originally Posted by alex.s

heard of the UN or Nato?

And who contributes to Nato and the UN in any significant way other than the US??

Originally Posted by alex.s

what? why? that's the most ridiculous statement i've heard in a while. if you think us fighting wars overseas like iraq and libya is protecting us citizens you're sorely mistaken. protecting the US government's interests, yes. citizens? no.

Are you planning on walking everywhere and living in the dark?? Guess you dont use any petroleum products.
BTW we didnt invade Libya and have no strategic reason to be there in my opinion.

Originally Posted by alex.s

when was the last time canada or mexico was invaded? and not by us.

Where did canada and mexico come into this?? They wont ever be invaded by anyone because of the US military.

Originally Posted by alex.s

again, noone is talking about disbanding the military. people are talking about reducing the massive amount we spend on our military to something sensible. look at our military budgets then look at every other country. there's a substantial difference.

Uh yeah and I like it like that. Its brought us the stealth fighter, bomber, GPS, nighvision, thermobaric bomb, Ceramic armor, and a million other firsts to the battelfield. Whats next?? Human Assisted Neural Devices, whats that? It seeks to use the human mind to run machinery. Unmanned aerial and terrain vehicles and increased use of robotics will also be a part of tomorrow's military. Think that stuff is cheap??

Originally Posted by alex.s

WHAT? are you kidding me? do you even know why we were attacked? why everyone else in this world hates us? why the rest of the world thinks the US is a bunch of nosy aholes always meddling in every other country's business?

And if we pull out of everywhere in the world they will be nice to us right? Yeah right. Guess your a muslim fundamentalist, right? Your not? Then they hate you. Your an infidel, a non believer and you must be killed. I know a little about this as I am a Lebanese Catholic whos family was run out of the middle east when the muslim fundamentalist called the PLO took over the country.

[CynicalC]

You are so far out of touch with reality that it's frightening. You talk about being invaded like they're gonna come over on pirate ships and just storm the white house, plant a flag and take over. You're in a complete fantasy world, absolutely out of your mind.

And for the love of god, if you want to be taken even remotely seriously - YOU'RE. Learn it. Use it.

[almost40]

Your kidding right Cynical?? Your in the fantasy world if you believe they are not interested in converting the entire population.... They believe.... So much so that they will strap bombs to themselfs.
They ran the catholics out of the middle east, next is the jews. when they finish with that, europe is on the docket.
They dont have to invade. Fear is the weapon of choice. Bury your head in the sand and wait till they hit our shores. Thats a good strategy.
I would rather fight them over there than in my back yard so to speak.

[CynicalC]

Hit our shores? You mean like, in boats? To "convert" us eh? Oooookay. So China and Russia, why do they want to invade the US again?

[TnNinjaGirl]

Cynical ruins yet another thread.

[Xoulrath]

This thread was all over the place before anyone said anything, and truthfully when politics is involved, it is hard not to be all over the place.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

You are so far out of touch with reality that it's frightening. You talk about being invaded like they're gonna come over on pirate ships and just storm the white house, plant a flag and take over. You're in a complete fantasy world, absolutely out of your mind.

And for the love of god, if you want to be taken even remotely seriously - YOU'RE. Learn it. Use it.

Im curious what your reality is??
Everyone holds hands and sings happy songs??
Its not like Russia ever invaded and controled another country. Nahhhh they wouldnt do that.
Ill bet in your reality China has no interest in expansion. They love the fact that Tiawan is a democracy and independant from the chi-coms rule.
The Chinese have no use for crude oil, they wouldnt take it from another country given the chance, right?
Give me a break.
Guess all thats hard to see with your head in the sand.

[kyrider]

China and Russia are so dependent on the west now. They need us to buy their goods. The Russians are making Trllions selling energy to Europe and the Chinese are making Trillions selling goods to the USA and Europe. This is not the 40's and 50's we are living in now.

I don't think we can afford to play policeman around the world any more.

