Help with the FRICTION ZONE

tjb0012 · April 14th, 2010, 07:00 PM

Hey guys,

I would like to know the proper way to use the "friction zone". The beginning is very straight forward... start the bike, pull clutch in, shift to first gear. Now, here is where I am a tad fuzzy..

Once the bike is in first gear. Do I slowly let out the clutch until the bike starts to move and then give it a little gas while it is already moving forward? Or do I give it a little gas before the clutch hits the friction zone?

Such a newbie question but help would be appreciated! Thanks

LazinCajun · April 14th, 2010, 07:15 PM

Personally, I pretty much do both at the same time It's fine to give a little gas before you let out the clutch -- doing so will make it a little less likely that you stall the bike. That's not to say you should race the engine with the clutch in for day to day riding.

Also, have you taken the MSF course? If not, it's extremely highly recommended. Extremely.

tjb0012 · April 14th, 2010, 07:17 PM

I am taking a course. I was just really curious so i figured it wouldn't hurt to ask

caliente103 · April 14th, 2010, 07:22 PM

I use both at the same time

Cedilla · April 14th, 2010, 07:57 PM

There really is no right way to do it, however there are plenty of wrong ways to do it. Getting comfortable with a manual trans is just something you have to get a feel of after some miles.

Generally when I'm taking off on the ninja, I rev it to about 4k rpm while letting the clutch out to the friction zone, then I hold it in the friction zone for a couple of seconds while the bike starts moving, then I let it out all the way. Of course thats not going to work in every situation. You will get the hang of it, but for now just try to be careful, and not drop your new machine.

Jatan · April 14th, 2010, 08:10 PM

Give it a lil gas so it doesnt stall

OldGuy · April 14th, 2010, 08:10 PM

TJ - If you have driven a manual transmission car the principles are all the same. The big difference is that our clutches are in an oil bath and they don't overheat when "slipped" (that condition between when the clutch is fully engaged or disengaged). As Chris and Trey suggest you can increase the RPMs and then let the clutch out slowly until the bike is moving and then let it out fully.

Best advice is go to a parking lot and practice. The goal is to learn how to ease in a little clutch with the bike at idle and increase the RPMs and let out more clutch at the same time. Most MSF course will spend a lot of time on this exercise at the very beginning of the course. If you have someplace with a little incline you can aim the bike "up hill" and with both feet on the ground just practice using the clutch at idle to move the bike forward a little then let it roll back and do it again until you get used to the feel and sound.

Don't worry it will come to you.

Samer · April 14th, 2010, 09:40 PM

If you have driven a manual car, that would help, at least with the principles. Even though I took the MSF & and I had been driving manual cars for 10+ years, I still stalled the Ninja a couple of times the first day I got it. Every manual transmission vehicle will have a slightly different feel.

It helps to understand the physics. The goal is to smoothly engage the engine with the wheel. In theory you could probably do it with no gas if you let out the clutch very gently. However, a little bit of gas is the norm and it will help you to avoid stalling. If you're starting out on a downhill slope, you won't need any gas at all, just let out the clutch. If you're starting out uphill, then you definitely need gas.

On the other extreme, with a powerful bike, gunning the throttle and releasing the clutch suddenly will stand the bike right up and throw you off the bike. You can see many examples on youtube. It's funny to watch as long as it isn't your bike

karlosdajackal · April 15th, 2010, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjb0012

Hey guys,

I would like to know the proper way to use the "friction zone". The beginning is very straight forward... start the bike, pull clutch in, shift to first gear. Now, here is where I am a tad fuzzy..

Once the bike is in first gear. Do I slowly let out the clutch until the bike starts to move and then give it a little gas while it is already moving forward? Or do I give it a little gas before the clutch hits the friction zone?

Such a newbie question but help would be appreciated! Thanks

You need some gas.
Idle at 1,300 rpm the bike has very little power to get going. You can get the bike moving with no gas, it is possible, but it will pick up to about 3 mph in the space of about 15 seconds and not be very stable then when you give it gas it will be a bit lumpy and rough. (I'll be uploading a vid to youtube in about 12 hours where I show this by coincidence)

So now we know we need some gas we can move onto how to use that gas. You could just hold say a constant 2,500rpm and slip out the clutch slowly but still much faster than you could have gotten away with at 1,300 rpm and you may find the bike picks up to a nice stable 10mph then give it gas, its going to be much better but might still be a bit jumpy/lumpy but probably more than acceptable for a first attempt.

What you will find people actually do and what is the smoothest is they give it some gas, let out the clutch and add a little gas as the clutch starts to bite so the rpm doesn't dip to much as you let the gas out. So for example as a light goes green you may start with 2,000 rpm, then start releasing the clutch and as it starts to bite, give it some more gas and by the time the clutch is fully out you are already at 3,500 rpm. If you watch some of my other vids (vike or car) and listen to the rpm from standing starts you will hear that sequence of events

1. green light
2. rpm comes up a little
3. bike starts to accelerate but rpm's sound constant
4. bike starts to accelerate more rpm's rise slowly
5. clutch fully out rpm's rise at a faster rate

All of that happens within a very short space of time and that's just basic start's.

When you have all that down to a fine art, you can hold the bike on the rear brake on an incline, and as you wish to get moving, slip the clutch out so it takes over holding the bike from rolling backwards, and at the same time start releasing rear brake (amount of power coming through clutch is doing that job now), so the bike starts uphill without ever rolling backwards. Same as you'd use a handbrake on a manual transmission car to do a hill start.

