shifting

[robertkh100]

Hey i'm a new rider and the shifting is throwing me off a bit. Upshifting is easy and I can do it really quick, but downshifting is what gives me problems. I just have a couple of questions.

1. do i need to downshift If I am slowing down but not coming to a stop? When I do do this, it is never smooth and the engine screams sometimes.

2. is it normal that I have a hard time riding with my rpms lower than 7-8k?

3. can i slow down without downshifting and than speed up in the same gear?

I also feel like it isnt smooth when I ride at 25mph or anything less than 30-35. I feel like the engine is being dragged.

any other advice you guys have would be great.

[robertkh100]

sorry guys, i did a search for shifting and couldn't find anything but now I just saw some related threads.

[Reyno2ac]

When downshifting make sure you're revving the engine up the match the rpms to the gear you're shifting into, this will get rid of the lurching/screaming.

No, you don't always have to downshift just because you are going to slow down then speed up.

If the engine is really screaming than you may not have needed to downshift.

If it's dragging at less than 35 mph you may need to cruise in a lower gear.

[robertkh100]

How do i know what the rpms are for the gear im in and idk what you mean by rev the engine

Edit: i obviously know what you mean by rev the engine but i just dont know when i should do it

[jman511115]

Originally Posted by robertkh100

How do i know what the rpms are for the gear im in and idk what you mean by rev the engine

Edit: i obviously know what you mean by rev the engine but i just dont know when i should do it

If you're in 5th gear at 4000 RPM and you want to downshift to 4th to pass someone or accelerate, you'd clutch in, downshift with your foot, rev, then let the clutch out. You'll have to get the feel of how much to rev the engine, but the idea is to get the engine RPM to match whatever the transmission speed will be in the lower gear.

[PsHYk]

if youre just slowing down you dont need to downshift just stay in 6th or 5th or whatever gear you are in when you get to the slow speed you are now targeting...
so lets say you go from a 55mph and youre in 6th gear to 35mph...
slow down to 35 and if you feel like its slow when you hit the throttle and its not picking up THEN downshift to 5th or 4th...
guess that doesnt make sense maybe but to me it did...
any one is welcome to call me retarded just that just makes sense to me
and do that sometimes...

[bkh2]

The numbers I'm using are probably way off, but you know... Suppose you're traveling at 30 mph in 4th gear @ 7000 RPM. Now suppose you were doing that same speed but in 3rd gear. The RPM you would need to maintain 30 mph would be higher in third than it would be in fourth, say 8000 RPM. That means that if you're traveling at 30 mph in 4th and you want to shift down to 3rd, you need to:

1. Pull in your clutch
2. Downshift
3. Give it enough gas to get 8000 RPM
4. Let out the clutch

That's the case if you want to maintain speed. Now suppose you want to slow down. You'd do the exact same procedure except that instead of constantly giving it gas, you 'blip' the throttle. That is, you give it a quick twist just to get the engine up to 8000 RPM so that when you let the clutch go after you've downshifted, your engine speed is matched with the speed that your actual tire is spinning. When you let the clutch out, there isn't a huge mismatch in speed, allowing for a smoother transition (no shaking).

If your riding doesn't seem smooth at lower speeds, it usually means you should be using a lower gear. Don't be afraid to use more RPM's.

Each gear is generally meant for a certain range of speeds. Suppose you're doing 70 mph in 6th gear and you want to slow down to 65 mph, then you probably don't need to shift down. But suppose you want to slow down from 70 mph to 25 mph. In that case, you'd probably want to shift down, otherwise the bike will seem very bogged if you tried to accelerate. If you operate a certain gear at a speed outside the range of speed for which is was intended, it'll either be bogged or it'll scream.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by robertkh100

How do i know what the rpms are for the gear im in and idk what you mean by rev the engine

Edit: i obviously know what you mean by rev the engine but i just dont know when i should do it

Please Robert, read this thread:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...t=downshifting

[xSean13]

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

btw, i love the sound of his bike, especially when he blips

[alex.s]

you guys are overwhelming him with advanced technique without really asking any basic questions.

start simple.

when you say you have a hard time riding with the revs over 8k, what do you mean? what is hard? is it hard to keep the throttle smooth when going over bumps? or when making steering changes? are you putting weight on your arms? how quickly are you releasing the clutch when you shift to a lower gear? there should be no weight at all on your arms. you should be supporting your upper body entirely with your legs/stomach/back

the power range for the 250 engine, stock, is about 5K to about 10K. so if your revs are lower than 5k, shift to a lower gear, if they are too high, shift to a higher gear.

dont worry about trying to rev match right now. just get comfortable with the bike. when you start going faster you can worry about advanced techniques to make it smoother. but for now just be smoother on letting the clutch out.

[PsHYk]

that shifting is out of hand on those videos...

[robertkh100]

Originally Posted by xSean13

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

btw, i love the sound of his bike, especially when he blips

i dont really understand whats going on the videos man sorry, but thanks for trying to help.

