Seat height and width

[archaeofreak]

Sorry for yet another seat height post....

I am 5'2" and have a short inseam on top of that (somewhere around 27")...I went to the Kawasaki dealer today and sat on a new gen ninja 250 (30.5 seat height), and I could barely touch my tip-toes to the ground on both sides (I was wearing flip-flops)

I was planning on getting the 3rd gen 250 (29.3 seat height): How much closer to the ground will I be? I don't mean physically in distance (I know its 1.2" closer), I mean more in feel? If there is anyone around my inseam who can let me know I would appreciate it.

Also, I was wondering if anyone with a similar problem can list links here to all of the ways to shorten the bike.

I will list the ones I know of now, although I don't have links for specific instructions or parts...please provide these if possible!

1). Shave the seat. How do I do this? I haven't seen a how-to anywhere. How much height will this drop and still be comfortable?

2). Lower the bike. How do I do this right? The guy at the dealer told me it was a bad idea. I have read it is OK if I lower both front and back equally. True? How much can I safely lower?

3). Change the thickness of (rear?) tires. I read to go from a 130/80 to a 120/80. Is this correct? Can anyone list good tires in this size? How much height will this lose?

4). Change the pre-load (?) of the shocks...again, I don't know how to do this. Instructions? What about aftermarket shocks? Adjustables? I assume the seat height change is dependent on how much I weigh (145 LBS)...

5). Wear riding boots with heels or thick soles.


Finally, how much narrower is the seat from the 3rd gen compared to the 4th gen? Has anyone measured both before? I assume every inch narrower is like an inch lower, if the seat were the same thickness...

If anyone can add any other methods, thoughts or suggestions, I would appreciate it!

I would really like to be able to flat-foot, but my short inseam is killing me!

[Heed]

Originally Posted by archaeofreak

I was planning on getting the 3rd gen 250 (29.3 seat height): How much closer to the ground will I be? I don't mean physically in distance (I know its 1.2" closer), I mean more in feel?

You'll feel 1.2" closer.

[Mountain Dew]

You don't really need to touch both feet on the ground. If you can put one foot flat on the ground (while leaning it over slightly) you'll be fine.

[Cuongism]

I'm confused by your generation talk. New gens are 2008+ and they should all have the same seat height.

Changing the rear preload won't really adjust the seat height, but it adjusts how much the seat will compress when pressure is placed on it (ie rider's weight). I believe they come stock at 1 which is already the softest.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11956

Lowering with links.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14649

A Corbin seat is a bit wider, but I believe it's lower. Good luck!

[archaeofreak]

I was going off Wikipedia, which says gen 1 is 1983-84, gen 2 is 1986-87, gen 3 is 1988-2007 and gen 4 2008-present.

Is it correct that only gen 4's have adjustable pre-load?

[Alex]

For the purposes of this website, pre-gen is 2007 and earlier, new-gen are 2008+. Only the new-gen bikes have adjustable preload on the rear shock.

[TenaciousD]

I'm 5'4" with about a 28" inseam. I could get my toes down on my 2009 but for while I was learning I wanted to get my feet flat so I'd feel more confident. I installed the Roaring Toyz lowering kit front and back and it has worked out great. I can flat foot and while I'm sure the bike has reduced clearance, for my purposes it doesn't make any difference and I've never had a problem.
I also shortened my kickstand so the bike had sufficient lean angle when on the stand.

[archaeofreak]

How much was the kit and how much did you lower it...you still have 1" on me!

I know its not necessary to flat foot-but as a beginner I too would feel more comfortable having more than a left foot on the ground...I think with all the things listed combined I should be able to get both feet on the ground.

[massacremasses]

youre gonna have to do a lot. Im 5'6" with no lowering and I cant flat foot it... But hey take the MSF BRC Im ok with not being flat foot at this point. Like I think it might be nice, but I can dig it.

[Mazakawi]

Changing the tires from 130/80/17 to 120/80/17 will lower the bike by 4mm or .15625".

Not worth the cost IMO to lose a little more than 1/8" of height.

[gt_turbo]

some guys on this board have said they drop their bikes 2" front and back and its fine for them. it is said to effect your cornering and etc if you plan to do canyon riding. if not you'll be fine. also you should probably let a shop do it, if you are not mechanically inclined. otherwise search the board, there's plenty of links for lowering your bike, should you plan on doing it yourself. maybe you can find instructions on the manufacturer websites.

people with corbin seats, say it is definitely lower slightly, also you can custom order you seat from corbin with your concerns and they will build to suit your needs. maybe you should go back with proper boots on and try sitting on it again. sandals and boots make a kind of big deal.