Bring our brave men and women home and let them defend our borders.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Ren13

As far as China is concerned, Taiwan is already under their rule. And if Taiwan "officially" declares that it is a free country, China WILL intervene militarily. Funny thing is, if that ever happened, Taiwan's battle plan is to "hold out until relieved by the U.S." Do you know what WE say about Taiwan's independence?

Our policy toward the official independence of Taiwan is "Don't do anything to change the status quo".

That's ****ing sad. The "greatest" country in the world is a grovelling piece of **** in the face of China.

As far as Chi-com rule in Tiawan. They (being the Chinese) see it as a renegade province independant of the communist rule. Which it in fact, is.
Thats the reason we wont change the "status-quo". They have there own elections, stock market, and capitalist system. They are for all intensive purposes independant. Why rock the boat?
The fact that we are, at this point, a technologicly superior military in every way is the reason they havent tried to enforce communist rule on Tiawan. They are afraid. I dont blame them. I hope to keep it that way with billions upon billions of money spent on the defense budget.
There was a lesson that was taught in the 2 gulf wars in Iraq.(on CNN no less) The lesson learned was.......The US military is so far out in front that if they want to bomb your country......they can. Outdated Russian anti aircraft batterys are useless. The US will control the skies and then rain down hell from above if needs be.
When another country matches the US in technology all bets will be off. Until then. Im all for a huge defense budget. Nothing like having the best stuff on the battelfield. Keeps everyone in check so to speak.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by kyrider

China and Russia are so dependent on the west now. They need us to buy their goods. The Russians are making Trllions selling energy to Europe and the Chinese are making Trillions selling goods to the USA and Europe. This is not the 40's and 50's we are living in now.

I don't think we can afford to play policeman around the world any more.

Bring our brave men and women home and let them defend our borders.

And the chinese need energy to bring the 750 million plus people who are still living in the dark ages to the light.
They have 2 choices.
Russia or the middle east.
I dont think russia will give it up peacefully.
I know it will be alot tougher to overrun the US military presence in Iraq and Afgahnastan to get to the oil riches of the middle east.
This isnt that tought to figure out. Just look at a world map. Iraq is the door to the oil fields.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by TnNinjaGirl

Cynical ruins yet another thread.

Get lost you creep.

[almost40]

Heres a map of muslim influence for ya. Bet you thought it was just a few little countries in the middle east.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by almost40

Heres a map of muslim influence for ya. Bet you thought it was just a few little countries in the middle east.

No, don't project. Not everyone is that ignorant and bigoted.

You still haven't answered my questions. I suspect it's because typing out the answer will force upon you the realization of how crazy it actually sounds.

I want for you to confirm to me your belief that the russians and chinese will actually come here on boats and planes, and just take over? I want to hear more about this. Are they gonna kick us out of our own country? Kill us? You say they want to "expand". So is it that they just don't have enough room? So they're gonna take over and just move all their people here to live a better life with all the newfound space?

I just want to make sure we're on the same page. Any more details you could provide on this invasion would be appreciated. Details!

And what now, does this "muslim influence" have to do with Russia, China and the US?

[alex.s]

i have a question.

when was the last time a super power (lets say one of the top 10 based on gdp) was invaded by an external hostile military force?

[alex.s]

also about your "strategic protection of resources" ... you're talking about oil right? like the 2.2% that comes from iraq? or the only other large amount that comes out of the middle east, the 6% that comes from saudi arabia? by your logic we should invade canada so we can get cheaper oil.

also... Afghanistan? oil? ... in afghanistan?... maybe check on the production rates for afghani oil reserves... they're at 0 barrels per day. yes... zero. that means no oil.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by almost40

And the chinese need energy to bring the 750 million plus people who are still living in the dark ages to the light.
They have 2 choices.
Russia or the middle east.
I dont think russia will give it up peacefully.
I know it will be alot tougher to overrun the US military presence in Iraq and Afgahnastan to get to the oil riches of the middle east.
This isnt that tought to figure out. Just look at a world map. Iraq is the door to the oil fields.

