Riding up and down hill

[RadenRider26]

Hey Guys,
Im going to ride up to the mountain twm.
Just want to ask about ridding up hill ( do i need to be in low gear like a car to get power to push me up)
also downhill braking (like in a car in low gear ) is it the same on the bike.

Please let me know because this is my first time and I'll be going in the next 12 hrs of posting this.

Please if any has any tips or tricks let me know.

[allanoue]

Yes, just like a car, except you need to be in gear before going into a turn. No popping clutch at the apex.

[Motofool]

While going downhill, the rear tire has less available traction even when the engine can do plenty of brake effect.
Be safe and have fun !!!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Yes, just like a car, except you need to be in gear before going into a turn. No popping clutch at the apex.

uhhh, unrelated to thread, but you totally should be in gear for the car, just like the bike. Has you no performance driving bone in you???

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

uhhh, unrelated to thread, but you totally should be in gear for the car, just like the bike. Has you no performance driving bone in you???

Going for a fast time? No

Having fun? Yes

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Going for a fast time? No

Having fun? Yes

Yeah... just for fun. You should be selecting gear on entry, just like a sporting ride on a motorcycle. Never coast.

Slow and select a gear, then you're set up for exit. Never coasting.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Yeah... just for fun. You should be selecting gear on entry, just like a sporting ride on a motorcycle. Never coast.

Slow and select a gear, then you're set up for exit. Never coasting.

Yes sir!

[RadenRider26]

Hey alll thank for the info much love, unfortunately i didn't end up going up cuz it was pissing down with rain

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by RadenRider26

Hey alll thank for the info much love, unfortunately i didn't end up going up cuz it was pissing down with rain

You are welcome

Rain and riding are compatible for many riders:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=162183

[RadenRider26]

Originally Posted by Motofool

You are welcome

Rain and riding are compatible for many riders:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=162183

I hand the ninja for 2 years and where i live we have a dry and wet season, so i driving through 2 wet season I'm cool with driving in the rain. since i haven't ridden roxy ( yes the ninja is called roxy) in the mountains yet i though it be smart not to do it in the rain, btw link no longer available

Motofool i think your they guy to ask this completely off topic 2 finger on the front brake fell unnatural to me is it i find it easier with 3 finger, so to my question dose it make any difference?

[cbinker]

More throttle up hill, less down hill.

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by RadenRider26

...
Motofool i think your they guy to ask this completely off topic 2 finger on the front brake fell unnatural to me is it i find it easier with 3 finger, so to my question dose it make any difference?

The difference: you have an extra finger to manipulate lever pressure, and one less to blip the throttle (if you're blipping). Pick a style/finger count, practice it, and you'll be fine.

[Sirref]

^ rossi uses 3 fingers to brake with

it's a personal thing, some riders use one on the lever, most use two, and a few use three

there isn't a single professional racer who uses four

[RadenRider26]

Originally Posted by toEleven

The difference: you have an extra finger to manipulate lever pressure, and one less to blip the throttle (if you're blipping). Pick a style/finger count, practice it, and you'll be fine.

iya i been practicing blipping when there not much traffic because I'm still not 100% with it yet as i have been practising it with with back brake lately and just moving to the front ( as i read on one of the threads here, and finding two finger not working cuz I'm use to braking with 3

[RadenRider26]

Originally Posted by Sirref

^ rossi uses 3 fingers to brake with

it's a personal thing, some riders use one on the lever, most use two, and a few use three

there isn't a single professional racer who uses four

no i fell better with 3 i never brake with 4 my girlfriend brake with 4

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by RadenRider26

........... btw link no longer available

Motofool i think your they guy to ask this completely off topic 2 finger on the front brake fell unnatural to me is it i find it easier with 3 finger, so to my question dose it make any difference?

Fixed:
http://www.soundrider.com/archive/sa...ainRiding.aspx

Three fingers feels unnatural to me, but I believe it does not make much difference if you feel more in control of brake pressure and throttle control that way.

As you practice more, you will find your own way of doing things.
It is important that you create the habit of using the front brake progressively, because that is what you will do without thinking during an emergency stop.

Take a look at this:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=589679

[RadenRider26]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Fixed:
http://www.soundrider.com/archive/sa...ainRiding.aspx

Three fingers feels unnatural to me, but I believe it does not make much difference if you feel more in control of brake pressure and throttle control that way.

As you practice more, you will find your own way of doing things.
It is important that you create the habit of using the front brake progressively, because that is what you will do without thinking during an emergency stop.

Take a look at this:
[url]https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=589679[/url

You can assume that painted or plastic lines and markings will be slick, including crosswalks and directional arrows. Brick surfaces will be slick when wet. Railroad or streetcar crossings will be slippery, especially the plastic or wooden aprons on both sides of the shiny rails. Oil and grease on the pavement will cause water to bead or streak, and may have a rainbow sheen. When you see a change in the color or texture of the surface, ride more conservatively until you can feel what’s happening.

