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Old October 10th, 2009, 09:57 AM   #1
RedNinja09
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Winterizing the Bike. Full Tank of Gas Or Empty ?

Hey all,

This is my first year with my wonderful Ninja. The weather here sucks in the Chicagoland area and I am finally starting to accept that I am going to have to pack up the bike for the winter. I am going to call my bike mechanic friend to ask what to do. But... I thought I would ask here first. Should I gas her up while it is nicer to a full tank or run it empty ? I know I have to put stable in it but I am just not sure if I should fill her up or not...

Thanks.

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Old October 10th, 2009, 10:11 AM   #2
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Owner's manual says drain the tank and run the bike until it dies.

Conventional wisdom around here says full to the brim, and drain the carbs manually.

Take your pick.

The logic behind keeping it full is that an empty tank can get condensation inside it and start to rust. I wonder, though... if you leave the cap open and cover the opening so nothing can fall in, then the tank should stay bone-dry, right?

Some also advocate draining the tank to remove the stabilized fuel and re-filling with fresh gas in the spring.

Also change your oil now, then drain that oil and put fresh in next spring.

Regarding Sta-Bil... there are two kinds. The pink stuff that you often find doesn't work well with gas that has ethanol in it. Get the Marine Formula instead. It's blue-green.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 10:34 AM   #3
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My 2006 manual says. "Remove and empty tank, pour 1/2 pint motor oil in tank and roll around to coat inner surfaces thoroughly , and pour out excess.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 10:39 AM   #4
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Hmmmm, well I will have to see what the boys are Kawasaki say. I am NOT ready to do anything yet. I am hoping for at least ONE more decent day to ride. We shall see.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 10:52 AM   #5
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tank full.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 12:06 PM   #6
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fullllll
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Old October 10th, 2009, 04:10 PM   #7
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Either will work, but with the tank full you will, of course, need Sta-Bil or something similar.

If you empty it and coat the inside with oil, remember that the oil will eventually settle back down in the bottom of the tank... I might be tempted to periodically check on it, but at least this way there's no chance of having gas that gums up.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 05:31 PM   #8
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Tank full, do not use Sta-bil. Use Seafoam. It works MUCH MUCH better. Pour half a can in to the gas tank, fill tank up and let bike run for 10 - 15 minutes. Get it in the carbs and such. Park the bike where you plan on storing it and fill the tank to the very brim.

Any air inside the tank can carry humidity and cause surface rust inside your tank. Surface rust is very very bad for carbs. I had the issue with my CBR250 this year. A tiny piece of rust clogged one of my pilot jets and cause the bike to run like crap.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 06:35 PM   #9
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of course another alternative is to store your bike empty in a nitrogen atmosphere. I've considered this. It's not very practical, but it'd be cool.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 07:17 PM   #10
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+1 for Seafoam and fill the tank. The other option would include moving a little south
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Old October 10th, 2009, 08:11 PM   #11
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Get sta-bil and follow the directions.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 08:13 PM   #12
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Full tank with Sta-Bil because I still ride in the winter. I just don't let the tank level drop very far and NEVER use the ethanol blend since it likes to absorb water.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 11:29 PM   #13
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Full tank with Sta-Bil because I still ride in the winter. I just don't let the tank level drop very far and NEVER use the ethanol blend since it likes to absorb water.
I thought all gas stations were required to carry E10 blend in the US. Where can you buy gasoline sans Ethanol? Racing gas?
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Old October 11th, 2009, 12:52 AM   #14
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Refining companies in the US are required by law to produce gasoline with a minimum percentage of ethanol across their entire production. It varies by company, but for most of the majors the minimum this past year was around 6%. That minimum does go up a smidge every year, but hasn't gone up much the past year or two. It's perfectly acceptable for companies to produce a whole pile of gasoline with 0% ethanol in it, as long as on average, their entire production of gasoline over the year, meets that particular minimum percentage for the company. On the high end, many states cap the amount of ethanol to be put in to standard gasoline at 10%, as more than 10% has the potential to cause performance and reliability issues in some vehicles that aren't designed for higher levels of ethanol in the fuel. Some states have started to look at raising that 10% cap to allow even more ethanol in standard gas, but both vehicle manufacturers and fuel refiners aren't so crazy about the idea.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 12:59 AM   #15
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Thanks but, well, I still wonder: Where can I find E0?
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Old October 11th, 2009, 01:18 AM   #16
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Ask around. It's possible there are stations in your area whose suppliers are providing gasoline with very little or even no ethanol included. It's somewhat more likely for folks to find less ethanol nearer the coasts compared to in the center of our country, as the transportation costs for the ethanol itself are much cheaper inland.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 01:19 AM   #17
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There are E0 stations in Cali?
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Old October 11th, 2009, 01:34 AM   #18
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There must be somewhere. Most of the majors near me are including at least some amount of ethanol, judging by the warning stickers.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 01:44 AM   #19
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I'll ping Annie on this one. CA gas does require an oxygenate, and now that MTBE is banned, ethanol is a very common oxygenate, perhaps the most common. To meet the oxygenate content, CA gas would require at least 5.7% ethanol. But there is currently no mandate for minimum ethanol content specifically. More detail on CARB's site here and here. In the second link, make sure to scroll down to the middle. At the top of the page it states that there is a minimum ethanol content, but it corrects itself halfway down.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 05:35 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minuslars View Post
Either will work, but with the tank full you will, of course, need Sta-Bil or something similar.