What kyrider is trying to say is why are we out nation building when we should be nation building at home FIRST. Why do we need to police the world? Who said we needed to do it? If anything our overseas interests are mainly to exploit countries for their natural resources for our interests in addition to our meddling which is why most of the world is pissed at us. China is already ahead of us in the game of alternative energy due mainly to owning the majority of rare earths. Oil is a limited natural resource we should be conserving, we really need to get into alternative renewable resources.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i have a question.

when was the last time a super power (lets say one of the top 10 based on gdp) was invaded by an external hostile military force?

It hasn't happened only because we has teh most powerfulest military in teh WORRRLD and everyone is scared to attack each other because of us.

[kyrider]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

No, don't project. Not everyone is that ignorant and bigoted.

You still haven't answered my questions. I suspect it's because typing out the answer will force upon you the realization of how crazy it actually sounds.

I want for you to confirm to me your belief that the russians and chinese will actually come here on boats and planes, and just take over? I want to hear more about this. Are they gonna kick us out of our own country? Kill us? You say they want to "expand". So is it that they just don't have enough room? So they're gonna take over and just move all their people here to live a better life with all the newfound space?

I just want to make sure we're on the same page. Any more details you could provide on this invasion would be appreciated. Details!

And what now, does this "muslim influence" have to do with Russia, China and the US?

Well cynical if you take your head out of the sand long enough to read a little about the history of the Russia I shouldnt have to explain anything about that countrys desire to conquer. They have shown a willingness to do it anytime and often and recently as a matter of fact. (Georgia 2008 a country that was seeking entrance into nato at the time of the invasion.) Is it crazy to think they are not an enemy?? You betcha. Will they invade the US?? Not this year. Did they have there sights set on all of Europe in the not so distant past?? yes. Why didnt they charge thru our allies in Europe?? The US military and its capability.

On to China. A country who in the distant past was very tiny and is now the second largest nation in the world. Need I say more?? Ask the Japanese how they feel about the Chinese. How about the people of Tibet or Vietnam. China has been around for thousands of years. They conquer. Thats what they do.


Im not sure what you are trying to acomplish by asking your question other than to pick a sentance or two out of my numerous posts here and say see your wrong.
It just doesnt work like that. Not in my world anyway.
China and Russia are enemys of the US. Is that hard to figure out?? Saying they will never invade our country so we should just ignore them is just plain goofy not to mention suicidal for our country.

Now you havent answered my question yet.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by alex.s

also about your "strategic protection of resources" ... you're talking about oil right? like the 2.2% that comes from iraq? or the only other large amount that comes out of the middle east, the 6% that comes from saudi arabia? by your logic we should invade canada so we can get cheaper oil.

also... Afghanistan? oil? ... in afghanistan?... maybe check on the production rates for afghani oil reserves... they're at 0 barrels per day. yes... zero. that means no oil.

Might wana go back a few pages here. Check your oil facts.
Saudia arabia is the 2nd largest importer of oil to the states. Iraq is the 7th. Its not about how much we get from there today but how much is still avalible to be pumped that matters.

[kyrider]

In his own words.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[alex.s]

I like Ron Paul.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

What kyrider is trying to say is why are we out nation building when we should be nation building at home FIRST. Why do we need to police the world? Who said we needed to do it? If anything our overseas interests are mainly to exploit countries for their natural resources for our interests in addition to our meddling which is why most of the world is pissed at us. China is already ahead of us in the game of alternative energy due mainly to owning the majority of rare earths. Oil is a limited natural resource we should be conserving, we really need to get into alternative renewable resources.

Yeah and we will when someone figures out how to make more energy than a barrel crude does pound for pound or gallon for gallon. Its by far the best energy source at this point in time.