[archaeofreak]

Good point. I might do that. How much is a corbin seat?

[nit8690]

lol no I hope you get it right for what you want for seat height I just have to say I am so gladd I am 6'2" lol I dont have this problem

[archaeofreak]

Yeah, being tall certainly helps for riding sport bikes...but at least I can be relatively comfortable on an airplane!

[adouglas]

The whole "all you need to do is get a toe down" thing almost always comes from those who have the luxury of being tall. I say to them, go get a three-inch-thick phone book, tape it to your seat, and try moving your bike around while sitting on it. Try backing it up a mild incline. Try pulling up next to a patch of gravel and see how secure your footing is when you lean the bike over to reach the ground. Go ahead. We'll wait.

I'm short. It IS an issue, especially for newbs. I've been riding since long before most of you were born and I LIKE to get my heel down, even if I don't need to.

To the OP, I recommend ignoring those people. You know even better than I do what it's like to not be able to reach things. Those who can just don't understand what a PITA it can be. Don't listen to them.

Answers to your questions:

0) (because you asked questions before numbering them) Both height and width are important to whether you can reach the ground. The newgen seat is narrower up front than the old seat IIRC, so your ability to touch down won't be as different as the seat height number suggests.

I'm 5'7" if I eat my Wheaties and have a 30" inseam. When wearing my normal riding boots (no lifts) I can get my heels down on a new GSXR, seat height listed as 31.9 inches, because the saddle is very narrow up by the tank.

Consider this if (when) you shave the seat.

Also important is the placement of the pegs. If you're trying to put your foot alongside the peg you have to angle your leg more. You can move the pegs with rearset adjusters to let your leg go straight down.

If this isn't clear, consider... what's the distance from your crotch to the ground if you put your feet two feet apart? What's the distance to the ground if you stand up straight with your ankles touching one another?
Best way to find out is to locate the bike and sit on it. You can't tell this stuff just by looking at spec sheets.

1) You're not looking hard enough. Try googling "seat shaving" for a start. Basically you take the vinyl off, carve the foam with an electric carving knife, and staple the cover back on. See above about height and width. Go to a dealer and have a good look at the seat on a recent GSXR... that's a good shape for those of us who are height-challenged.

2) Doing it right means lowering both ends equally. Failure to do this will alter the bike's geometry and therefore its handling, not necessarily in a good way.

Because our handlebars fit over the end of the fork tubes, you'll have to do some creative fiddling with the front end... clipons, lowering blocks, etc. You'll also need a lowering kit for the rear. Depending on how much you lower, you may have to have the kickstand cut and rewelded, or find a shorter kickstand on the aftermarket.

Riding-wise, lowering means that you can't lean as far. For a newb this is not a real issue, but if you start riding in a more spirited manner it can be dangerous because hard parts will touch down and possibly cause a crash.

3) Not worth it.

4) Simple, and it's in the owner's manual. Just turn the collar on the rear shock to reduce preload all the way, using the spanner in the tool kit (it comes that way, as I recall). Aftermarket is not geared for this... aftermarket shocks are meant for racers and are WAY expensive.

5) This is the cheapest, simplest, best approach IMHO and should be the first thing you try. Look up "shoe lifts." You can get shoes a size larger than normal and take up the space with insoles... make yourself tall enough for the bike. We're not talking platform boots, here. We're talking ordinary shoes that are probably smaller than those worn by most riding these bikes.

Summary:

- Reduce preload if it isn't already at minimum (free, but you're so short it won't do all you need it to)
- Try the shoes first (cheap, no alteration to bike)
- Shave the seat next (free, but you destroy the seat foam in the process so irreversible)
- Lower the bike last (much more expensive, with real tradeoffs)

[Mountain Dew]

Originally Posted by adouglas

The whole "all you need to do is get a toe down" thing almost always comes from those who have the luxury of being tall.

Sure I have the luxury of being tall on a ninjette/sport bike. But I've ridden bikes with 36" seat height like the F800GS and KLR650. I could BARELY get both tippy toes on the ground. I was able to get my foot flat at stop lights by leaning it over some, or put both toes on the ground if I needed two feet down for some reason.

Sure it may be intimidating at first to not have completely solid footing when you're starting out, but get used to it. Unless you're riding a cruiser, you WILL have to deal with it one way or another.

Oh, and you short people, lucky you, you can tuck waaay in. I can't even get my chin near the tank unless I'm starting to get on the pillion seat.

