Clutch Basket

[fast1075]

After only 6,500 miles, the clutch basket is getting loose enough to irritate me with the noise and vibration at idle (unless I keep the clutch pulled in).

Question: Am I stuck with the rubber damper type basket, or do I have any alternatives? I know the "New Gen" uses springs instead of the rubbers.

Will the "New Gen" basket fit a "Pre Gen"?

Are the new OEM baskets improved in any way over the stock 2006 one in my bike.

The old KZ650-750 used the basic same style of clutch basket, and they got loose too, but being 4 cylinder they were not as noisy. The rubber gets hard and fails.

I found one reference in a forum where an enterprising owner/machinist had new rubbers cut by water-jet, made new rivets and rebuilt his.

One of my old contacts in the Pro Dragracing world can custom rebuild the stock basket, but that would be several times the cost of a new stocker.

Suggestions?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by fast1075

...........Suggestions?

Slightly press the clutch lever while idling.

[alex.s]

i have read about someone replacing the rubber dampers with new hand cut rubbers. i forget where i saw it. it didn't look hard

[alex.s]

here, http://forums.ninja250.org/posting.p...&t=86485&tro=1

[fast1075]

Thanks Alex. The author of that thread did what most people don't, provide real and usable info like part numbers and complete descriptions.

[alex.s]

yw. post updates on your progress. i'm morbidly curious to see your clutch basket

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by fast1075

Thanks Alex. The author of that thread did what most people don't, provide real and usable info like part numbers and complete descriptions.

I wouldn't do the small radial drills to the cushions; I have always believed that those were a flaw of the original design that led to early failure.
They don't do much more than unnecessarily weaken the cushions (.... yes, I know better than the Japanese engineer that designed those ).

I was not joking in my previous post.
A light pressure hurts nothing and eliminates or reduces the annoying noise.

[fast1075]

I intend to buy an E-bay basket to work with, and swap it in if it goes well.

When I was drag racing, I used a "slider" clutch from a company called MTC Engineering. They converted the stock basket to a purely centrifugal design.

They used a special cutter to cut the stock rivet heads down instead of drilling them out. When they reassembled the unit, they held everything together in a jig and TIG welded the rivets to the backing plate. The clutch held up to 200+ HP without failure.

[fast1075]

Just scored a complete clutch assembly from E-bay for $16.00 from a 2005 model. Should be here in a few days. Will update.

For those watching this, the part number for the silicone material has changed since the original poster did the posting.

The new part number for the tubing is 5546T56. The cost for a 6" piece is $5.37 plus freight.

[fast1075]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I wouldn't do the small radial drills to the cushions; I have always believed that those were a flaw of the original design that led to early failure.
They don't do much more than unnecessarily weaken the cushions (.... yes, I know better than the Japanese engineer that designed those ).

I was not joking in my previous post.
A light pressure hurts nothing and eliminates or reduces the annoying noise.

Mine makes enough noise to be FELT through the seat at stops. It stops completely when I pull the clutch or load it a bit. I am very OCD about my mechanicals.

[n4mwd]

The newgen uses replaceable springs and not rubber. I would be curious what is involved in getting one to fit a pregen.

[fast1075]

Got the piece of silicone tubing today on UPS! WOW! what quick shipping. McMaster Carr ROCKS!

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The newgen uses replaceable springs and not rubber. I would be curious what is involved in getting one to fit a pregen.

i have a spare newgen clutch and trans if you want to send me a pregen engine.

[az3200]

What if it rattles even when idling while the clutch is pulled all the way in in 1st gear?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i have a spare newgen clutch and trans if you want to send me a pregen engine.

I'll email it to you. But seriously, didn't you used to have a pregen engine to try it on?

Originally Posted by az3200

What if it rattles even when idling while the clutch is pulled all the way in in 1st gear?

The pregen clutch rattles pretty much all the time that it isn't under load. The Ninjette doesn't have many "oops" in its design, but using rubber dampers on the clutch basket is one of them.

The rubber dampers can be replaced as in the link above, but I think you need a machine shop to do it. It looks pretty difficult to me.

[alex.s]

3 new gen motors. no pregens.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

3 new gen motors. no pregens.

How about measuring it, counting teeth, etc.?

[alex.s]

i can do that, sure. what all do you want measured? just the gear that hooks up to the output shaft? i'll give you some photos and you can count the teeth.

[n4mwd]

Maybe like the shaft diameter and the height of the basket when laid flat on a table. Also the thickness of the gears. And the diameter of the gears. I should be able to get a better idea with that info. And yes, some good clear photos to count the teeth. That would help for sure.