[kyrider]

Ron Paul on oil.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2415

http://glassbooth.org/explore/index/...-and-energy/7/

[almost40]

Originally Posted by alex.s

I like Ron Paul.

I like him too. Hes just wrong about the national defense thing in my opinion.
I hope he gets a cabinet post that utilizes his stance on spending. I cant disagree with him when hes talking about our economy. Hes right.
He just cant win.
He won the straw poll during the last election. It means jack$hit.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Ren13

Where did you find this piece of **** map?

Guess you do think it just a few little countries
There is over 1 billion muslims.

[alex.s]

i'm still confused how Muslims got involved in this...

[almost40]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i'm still confused how Muslims got involved in this...

Try post 106

[kyrider]

Take some time and watch the six part interview.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Ren13

You didn't answer my question.

Also, there are over 2 billion christians.

You know what scares me the most?

People who think one religion is worse than the others.

well sorry thats scarry to you. Im only scared of the ones who strap explosives to themselfs and claim to do it in the name of there religion.

map came from here
www.islam101.com
type world maps into bing and thats where I found it.

[CynicalC]

SLOW DOWN. You are piling on so much stupid that nobody can keep up!

Originally Posted by almost40

I shouldnt have to explain anything about that countrys desire to conquer.

That's a slimy way of saying you don't know **** about the subject.

Originally Posted by almost40

Is it crazy to think they are not an enemy?? You betcha.

No, it's crazy to think that they ARE the enemy. Seriously, what decade are you living in?

Originally Posted by almost40

On to China. A country who in the distant past was very tiny and is now the second largest nation in the world. Need I say more??

Yes, you should. Nobody has a clue what you mean by this. Explain yourself.

Originally Posted by almost40

Ask the Japanese how they feel about the Chinese. How about the people of Tibet or Vietnam. China has been around for thousands of years. They conquer. Thats what they do.

Japan conquered China, tard. Why don't you ask Chinese people how they feel about Japan.

Originally Posted by almost40

China and Russia are enemys of the US. Is that hard to figure out??

It is. I want you to explain it. Stop saying "They want to conquer because that's what they do" That's retarded. Tell me why they're an enemy. Do we have something they want? Do they just want to live here because they are tired of the weather back home?

Originally Posted by almost40

Now you havent answered my question yet.

What was your question?

Originally Posted by almost40

well sorry thats scarry to you. Im only scared of the ones who strap explosives to themselfs and claim to do it in the name of there religion.

Because your religion would never do anything so batshit crazy right?

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Ren13

Yeah I'm sure there's nothing remotely religious about our armies or anything.

Nope, nothing at all.

You're fooling yourself.

Just because we don't strap bombs to ourselves and scream ALLAH AKBAR at the top of our lungs doesn't mean we are any less guilty of religious wars.

Also, you don't think that an Islamic website is just A LITTLE biased when it comes to determining "the spread" of Islam. More reputable source, please.

I fear for the United States and its future everytime I hear someone like you open their mouth.

I think I explained why i think we were involved and still are in Iraq and will be for years and years to come. If you think it was because GW Bush or his daddy started it over religion. Good for you. I think mine might be a little closer to the truth. Hey, to each his own.
As far as the spread of Islam goes. Believe what you want...its all good. My family has witnessed it firsthand. Go ahead and try to tell me that Islam is peaceful and they tolerate all other religions. Its your story, but i wonder why theres a need for armed gaurds and cement barriers at the catholic and christian churchs that have managed to remain in lebanon. (in the moutains no less, there are none in the major cities, they have all been either destroyed or converted to mosques) No such gaurds or barriers exist at the mosqes in Beruit.
Ill even bet the jews might even agree with me on this one as they are under constant attack from the north and south by the muslim fundamentalist.

Btw your welcome to find me a map that doesnt show the spread of Islam to the extent of the one I have posted..... Good luck with that.