Originally Posted by alex.s

you guys are overwhelming him with advanced technique without really asking any basic questions.

start simple.

when you say you have a hard time riding with the revs over 8k, what do you mean? what is hard? is it hard to keep the throttle smooth when going over bumps? or when making steering changes? are you putting weight on your arms? how quickly are you releasing the clutch when you shift to a lower gear? there should be no weight at all on your arms. you should be supporting your upper body entirely with your legs/stomach/back

the power range for the 250 engine, stock, is about 5K to about 10K. so if your revs are lower than 5k, shift to a lower gear, if they are too high, shift to a higher gear.

dont worry about trying to rev match right now. just get comfortable with the bike. when you start going faster you can worry about advanced techniques to make it smoother. but for now just be smoother on letting the clutch out.

i meant the engine seems too loud or as if it's dragging when I ride with my rpms lower than about 7k. i keep my hands loose on the bars, i know that. bumps usually arent a problem since i dont put weight on the bars. i released the clutch pretty quickly when i began, but i recently started taking it easy.

thanks for helping out man, i guess what i dont understand is the concept of matching revs and engine speed with road speed.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by alex.s

you guys are overwhelming him with advanced technique without really asking any basic questions.

start simple.

Agreed. I rode for nearly a year before learning how to blip the throttle when downshifting. Couldn't have said it better than Alex. Start simple....a phrase that should be part of my signature.

Originally Posted by robertkh100

1. do i need to downshift If I am slowing down but not coming to a stop? When I do do this, it is never smooth and the engine screams sometimes.

2. is it normal that I have a hard time riding with my rpms lower than 7-8k?

3. can i slow down without downshifting and than speed up in the same gear?

I also feel like it isnt smooth when I ride at 25mph or anything less than 30-35. I feel like the engine is being dragged.

any other advice you guys have would be great.

I remember when I started out, I hated to hear the engine scream. We're taught on manual tranny cars where redlining is typically a bad thing. Throw that thought out the window because our Ninjas are happy to be way up in the RPMs, but the sweetest spot is around 10k. Our bikes can ride anywhere in the rpm range, but below 5k, it will be very slow to accelerate. Though you do not have to downshift if you are simply slowing down and not stopping (and yes, you can slow down and speed up in one gear, to answer your question), I typically downshift around 5k because much lower than that and it takes too long to get back up to speed. I used to always fear not downshifting in time and having the bike choke on me and stop abruptly. However, you can actually keep the bike in gear as you are slowing down until it gets to like 1k (crawling), and it won't choke down on you. Hell, our bikes will actually keep puttering along with no input whatsoever if you are very slow with the clutch release. That is how I learned to U-turn. Starting from a stopped position, try a paintfullyslow release of the clutch and the bike will putter along on its own with no gas (as long as you're not going uphill). Play with this in a parking lot a bit. Experiment with the friction zone on your bike. If you are stopped and you ever-so-slowly release the clutch, when it gets to the friction zone, you'll feel the bike start to very slowly move a little, even without giving throttle. Continue your slow clutch release and ride the puttering bike around a bit.
Which gear are you in when you ride 25-30mph and not feeling smooth? Second gear is good for those speeds.
Hope this morning ramble answered some of your questions. I had very little experience with a manual tranny prior to learning how to ride my Ninja, and shifting was the most difficult part for me to really grasp, so let me know if you have other questions. There's no such thing as a stupid one (though if there is, trust me, I have asked it! )

[robertkh100]

Originally Posted by ally99

Agreed. I rode for nearly a year before learning how to blip the throttle when downshifting. Couldn't have said it better than Alex. Start simple....a phrase that should be part of my signature.





I remember when I started out, I hated to hear the engine scream. We're taught on manual tranny cars where redlining is typically a bad thing. Throw that thought out the window because our Ninjas are happy to be way up in the RPMs, but the sweetest spot is around 10k. Our bikes can ride anywhere in the rpm range, but below 5k, it will be very slow to accelerate. Though you do not have to downshift if you are simply slowing down and not stopping (and yes, you can slow down and speed up in one gear, to answer your question), I typically downshift around 5k because much lower than that and it takes too long to get back up to speed. I used to always fear not downshifting in time and having the bike choke on me and stop abruptly. However, you can actually keep the bike in gear as you are slowing down until it gets to like 1k (crawling), and it won't choke down on you. Hell, our bikes will actually keep puttering along with no input whatsoever if you are very slow with the clutch release. That is how I learned to U-turn. Starting from a stopped position, try a paintfullyslow release of the clutch and the bike will putter along on its own with no gas (as long as you're not going uphill). Play with this in a parking lot a bit. Experiment with the friction zone on your bike. If you are stopped and you ever-so-slowly release the clutch, when it gets to the friction zone, you'll feel the bike start to very slowly move a little, even without giving throttle. Continue your slow clutch release and ride the puttering bike around a bit.
Which gear are you in when you ride 25-30mph and not feeling smooth? Second gear is good for those speeds.
Hope this morning ramble answered some of your questions. I had very little experience with a manual tranny prior to learning how to ride my Ninja, and shifting was the most difficult part for me to really grasp, so let me know if you have other questions. There's no such thing as a stupid one (though if there is, trust me, I have asked it! )

Well, the reason why it's so hard for me is because I have never drove a manual car and I had only drove a automatic car for 2 weeks before I got my motorcycle, i'm only 15 1/2. I did the MSF couse and i'm riding with a permit. I was trying to say it doesn't feel right when i'm riding at about 25mph and I use second gear. I guess i'm just not letting the bike do its thing. Thanks for the advice!