This is a bit hard in Indonesia as there is alway a lot of crap on the road

An "outside-inside-outside” line will maximize the radius of turn and minimize slip

Can some please explain this a bit more to me?

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by RadenRider26

Can some please explain this a bit more to me?

The images attached to this post from Motofool might help. Well, you'll have a visual reference at least. That may not adequately explain the why's and how's and physics, but it's a good place to start.

You should also read the rest of the thread when you have a chance, and perhaps even add a question for csmith12 to answer.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by RadenRider26

When you see a change in the color or texture of the surface, ride more conservatively until you can feel what’s happening.
This is a bit hard in Indonesia as there is always a lot of crap on the road

For that reason, you need to be extra attentive about what your tires are rolling over.
That does not mean that you are constantly looking close ahead of your front tire, but you need to look far away as well in order to foresee dangerous situations of traffic.

Originally Posted by RadenRider26

An "outside-inside-outside” line will maximize the radius of turn and minimize slip
Can some please explain this a bit more to me?

Having only two wheels, we do not have to follow the curvature of a turn.
We can straighten any curve with our trajectory.
There are two reasons to do so whenever possible:

1) We increase the radius of the turn, which decreases the lateral forces that act on the contact patches of our tires trying to make then slide out of the turn (good for rainy conditions).
As a result, the bike needs less lean angle; so it can stay more vertical, which favors the performance of the suspension and the ground clearance of metal parts that could drag over the road.

2) We decrease the distance between entry and leaving points of the same curve.
As a result, we finish the turn in less time, even if traveling at the same speed.

You can reach the inside curb at or after the apex of the curve, but you should avoid reaching the inside curb before the apex of that curve.
That is specially dangerous in two-way roads, due to possible (and many times fatal) drifting into the path of traffic in the opposite direction.

Very important: That ideal line or trajectory can and should be adjusted according to traffic and road conditions.
You must keep a speed that allows to come to a controlled and quick stop or to precisely swerve within the space in front of you that you can see.

The recommended late apex technique for street riding allows you to see farther into a curve, allowing you to ride a little faster and safer.
Going too fast into a blind corner is a sure way to end up in a hospital or worse.
Your eyes lead, your mind computes and decides, and then bike follows ........... in that orderalways!

[RadenRider26]

Having only two wheels, we do not have to follow the curvature of a turn.
We can straighten any curve with our trajectory.
There are two reasons to do so whenever possible:

1) We increase the radius of the turn, which decreases the lateral forces that act on the contact patches of our tires trying to make then slide out of the turn (good for rainy conditions).
As a result, the bike needs less lean angle; so it can stay more vertical, which favors the performance of the suspension and the ground clearance of metal parts that could drag over the road.

2) We decrease the distance between entry and leaving points of the same curve.
As a result, we finish the turn in less time, even if traveling at the same speed.

You can reach the inside curb at or after the apex of the curve, but you should avoid reaching the inside curb before the apex of that curve.
That is specially dangerous in two-way roads, due to possible (and many times fatal) drifting into the path of traffic in the opposite direction.

Very important: That ideal line or trajectory can and should be adjusted according to traffic and road conditions.
You must keep a speed that allows to come to a controlled and quick stop or to precisely swerve within the space in front of you that you can see.

The recommended late apex technique for street riding allows you to see farther into a curve, allowing you to ride a little faster and safer.
Going too fast into a blind corner is a sure way to end up in a hospital or worse.
Your eyes lead, your mind computes and decides, and then bike follows ........... in that orderalways!

OK no i get that its Crystal clears thanks motofool yous is most help to me. im sure i will have more ridding skill question

[Motofool]

You are welcome

[chemist]

Late apex turns while street riding has been VERY valuable for me to learn. Amazing the gravel, roadkill you miss doing so.

[Omarel]

Up a really steep hill:

Roll the throttle. Super High revs. And stay in a low gear is the only way my ninja 250 will get up a really steep hill. Just did it the other day. Super steep. If my revs aren't high enough my bike stalls and it wasn't fun getting stuck in neutral up such a steep hill.

Down a really steep hill:

Low gear. Hold in the clutch and smoothly break when needed.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Omarel

Down a really steep hill:

Low gear. Hold in the clutch and keep smooth braking when needed.

uh... No.

You should almost never be moving with the bike while coasting and disconnected from the wheels. Unless it's those last 5mph down to zero at a stop light, which is fine.

Braking should be done firmly in short bursts before curves. This gives ample time to control brake temp to rescue risk of overheating. This is more of an issue on other vehicles, but it's a good practice to get into. Riding the brakes = soft brakes.

[Omarel]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

uh... No.

What's wrong with going down a steep hill while holding the clutch?

[Omarel]

Originally Posted by Omarel

What's wrong with going down a steep hill while holding the clutch?

I think you're right. I was probably just in first gear duh.