If you empty it and coat the inside with oil, remember that the oil will eventually settle back down in the bottom of the tank... I might be tempted to periodically check on it, but at least this way there's no chance of having gas that gums up.
Two words.

Fogging oil.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 06:42 AM   #21
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I'm in the same process here as winter has decided to come early to Michigan. I guess the question that should be asked is, has anyone seen any damage from any of these methods? I've always put a full tank of gas and some type of stabilizer in the tank with all of my gas engines (lawn mowers, cars, motorcycles, etc.) and never seen any damage. It may run a little poorly first thing in the spring, but other than that, no issues. This issue seems to be predicated more on speculation rather than experience. Not ragging on anyone, just looking for actual examples. Most people will do whatever strikes thier fancy anyway.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 08:06 AM   #22
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You can also fill the tank with Stabilized gasoline for the winter - and then drain it in spring. I've found that if I dump the old gas into the much larger tank of my car, the old gas mixes with the good stuff and causes no problems.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 09:05 AM   #23
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Tank full, do not use Sta-bil. Use Seafoam. It works MUCH MUCH better. Pour half a can in to the gas tank, fill tank up and let bike run for 10 - 15 minutes. Get it in the carbs and such. Park the bike where you plan on storing it and fill the tank to the very brim.

Any air inside the tank can carry humidity and cause surface rust inside your tank. Surface rust is very very bad for carbs. I had the issue with my CBR250 this year. A tiny piece of rust clogged one of my pilot jets and cause the bike to run like crap.
where can i buy seafoam??
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Old October 11th, 2009, 01:39 PM   #24
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isn't the ninjas tank plastic? plastic don't rust last i checked
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Old October 11th, 2009, 01:57 PM   #25
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No. Magnetic tank bags do not attach to plastic very well.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 01:57 PM   #26
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isn't the ninjas tank plastic? plastic don't rust last i checked
not here. there?
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Old October 11th, 2009, 02:53 PM   #27
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where can i buy seafoam??
I hear they have a good supply of it over on the Jersey shore....



Seriously, in our area (northeast US) -- assuming the "Jersey" you're referring to isn't the one in England -- Advance Auto Parts should have it. At least the one I went to a couple of weeks ago did.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 03:12 PM   #28
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Old October 11th, 2009, 04:15 PM   #29
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I bought some Sea Foam on Thursday from an Autozone, they also had Stabil and marine Stabil on the shelf, plus some Lucas stuff and one other brand of gasoline cleaner stabilizer.

Seafoam says 1 ounce per gallon of fuel, it will run a littlle lean for that first tank unless you drain it out and fill with fresh gas.

I wonder if 1/2 ounce per gallon would work, sure would make it run better in the spring. Make sure you run the engine long enough for the stabilized fuel to get into the carb, then you can drain the bowls or not. Draining is the safest way.

If you are really concerned, you should pull the plugs and fog the cylinders then put the plugs back is to keep stuff out. Also plug the exhaust and the air cleaner. And if you are really into it, get some boat shrink wrap film and shrink the entire machine in a blue plastic cocoon.