[az3200]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The pregen clutch rattles pretty much all the time that it isn't under load. The Ninjette doesn't have many "oops" in its design, but using rubber dampers on the clutch basket is one of them.

The rubber dampers can be replaced as in the link above, but I think you need a machine shop to do it. It looks pretty difficult to me.

So as long as I don't mind the rattling it's no big deal?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by az3200

So as long as I don't mind the rattling it's no big deal?

Mines been rattling for 30,000 miles so I don't think it hurts anything much.

[Daks]

Reading this, I'm assuming it's the same issue my bike is having. Just got back from a 2 week vacation and noticed the clutch knocking something fierce in neutral until I pulled in the lever. Sometimes it would slip into neutral after shifting up to 2 as well, though that could be rider error with new boots.
It almost seemed like enough to keep it from starting right, but he could just be grumpy after not being touched for 2 weeks

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Daks

..........Just got back from a 2 week vacation and noticed the clutch knocking something fierce in neutral until I pulled in the lever...........but he could just be grumpy after not being touched for 2 weeks

That is the way our bikes tell us that they were built to roll every day.

[fast1075]

My $16.00 used clutch just came in. There is no slop in the gear on it, so I will install it and see how it goes. And the fiber discs are within spec and look good. I will use a couple of the steels to build a hub tool. Just need to go pick up a cover gasket. Hopefully the local Kawi shop has one in stock.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by fast1075

My $16.00 used clutch just came in. There is no slop in the gear on it, so I will install it and see how it goes. And the fiber discs are within spec and look good. I will use a couple of the steels to build a hub tool. Just need to go pick up a cover gasket. Hopefully the local Kawi shop has one in stock.

A) the clutch tool from cycle gear costs $12 and works fairly well.
B) use an impact wrench to take the clutch hub nut off, it will make a nearly impossible job, a piece of cake. literally takes 5 seconds with the clutch tool and impact wrench.
C) shops never carry the 250 gasket. if you still have most the gasket left you can patch it up with gasketmaker but if its turned to dust it will end up leaking with just gasketmaker. save a trip and order the gasket... or i guess you could call first.. but who the hell uses a telephone these days

[n4mwd]

or you could just print one out by going to my blog. You'll need to use gasket paper and a wide printer.

[fast1075]

I finally found time to do something with the clutch. Remarkably easy job. The old clutch basket, as I suspected had a ton of play in it, but remarkably no rubber pieces in the oil strainer. I put the used basket I bought on E-bay in it, and also the inner since it had no grooves from the steels.

The strainer had the usual bits of case sealant since it had never been cleaned, no metal or rubber, or anything scary.

Put it back together with new gaskets, oil filter, and some fresh Amsoil 10-40.

The "raging gremlins with tiny banging hammers" sound is gone at idle.

I will in the future take the old basket apart, and try to rebuild it. I will post pics when I do. I came up with a unique tool to tighten/loosen the hub nut since I didn't bother to order a hub tool.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

or you could just print one out by going to my blog. You'll need to use gasket paper and a wide printer.

i imagine this is pregen? do you know how different the newgen is? do you have one for newgen? i'll give you a dollar to make a newgen one.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i imagine this is pregen? do you know how different the newgen is? do you have one for newgen? i'll give you a dollar to make a newgen one.

No problem. Send me a dollar and a newgen engine and I'd be happy to.

[mr2peak]

Anyone ever find out if the pregen will fit the newgen clutch assembly?

[Ginganinja]

Originally Posted by fast1075

I will in the future take the old basket apart, and try to rebuild it. I will post pics when I do. I came up with a unique tool to tighten/loosen the hub nut since I didn't bother to order a hub tool.

@fast1075 Interested in what your hub tool looks like. Throw up a pic if you got one!

[mr2peak]

Here's a link to making a clutch tool

http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic.php?t=83912

[n4mwd]

Here is the one that I made. It requires sacrificing a clutch disk, but since I had a spare set, I went ahead and made the mods to it to make it hold the clutch basket in place while I turned the big nut.

The four tabs are made from a 1" wide steel strip and bent at a 90 and then riveted to the disk so that it can lock the two clutch basket sections together. Then I use a flat screwdriver between the gears to lock the basket so I can turn the nut.

The tool on ninja250.org used a string to hold the outer basket, but I like my way because it is more durable.

[CZroe]

Still curious about what can swap.

The clutch covers have the same bolt pattern, IIRC.