Occupy Wall Street

[kyrider]

Well, just read online that they did get a group of 40 to march on the courthouse in Nashville recently.

["A"]

[kyrider]

Originally Posted by "A"

Not a very good comparison.

[massacremasses]

yeah texas sucks

["A"]

Originally Posted by kyrider

Not a very good comparison.

You come up with a better one then.

[250rr]

From reason.com

["A"]

Originally Posted by 250rr

From reason.com

WTF adds up to total of 100% in that histogram?

[250rr]

Not sure I understand. What do you think should add up to 100%?

["A"]

Originally Posted by 250rr

Not sure I understand. What do you think should add up to 100%?

All the numbers displayed in a single histogram should add up to 100%.

As it displays in the first 3 blue columns:
Top 1% is paying 38%,
Top 5% is paying 58.8%
Top 10% is paying 69.9%

That adds up to over 100% of the tax paid already, how is that possible?

[Alex]

Because the 5% includes the 1%. And the 10% includes the 5% and the 1%. They aren't independent groups of data.

The only ones that should (and do) add to 100% are the rightmost two bars, the top 50% and the bottom 50%. That said, the chart is still used in intentionally misleading ways by limiting the discussion to "federal personal income tax" rather than a more complete picture of how taxes affect members from the wealthiest to the poorest of the population.

[kyrider]

Commies!

[massacremasses]

The poorest dont pay taxes?

[greenaero]

The so-called poor don't pay federal taxes and get money from the Federal Gov't from those of us that do work and pay federal taxes. The US "poor " don't go hungry ( in fact most are obese) , have color tVs, computers, video games, cellphones, cars, etc. I don't want anyone to suffer but there are enough governmental and charitable assistance programs to prevent that.

Anyone in this country can study , work hard and go from being poor to being comfortable or even wealthy. The key word is to work hard and work smart. I know from personal experience, starting out dirt poor but ending up doing well and being professionally successful.

Our country is unique in the world in the opportunities that every person willing to apply themselves has. Don't get sucked in by this socialist, "social justice " BS that would turn our nation into another failed socialist state like most of Europe. You pay for so-called free education and medical coverages with higher taxes and your freedom. Don't let America become another Greece.

[massacremasses]

Ron Paul 2012

[250rr]

Originally Posted by Alex

Because the 5% includes the 1%. And the 10% includes the 5% and the 1%. They aren't independent groups of data.

The only ones that should (and do) add to 100% are the rightmost two bars, the top 50% and the bottom 50%.

Thanks Alex. I could have explained that, but it wouldn't have been as concise or understandable.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

The poorest dont pay taxes?

most poor people do pay consumption taxes, but the EIC offsets a lot of it.
a rich person is subjected to much more in income taxes and governmental fees.

[kyrider]

Ron Paul 2012

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by lgk

most poor people do pay consumption taxes, but the EIC offsets a lot of it.
a rich person is subjected to much more in income taxes and governmental fees.

With their EBT cards? Isnt the govt. just paying itself back with the taxpayer money it already gave to the said poor person....

[lgk]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

With their EBT cards? Isnt the govt. just paying itself back with the taxpayer money it already gave to the said poor person....

i assumed graph showed legit poor people that pay taxes.
technically, government employees and disabled folks also pay back with tax money.

the difference between legit and not is if they earned it.

the hardest thing that the welfare rat did to get money is sign some forms, and they live better than legit poor people. its really not fair...

[massacremasses]

I know ive had this discussion with the guys that work here, have kids and barely get buy but have buddies who's women are on food stamps, cash aid and live like slobs, but have flat screen tvs, and eat steak and fast food all the time... Im not exaggerating at all either I see it on a regular basis.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by greenaero

The so-called poor don't pay federal taxes and get money from the Federal Gov't from those of us that do work and pay federal taxes. The US "poor " don't go hungry ( in fact most are obese) , have color tVs, computers, video games, cellphones, cars, etc. I don't want anyone to suffer but there are enough governmental and charitable assistance programs to prevent that.

Anyone in this country can study , work hard and go from being poor to being comfortable or even wealthy. The key word is to work hard and work smart. I know from personal experience, starting out dirt poor but ending up doing well and being professionally successful.

Our country is unique in the world in the opportunities that every person willing to apply themselves has. Don't get sucked in by this socialist, "social justice " BS that would turn our nation into another failed socialist state like most of Europe. You pay for so-called free education and medical coverages with higher taxes and your freedom. Don't let America become another Greece.

You, like most people, dont stop to think that maybe poor people dont pay federal income taxes because maybe they are poor and they're cant afford to pay more. Then you say, well they have TVs, cell phones, and refrigerators!



I didn't know that by having these products disqualifies you from being poor. Maybe, they saved up to purchase one like everyone else did? You say you dont want people to suffer but you want to cut the programs that do offer assistance. So charity is suppose to step in? Well that depends on them having money donated to them, which is difficult when no one has much to give themselves.

Yes, hardworking smart people can sometimes get ahead but the circumstances have changed significantly in the past thirty years.

For any critical thinkers, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this excerpt.

http://www.wwcd.org/issues/Lakoff.html

I really find it to be quite accurate and fits right back into that study on Authoritarian followers found here.

[massacremasses]

how many poor people have cell phones?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

how many poor people have cell phones?