Don't forget to put the front and back end up on stands to keep the tires from getting flat spots too.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 07:43 PM   #30
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I'll ping Annie on this one. CA gas does require an oxygenate, and now that MTBE is banned, ethanol is a very common oxygenate, perhaps the most common. To meet the oxygenate content, CA gas would require at least 5.7% ethanol. But there is currently no mandate for minimum ethanol content specifically. More detail on CARB's site here and here. In the second link, make sure to scroll down to the middle. At the top of the page it states that there is a minimum ethanol content, but it corrects itself halfway down.
In Nebraska we are still lucky and have a choice of three fuels, 87, 89 E10, and 91. Some stations have dropped the 91 and are selling E15. There is usually at $.10 drop from 91, to 87, to E10 and then about $.30 down to E15.

We still have a couple of dirt tracks in operation in the area so if you really wanted to there are a couple of stations that cater to the race cars and sell race fuel out of the drum.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 08:07 PM   #31
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There are a couple places around here that will pump 100+ leaded fuel from a drum for you, again catering to the racers that are still allowed to use the leaded fuel. More common is the 100+ unleaded race fuels which also come from the 55 gallon drums. For while there was an independent station that had 100+ on the actual pump.

Also you can go get super expensive av-gas from the airport.
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Old October 11th, 2009, 08:37 PM   #32
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I hear they have a good supply of it over on the Jersey shore....



Seriously, in our area (northeast US) -- assuming the "Jersey" you're referring to isn't the one in England -- Advance Auto Parts should have it. At least the one I went to a couple of weeks ago did.
yea im referring to new jersey, and thanks
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Old October 11th, 2009, 09:59 PM   #33
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Winterizing? Just ride it year round!
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Old October 11th, 2009, 10:06 PM   #34
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Oh Reswob... I live outside of CHICAGO. We've been getting down to a balmy 39F the last few nights. SUCKS ! Too cold for me ! I dont want to be the Michelin man driving around geared out of my mind. Doesnt sound too fun to me.
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Old October 12th, 2009, 07:22 AM   #35
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Was below 30F this morning when I left for work.
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Old October 12th, 2009, 07:35 AM   #36
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not here. there?

I remember reading it was here, but i can't find it now, guess i'll grab a magnet and go check it out later today.
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Old October 12th, 2009, 10:24 AM   #37
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Oh Reswob... I live outside of CHICAGO. We've been getting down to a balmy 39F the last few nights. SUCKS ! Too cold for me ! I dont want to be the Michelin man driving around geared out of my mind. Doesnt sound too fun to me.
Riding in the cold sucks, but even if you start the bike and let it run in your garage a little every week or so, it beats having to deal with winterizing.
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Old October 12th, 2009, 10:29 AM   #38
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Doing that can do more harm than good, because it promotes condensation.

You need to get the bike fully up to temperature, and that takes riding it 15 minutes or so.
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Old October 12th, 2009, 11:51 AM   #39
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Doing that can do more harm than good, because it promotes condensation.

You need to get the bike fully up to temperature, and that takes riding it 15 minutes or so.
I'm just curious. How? Being colder than the surrounding air with its water vapor promotes condensation, which is the opposite of what warming it up will do. As far as I know, warming it up would not promote condensation except by burning a little gas which will slightly drain the tank and draw in more water vapor-laden air. Even then, I can't imagine that it would decrease the level of gas noticably unless it were accidentally left on, say, overnight or something. Is it because the small amount of air in the tank warms and expands, thus expelling to equalize pressure and causing a vacuum when it cools, thus new air is drawn in (with water vapor)?
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Old October 12th, 2009, 12:00 PM   #40
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It's not condensation in the tank that's the issue, it's condensation in the oil. There's always a little water vapor in the crankcase as it's not a sealed system. Running a bike up to temperature puts it right into vapor form and it escapes. If a bike is started and run a number of times, but never brought up to temp (which can't really happen without a little load on it), the condensation instead causes more and more water in the oil.

Is the amount significant? Who knows. But that's where the recommendation comes from not just starting a bike without the intention of riding it. The other reason is that without running the bike at operating speeds, it is draining the battery rather than recharging it; though that last problem can be dealt with by using a battery tender or other trickle charger during storage.
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