[almost40]

I dont even know where to begin with you cynical.
What facts have you brought to this discussion?? How about an opinion of your own?? The only rational thing you posted was on post 139. You pointed out the obvious. Exactly the point im trying to make about having a strong defense. It scares our enimies.
Other than that you have spent your time here trying to pick apart my opinion and facts and calling me stupid. Do you think that makes you look like the smart guy in the thread??
Now I could post an explanation to every one of your above questions but it would be an exercise in futility as you dont really have an opinion do ya?
How about this. Astound us all with your brilliant analysis of why Ron Paul should or shouldnt be elected president. Give us a couple reasons why he should or should not be elected. Its real easy to call someoes opinion on a given subject stupid. I can do that all day. Give us all a little taste of your brilliance on the subject of why Russia and China are not our enimies.
Ill be waiting................... to call you stupid or chicken.
Grow a pair and post up your opinion.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by almost40

The only rational thing you posted was on post 139. You pointed out the obvious. Exactly the point im trying to make about having a strong defense. It scares our enimies.

You still haven't said what makes them our enemies. All you keep saying is thatthey want to invade us, not why or how.

Originally Posted by almost40

Other than that you have spent your time here trying to pick apart my opinion and facts and calling me stupid. Do you think that makes you look like the smart guy in the thread??

I'm not trying to look like a smart guy or make you look dumb. It's the things that you're saying that are so profoundly and epically stupid that I have a hard time believing that you're not just expertly trolling. I'm not picking on you, I just need to know if you're actually serious. I'm asking all these questions to find out the truth!

Now I could post an explanation to every one of your above questions but

No you can't.

How about this. Astound us all with your brilliant analysis of why Ron Paul should or shouldnt be elected president. Give us a couple reasons why he should or should not be elected.

Well I don't think I'll be astounding anyone. You're a pretty tough act to follow. I've already made my position clear. I do support Ron Paul. I think he's a brilliant guy, and speaks many truths. He genuinely wants what's best for this country and its people and isn't just anoter slimy politician with a fake smile and pockets to fill. He realizes what a cluster**** our government and our economy have become and doesn't sugarcoat it. You can call his ideas radical, but it only seems that way because they're different and you're used to seeing the same thing over and over again for decades. I think we can all agree that we NEED to start doing things differently if we want to get out of the "mess" we're in. I don't pretend to be an expert on any of this, these are just my opinions since you asked for them. If you disagree with anything I've said, I would love to know what and why.

Its real easy to call someoes opinion on a given subject stupid. I can do that all day. Give us all a little taste of your brilliance on the subject of why Russia and China are not our enimies.

I'm sorry but that's not how it works. You made the statement that "China and Russia are enemies of the US." The burden of proof is on you, not me. You don't get to tell me "prove to me that they're not."

[alex.s]

it must be their flags





("but thats the soviet russian flag")

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by Ren13

Ron Paul would be a great president, would shake things up, but I think he's viewed as "too radical" to the everyday American. So I don't think he'll ever become president.

Originally Posted by ninja_sleeper

The media corrupts the masses.

Don't lose hope.

[kyrider]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Don't lose hope.

Amen Brother!!!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

You still haven't said what makes them our enemies. All you keep saying is thatthey want to invade us, not why or how.
I'm not trying to look like a smart guy or make you look dumb. It's the things that you're saying that are so profoundly and epically stupid that I have a hard time believing that you're not just expertly trolling. I'm not picking on you, I just need to know if you're actually serious. I'm asking all these questions to find out the truth!

And what makes them our allies?? Im pretty sure at one point we almost went to war. All over the russians putting missles in Cuba. Not to mention the whole cold war ordeal. Nor the threats that were associated with the recently cancled missle defense shield in polanda and the czech republic. The russians considered that a political and military victory. Now if they are not enemys why is that considered a political and military victory??

Now, once again I am defending my position to a guy what hasnt stated his opinion or used a single fact to back up his claims. (other than to call me stupid and now trolling of course.)
How about your reasons as to why they are not our enimies??