[Boom King]

Go with the lowering kit and get some boots with thick soles. If that's still not enough, look at shaving the seat. As you get more experience and confidence, the great thing is that you can bring it back up closer to stock height if you wanted.

The one foot or tinker bell toes method works to a degree and you will eventually learn it from experience and confidence but I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner who can barely tip toe as it is.

[archaeofreak]

Thanks for all the great replies everyone!

[bluepoof]

I'm 5'1", so I feel your pain.

I've had the best luck over the years with three things, in order of convenience (not necessarily price):

1) Boots with a rise in the sole. The ones I wear, Daytona Ladystar GTX, are pricy but incredibly durable and comfortable. I put this as #1 because they're obviously transferable across motorcycles and you can continue to wear them on any bike you ride in the future!

2) Custom seat. I get mine made by Rick Mayers in Northern California but there are others, too. I find that custom seats are awesome because they can be made thinner/narrower as well as thinner/shorter, if that makes sense. Having a pro shave down the seat to custom fit you and then add some nice tempur-pedic like foam in there makes for a very comfortable ride that fits perfectly.

3) Professional lowering. I've only had one bike lowered (I've owned about 10) and it was worth it for that particular motorcycle. I've ridden lowered bikes that were done with lowering links or by raising the forks up in the triple tree, and I personally didn't like it. Having the bike professionally lowered with aftermarket forks and shocks kept the rake and trail of the original ergonomics and the handling was still great. That said, I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to lower a bike again unless I couldn't get a single foot down.

[leed]

You get used to it, really. I'm 5'7" but I have a 27" inseam, and thus a longer torso. You'd be surprised how much extra thickness there is in your regular athletic shoe, and even more in your boots. I can flat foot with regular shoes and my riding boots, and am no where close with flip flops. Having been said, you won't be doing much riding with flip-flops (I hope!). Don't get discouraged though, seriously. If I park forward downhill, I have to get off and roll my bike back, and I know several others who have to do the same. But the tall people usually just find it humorous, and won't poke at you for it.

I raised my forks (dropped the front end) an inch, and noticed absolutely no difference.

[Shifter92]

Late Response here...and I am sure you have figured it out now. But in case this can help another rider. I am exactly 5ft with a 26in inseam. Yeah it really sucks! I was able to shave the seat down enough to tip toe both feet and firmly place one foot. Good enough for me at this point. Shaving the seat was easy.
1. Take off seat
2. Use pliers and pull out staples holding seat upholstery onto plastic.
3. Separate the foam from the plastic bottom.
4. Now you shave down the foam to whatever depth you would like. I have seen people shave the top or the bottom (under seat) foam. I shaved the bottom because I didnt want to worry about mis shaping my seat. I cut about 3 inches out of the middle section and left the side untouched.
5. TEST Height. Recut if needed
6. Glue foam back onto plastic piece with super glue.
7. Re staple upholstery back onto seat. I did not have a industrial stapler available so I used Krazy Glue and I have had zero problems. Even with extreme weather.
8. Ride away.

This has worked well for me, at least for the first season of riding. Now that winter is approaching I will use the off season to install lowering links for another 1in. This way I will be able to mostly flat 2 feet.

[rasta]

Well...can't blame you for not using the search feature

[ThrottleGirl]

[QUOTE=adouglas;378380]The whole "all you need to do is get a toe down" thing almost always comes from those who have the luxury of being tall. I say to them, go get a three-inch-thick phone book, tape it to your seat, and try moving your bike around while sitting on it. Try backing it up a mild incline. Try pulling up next to a patch of gravel and see how secure your footing is when you lean the bike over to reach the ground. Go ahead. We'll wait.

I did a snort-laugh at this, thanks for a great comment for all of us shorter riders . I am 5'2 but am an experienced rider so have incredible frustrations that most of the motorcycles that match my skill do not match my body at all. Here is a picture of me on my old bike for example. It becomes brutal after a day of picking up/putting down/backing up/cramping up from being in uncomfortable positions without much leverage. I can't say enough about a good quality boot that adds an inch or two of height. I just got the Daytona Lady Star GTX boots which adds about 2" to your height, but flat like a platform so you don't feel like you're wearing high heels. They're extremely well made, so tend to be expensive, but if you're watching your pennies you can pick up a gently used pair off eBay.

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/...star-gtx-boots

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Mountain Dew

You don't really need to touch both feet on the ground. If you can put one foot flat on the ground (while leaning it over slightly) you'll be fine.

Agreed. Try straddling a motocross bike.

Bill