Good luck.

demp · April 15th, 2010, 04:18 AM

I give it gas at about the same time I begin to release the clutch, it's just something to get used to

g21-30 · April 15th, 2010, 04:38 AM

Check this video out:

http://www.ridelikeapro.com/dvds/lea...e-the-easy-way

You might want to purchase the video, along with Ride Like a Pro V. It's money well spent!

Still take the MSF class.

tjb0012 · April 15th, 2010, 05:07 AM

Great info guys! Thanks a lot. I'll keep you all posted on my riding experiences.

April 14th, 2010, 07:00 PM	#1
tjb0012 ninjette.org member Name: T.J. Location: Massachusetts Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 SE Ninja250r Posts: 51	Help with the FRICTION ZONE Hey guys, I would like to know the proper way to use the "friction zone". The beginning is very straight forward... start the bike, pull clutch in, shift to first gear. Now, here is where I am a tad fuzzy.. Once the bike is in first gear. Do I slowly let out the clutch until the bike starts to move and then give it a little gas while it is already moving forward? Or do I give it a little gas before the clutch hits the friction zone? Such a newbie question but help would be appreciated! Thanks

April 14th, 2010, 07:57 PM	#5
Cedilla ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Huntsville, AL Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 755	There really is no right way to do it, however there are plenty of wrong ways to do it. Getting comfortable with a manual trans is just something you have to get a feel of after some miles. Generally when I'm taking off on the ninja, I rev it to about 4k rpm while letting the clutch out to the friction zone, then I hold it in the friction zone for a couple of seconds while the bike starts moving, then I let it out all the way. Of course thats not going to work in every situation. You will get the hang of it, but for now just try to be careful, and not drop your new machine. __________________________________________________ The Ninjette is not a disposable bike. You are not ever supposed to get rid of it. It is like a [friendly] herpes virus.... once you got it, you get keep it forever. Originally posted by-Headshrink

April 14th, 2010, 08:10 PM	#6
Jatan ... Name: Jatan Location: Chicago, IL Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250/300 (some day) Posts: 40	Give it a lil gas so it doesnt stall __________________________________________________ MSF Range Aide Ninja 250/300 (some day)

April 14th, 2010, 08:10 PM	#7
OldGuy Live Life Name: Don Location: Lincoln, NE Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Green SE Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.	TJ - If you have driven a manual transmission car the principles are all the same. The big difference is that our clutches are in an oil bath and they don't overheat when "slipped" (that condition between when the clutch is fully engaged or disengaged). As Chris and Trey suggest you can increase the RPMs and then let the clutch out slowly until the bike is moving and then let it out fully. Best advice is go to a parking lot and practice. The goal is to learn how to ease in a little clutch with the bike at idle and increase the RPMs and let out more clutch at the same time. Most MSF course will spend a lot of time on this exercise at the very beginning of the course. If you have someplace with a little incline you can aim the bike "up hill" and with both feet on the ground just practice using the clutch at idle to move the bike forward a little then let it roll back and do it again until you get used to the feel and sound. Don't worry it will come to you. __________________________________________________ - ATGATT - Scorpion EX700 Hi-Vis Helmet, First Gear MeshTek 3.0 Jacket, TourMaster Transition 2 Jacket and Flex Pants, Sidi Doha boots

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April 14th, 2010, 07:15 PM	#2
LazinCajun ninjette.org guru Name: Anon Location: Atlanta, GA Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 (Blue!) Posts: 488	Personally, I pretty much do both at the same time It's fine to give a little gas before you let out the clutch -- doing so will make it a little less likely that you stall the bike. That's not to say you should race the engine with the clutch in for day to day riding. Also, have you taken the MSF course? If not, it's extremely highly recommended. Extremely.

April 14th, 2010, 07:17 PM	#3
tjb0012 ninjette.org member Name: T.J. Location: Massachusetts Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 SE Ninja250r Posts: 51	I am taking a course. I was just really curious so i figured it wouldn't hurt to ask

April 14th, 2010, 07:22 PM	#4
caliente103 ninjette.org member Name: HECTOR Location: Bronx NY Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): Red 08 250r Posts: 218	I use both at the same time

April 14th, 2010, 09:40 PM	#8
Samer ninjette.org guru Name: Samer Location: Jupiter, Florida Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE Posts: 376	If you have driven a manual car, that would help, at least with the principles. Even though I took the MSF & and I had been driving manual cars for 10+ years, I still stalled the Ninja a couple of times the first day I got it. Every manual transmission vehicle will have a slightly different feel. It helps to understand the physics. The goal is to smoothly engage the engine with the wheel. In theory you could probably do it with no gas if you let out the clutch very gently. However, a little bit of gas is the norm and it will help you to avoid stalling. If you're starting out on a downhill slope, you won't need any gas at all, just let out the clutch. If you're starting out uphill, then you definitely need gas. On the other extreme, with a powerful bike, gunning the throttle and releasing the clutch suddenly will stand the bike right up and throw you off the bike. You can see many examples on youtube. It's funny to watch as long as it isn't your bike

April 15th, 2010, 04:18 AM	#10
demp ninjette.org sage Name: Matthew Location: Toronto Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 V-Star 950 Tourer (Deep Blue) Posts: 570	I give it gas at about the same time I begin to release the clutch, it's just something to get used to

April 15th, 2010, 04:38 AM	#11
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	Check this video out: http://www.ridelikeapro.com/dvds/lea...e-the-easy-way You might want to purchase the video, along with Ride Like a Pro V. It's money well spent! Still take the MSF class.

April 15th, 2010, 05:07 AM	#12
tjb0012 ninjette.org member Name: T.J. Location: Massachusetts Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 SE Ninja250r Posts: 51	Great info guys! Thanks a lot. I'll keep you all posted on my riding experiences.