Do I really have to explain why a communist country, like china is not our friend again?? I think if you read some of my posts here you might be able to figure out why I think they are an enemy.
Do ya mind telling me why you think they are not??

Originally Posted by CynicalC

I do support Ron Paul. I think he's a brilliant guy, and speaks many truths. He genuinely wants what's best for this country and its people and isn't just anoter slimy politician with a fake smile and pockets to fill. He realizes what a cluster**** our government and our economy have become and doesn't sugarcoat it.

159 post in and we get your opinion on Ron Paul
And Im called the guy trolling.
Granted you did say, I support ron paul. on post 12
Other than that, not a single opinion was posted until now.
Congratulations you picked the most bland way to describe why your support for Ron Paul. A 20+ year politician who couldnt be slimy or have a fake smile. Nahh hes the only genuine 20+ year politician I know. Theres no way he has been corrupted by washington. Hes only been a republican and a libertarian. Nothing like sticking to your Ideoligy but jumping ship when you figure out you will never win the presidential election as a libertarian.
Boy what brilliant genius it takes to figure out how screwed we are economcly.

Now dont get the wrong Idea. I have posted what I do and dont like about Ron Paul. Do ya have any reason to not like him? Since you finally decided to join the discussion?

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Ren13

That's ****ing HILARIOUS.

GEORGE BUSH HIMSELF said he invaded because "God told him to".

Gotta love obvious from the mouth evidence being completely ignored in your desperate plea to shoo away the facts.

Oh ok so In God we trust isnt printed on our money?? Nor are we one nation under God indivisable with liberty and justice for all.
Did they still say the pledge when you went to school??

Go ahead and ignore the fact that china has a limited amount of crude in its territory and can in no way supply itself from within its own borders. Is it a coinsidence that they are now running to and fro and buying up drilling sites and leases to drill....... like crack to a crack addict? In your opinion there is no way that it was every considered by the chi-coms to just go and take over an oil field or two to supply the growing economy in china? It would have been a cakewalk thru the middle east for the chi-coms. That was never considered?? It isnt considered a cakewalk now seeing as how theres a couple hundered thousand US troops in the reigon along with countless air bases and lots and lots of US military hardware. Those are some of the facts as I see them.

Originally Posted by Ren13

We are a warmongering nation.

Yes we are to the extent that we support the overthrow of dictators who kill the population of there own country to enrich themselfs. You have a problem with that or is genocide something you support?

Originally Posted by Ren13

- We make money
in wartime

we do?? then why is everyone complining about the cost of the "wars" we are currently engaged in??

Originally Posted by Ren13

- Military contractors make money in wartime

- DICK ****ING CHENEY (ex Vice president of the USA, if you already forgot) was the CEO of Halliburton before he became Vice President. Whoah, odd, a Vice President who worked for an Oil company beforehand? Nah that's not suspicious or anything.

- We get to keep a HUGE military budget under the guise of "oh we need more monies to fight in afghanistan and iraq". Guess where that money goes.

Yeah nothing suspicious about any of that.

Thats the 2012 budget. Guess its Obama or Biden that is now secretly working for haliburton right??
Ever looked into haliburton and what they do for the US military?? The biggest role they play is logistical with a smattering of "hired military contractors" (mercs) for protection. Someone has to move the supplies and what not around a war zone. Haliburton pays $200,000+ to truck drivers in a war zone during a war. (would you drive 10000 gallons of aviation fuel acrost a war zone for anything less?) Not to mention provide security for those convoys of supplies. Think that comes cheap?

Originally Posted by Ren13

"Foreign arms sales" (Wouldn't be surprised if we were selling to our ****ing enemies to keep this stupid-ass war going.)

We would never sell equiptment to our allies. Nahhhh why would we do that?
as a matter of fact. The Obama administration just cancled the sale of 65 fighters to Tiawan. Nothing like keeping the people here in the states employed. Way to focus on jobs there Mr president. Fighter planes are made here in the US by americans.