Homeless people who have nothing have cellphones, I know, I sell phones to them, and we aren't even cheap service like metro.

[massacremasses]

i know... this confuses me....

[kyrider]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

Yes, hardworking smart people can sometimes get ahead but the circumstances have changed significantly in the past thirty years.

Yes, those smart, hardworking people are having to work harder and longer to pay the taxes to support those who won't work.

Theres your critical thinking.

[greenaero]

@shiroganeshinobi,
The "poor" don't pay taxes because either they choose not to work or they are not good earners because they screwed up their lives with bad choices. There are always exceptions but unfortunately most of our " poor" would fall into one or both of those categories. I don't want them to pay more, I want our governement out of the charity business and for all US taxpayers to pay less ( yes, even those evil rich people!).
You totally miss my point on the lifestyle of American poor is that they are not suffering from physical needs. The term poor infers a lack of physical needs, not so with the American poor.

When I was young I never had a color TV or air conditioning or even a car until I could pay for it. I was jealous of other kids who had it easier than me until I stopped whining about the " unfairness " of it all and started applying myself to getting a good job, saving my money, setting goals and achieving them. Poverty in this country is not a permanent caste as in other countries where your birth status pretty much determines your lot in life. As I mentioned before I don't want people starving to death but I don't want my tax dollars creating a dis-incentive to work to better your lot in life. What's the longest , most expensive war the USA had ever engaged in? Answer: the war on poverty, from 1964 to today with no significant improvement.

As far as charities taking care of the needs of the poor, they do a much better job than all the government programs and probably could handle the job at a fraction of the cost that the government throws away at it. Though of course there be fewer poor people with cellphones, video games , and big screen TVs .

I checked out your link but find it just typical liberal propoganda. The great thing about conservatism is that it is as plain as the nose on your face. Seeing how life and human nature really works validates it. Hopefully one day you will wake up and smell the coffee.
best wishes, GA

[Alex]

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by greenaero

@shiroganeshinobi,
The "poor" don't pay taxes because either they choose not to work or they are not good earners because they screwed up their lives with bad choices. There are always exceptions but unfortunately most of our " poor" would fall into one or both of those categories.

I checked out your link but find it just typical liberal propoganda. The great thing about conservatism is that it is as plain as the nose on your face. Seeing how life and human nature really works validates it. Hopefully one day you will wake up and smell the coffee.
best wishes, GA

Wow, no one read the link? Sure it's academically dry but it's interesting to read. Anyways, this is the difference between our thinking which the link I provided shows. Your conservative beliefs are based upon moral strength and self interest. My liberal beliefs are based on empathy and nurturance. In a simpler terms, conservatives follow a strict father model and liberals follow a Nurturant mother model. You saw an attempt to define conservatism in way you saw different and took it as an attack on your beliefs. "If they are not with us, then they are against us!" The link is not an attack on conservatism but a way of viewing it and liberalism.

Watch these videos where conservatives criticize the safety net and yet depend on it at the same time.

Matt Taibbi has some good stuff that fringes on the sensationalistic side but his recent article has some interesting insight with the republican primaries.

Given the continued troubles and the continued failure to return to good old American values, who else could possibly be to blame? Where else could they possibly point the finger?

There was only one possible answer, and we're seeing it playing out in this race: At themselves! And I don’t mean they pointed the finger "at themselves" in the psychologically healthy, self-examining, self-doubting sort of way. Instead, I mean they pointed "at themselves" in the sense of, "There are traitors in our ranks. They must be ferreted out and destroyed!"

This is the last stage in any paranoid illness. You start by suspecting that somebody out there is out to get you; in the end, you’re sure that even the people who love you the most under your own roof, your own doctors, your parents, your wife and your children, they’re in on the plot. To quote Matt Damon in the almost-underrated spy film The Good Shepherd, they became convinced that there’s "a stranger in the house."

Then you have this nice quote from Jeb Bush recently. This quote is taken from time which references to politico.

“I used to be a conservative, and I watch these debates and I’m wondering, I don’t think I’ve changed, but it’s a little troubling sometimes when people are appealing to people’s fears and emotion rather than trying to get them to look over the horizon for a broader perspective, and that’s kind of where we are.”

Last but not least, I will leave this gem for you all.

The Republican Brain: Why Even Educated Conservatives Deny Science -- and Reality
New research shows that conservatives who consider themselves well-informed and educated are also deeper in denial about issues like global warming.

[lgk]

As far as charities taking care of the needs of the poor, they do a much better job than all the government programs and probably could handle the job at a fraction of the cost that the government throws away at it. Though of course there be fewer poor people with cellphones, video games, and big screen TVs.

i agree with this.
Charitable companies are far more efficient than government services.
they absorb all the risk and generate capital on their own to benefit those in need.

we could go further and say education should be eliminated as well.
the department of education is far from efficient and performance of our schools is poor compared to countries with privatized k-12 schools.

[massacremasses]

I department of education needs to go. I agree.

What may happen is that some states may have less educated kids... but so be it. I would rather see some succeed than have the fed. govt. drag everyone down.

[lgk]

What may happen is that some states may have less educated kids...

not really, experience shows that the parents will get more involved and the kids have more interest in school.
plus the competitiveness of the private sector, helps weed out teachers that perform poorly and criminals.

["A"]