[verboten1]

You have no control.


Do you ride down the street with the clutch pulled in?

A hill, mountain, prairie is all just a road, ride them.

[choneofakind]

The parts in your gear box spin, regardless of if your clutch is engaged or disengaged, because the output shaft and gearbox innards are directly connected to your chain, which is spun off the rear wheel.

Your oil pressure varies greatly based on engine speed.

So let's say you're coasting down a hill at 55 mph with the clutch pulled. Your gearbox is spinning like mad. Your engine is idling at 1500 rpm, when it normally would be running 6000-ish rpm at that speed.

Seeing the potential for issue?




Animals running in front of you, surprise decreasing radius turns, avoiding traffic, etc; all best done without the delay of getting the engine back up to speed because it's a slow revver, even with a blip. And it should go without saying, but never take a curve while coasting.

It's good practice to keep the bike in a gear that makes sense for the speed you're traveling. The only riders I see who don't are either stubborn cruiser riders who have no skill and make me wonder how they're still alive when they wobble their way to a light, or rookies who are new to a manual transmission.




and please explain how your bike stalled up a hill that you were already moving up? How long have you been riding?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Omarel

I think you're right. I was probably just in first gear duh.

wat?

[RadenRider26]

Originally Posted by Omarel

Up a really steep hill:

Roll the throttle. Super High revs ( enough rev where you get a push up hill (at a safe speed) . And stay in a low gear is the only way my ninja 250 will get up a really steep hill. Just did it the other day. Super steep. If my revs aren't high enough my bike stalls and it wasn't fun getting stuck in neutral up such a steep hill.

up hill yes roll the throttle super high revs is a know. i have never stalled the bike up hill i have rolled back because i did have enough power but you just stop and do a hill start. ( same like in a car atuo or manual).

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Omarel

What's wrong with going down a steep hill while holding the clutch?

When you say holding the clutch, how EXACTLY are you holding it?

[Misti]

Many of you have said that you roll on the gas while going up the hill but what are you supposed to do with the throttle while you are riding down hill? Do you coast? Do you maintain, do you roll on?

[allanoue]

I roll on the gas, but I need to start into the turn slower, like a bike with more HP.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by Misti

Many of you have said that you roll on the gas while going up the hill but what are you supposed to do with the throttle while you are riding down hill? Do you coast? Do you maintain, do you roll on?

I leap and the net will appear!

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

I leap and the net will appear!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

I leap and the net will appear!

Ha! Good philosophy works most of the time.

Originally Posted by allanoue

I roll on the gas, but I need to start into the turn slower, like a bike with more HP.

K good. And good. Too many people end of coasting down hills thinking that is the proper way to ride down a hill.

Why do you want to be rolling on the gas while going downhill? What does it do for the machine?

[Omarel]

Originally Posted by Misti

but what are you supposed to do with the throttle while you are riding down hill? Do you coast? Do you maintain, do you roll on?

I think it depends on the steepness of the hill. I have one that is REALLY steep. I almost freak out.

I don't touch the throttle, the bike just rolls down fast enough. And get ready for any potential braking.

[snot]

Originally Posted by Misti

Ha! Good philosophy works most of the time.



K good. And good. Too many people end of coasting down hills thinking that is the proper way to ride down a hill.

Why do you want to be rolling on the gas while going downhill? What does it do for the machine?

stay on... I go slower as I roll off slightly. I only use the brakes if there is a stop or I go in a turn to hit (for me).

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Misti

Why do you want to be rolling on the gas while going downhill? What does it do for the machine?

Because you still need to transfer weight to the back wheel.

The acceleration you experience from going downhill is one that does not cause weight shift. It is the acceleration experienced uniformly by the mass of you+machine as you both go down the hill.

Because of this, you need to use the throttle accelerate the machine IN ADDITION TO this downhill acceleration to get proper weight transfer. Without the weight transfer to the back wheel, you're loading the front wheel heavily and are asking a lot of your front tire.

Many riders only slow as much as they do on flat ground when setting up entry speed for downhill curves. If they do the proper roll-on, they end up at a much higher corner speed and exit speed than they planned... then crash. If they skip the proper roll-on, they ask too much of the front tire... then crash. If they're lucky enough to not have crashed, they've at least scared themselves a little and/or lost control of lane position.


Rule of thumb for all corners for me when riding unfamiliar roads or under unfamiliar conditions: set entry speeds a little lower than normal, keep it wide, turn in late, and rail the throttle, as applicable. This works for uphill, downhill, flat, new roads, familiar roads, bad weather, etc. It's always better in my mind to take a corner a little slow than it is to scare the poop out of myself and/or bin it.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Omarel

I think it depends on the steepness of the hill. I have one that is REALLY steep. I almost freak out.

I don't touch the throttle, the bike just rolls down fast enough. And get ready for any potential braking.

Wrong, if you feel you need to coast through a turn, you started the turn going too fast. Slow down!