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Old November 22nd, 2010, 03:02 PM   #1
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Snow Tires

Anyone have any experience running the Ninja in the snow? What type of tyres would be best suited for this? I'm thinking knobbies w/ studs.

I was able to find Kenda Trakmaster II in size 130/90-17 for the rear but none for front. This will be my first time doing tire shopping and changing so I'm still a noob with the numbers. But that 17 means it would fit on the 17" rim on the Ninja. I'm already running 130 stock IRC so that measurement is good. I'm not sure of the "90" part.

Also, anyone know +/- what's the allowed tire width for the front an rear tires? For example, right now I'm running IRC 110/70-17. Would a 100 or a 120 fit work out okay? What about the rear; +/- 10 would be GTG?

Also, anyone know how to work the sizing on this page: http://www.metzelermoto.com/web/cata...et_Enduro1.xml

4.60 - 17 62Q would translate to what width?

thx

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Old November 22nd, 2010, 03:41 PM   #2
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Indrish, One word: Don't. Not unless you plan on totally trashing your bike. In 1961 I was a college student who was so poor that money thought I was dead. I could not afford a car then, but had an ancient BMW 500cc motorcycle with sidecar. I was in Syracuse NY, where the average snowfall for the winter is 200 inches. I put two cement blocks into the sidecar, got some knobby tyres, and rode all winter showing up in class covered in salty slush, shivering from the cold (We did not have the clothing available today) Riding in this slop was a challenge, to say the least. I still slid and slided all over the place. I would never do it again. Knobby tyres are OK for Jeeps and such. The Ninja is just too sport oriented to be driven on slippery roads. I am sure that someone on this forum will disagree with me, which is OK--purpose of the forum is to exchange information--not to get into pissing matches. My advice to you, and it is only my perception, is to really give this very careful thought. Motorcycles are not meant to be ridden on ice and snow--The only exception being a Ural sidecar rig. Try to find an alternative-even if it means riding the bus--Your Ninja will thank you for it.
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 03:48 PM   #3
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You're going to ride in the snow??
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 06:46 PM   #4
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indrish, although I share the sentiments of the poster above, I will also say that it can be done, and that it's a ride unlike any other.... Unequaled in danger, and therefor, in thrills...

I too am shopping for a solution, having slid around for the last 5 years on occasion. Knobbies are going to help, but not nearly as much as you think. My idea is to take some knobbies, and put ice screws in-between the knobs, and somehow protect the tube from the inside of the tire being a porcupine....

What I will tell you, is that no manufacturer makes a tubeless ice tire. As you've mentioned Kenda, they make all kinds of cool tires, and quite a few "ice racing tires", which means ultra hard rubber for drilling studs/ice screws into. They are not designed for what you and I want to do... I'll post back once I've found something worth getting excited about.
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 07:12 PM   #5
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If you've ever seen motorcycle Ice-Racing then you know that the surface is carefully prepared (plowed, swept, cleaned..... although they do stop short of running a Zamboni between heats).

So the Ice-Racers aren't dealing with the highly variable conditions you'll find on any combination of neighborhood roads, arterials, and highways.

During my drive to the airport from my house here in Spokane I see untracked deep-snow conditions in the neighborhood, then "shaving-cream" slush on the arterial roads (caused when the trucks lay down the Urea fluid and then it snows some more) and then patchy hardpack on the highway.

Studded motorcycle tires would only be effective on the hardpack highway snow. And even then the cops would probably pull you over and send you to the hospital for a full psychiatric evaluation.
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 07:56 PM   #6
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I will be riding year-round, but if I ever get caught in the snow I will probably just roll onto the sidewalk and idle my way home :P . If I cop gives me any trouble I'll just be like "really, really, do you think I am enjoying this?"


Interesting anecdotes, though, on the relative lack of effectiveness of snow tires for real-world riding conditions. I had been wondering about it, and this definitely tells me that no it won't really make a difference :P.
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 08:35 PM   #7
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Oklahoma?

I've spent time in Oklahoma (Altus, Lawton, Ok-city, Tulsa) and if I were riding a motorcycle there in cold weather my main worry would be "black ice" (a.k.a. "glare ice"). North Texas and Oklahoma are notorious for black ice conditions.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 07:21 AM   #8
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We had Black Ice conditions yesterday. It rained and then got really cold quickly. Lots of sirens. The road conditions you describe bring back memories of when I lived in Bonners Ferry, Idaho. I remember "Tractionizing" tyres--where the snow tyres were run over a spiked roller, leaving little holes, which would add traction by attracting snow to them. That was 40+ years ago. I'm sure that they do things much differently now.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 08:55 AM   #9
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I used to ride my GS1100 in as much as a half-inch of snow, just on street tires. But not if the road was frozen underneath.

NAU had several students, who would ride thier dual-sports, all winter long.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 09:24 AM   #10
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If your riding in the snow you have balls that clank my friend.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 10:33 AM   #11
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If your riding in the snow you have balls that clank my friend.
Yeah, because they are likely frozen solid.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 01:41 PM   #12
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If your riding in the snow you have balls that clank my friend.
Light snow, is like fluffy rain. It contains about one-tenth of the moisture of rain, on average. So an inch of snow, isn't much moisture at all.

As long as the road isn't frozen, underneath.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 01:59 PM   #13
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To the original question: Tire sizes:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcyc.../tire-data.htm

so, you're talking about a 125ish rear - not quite wide enough. It's better to go wider in this instance...

Currently, I'm looking at the Kenda K761 Dual Sport tires....
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KURT View Post
Light snow, is like fluffy rain. It contains about one-tenth of the moisture of rain, on average.
Not to mention that it blows off your clothes and bike, it doesn't soak you through....
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KURT View Post
Light snow, is like fluffy rain. It contains about one-tenth of the moisture of rain, on average. So an inch of snow, isn't much moisture at all.

As long as the road isn't frozen, underneath.
Not sure what moisture has to do with this. An inch of sand or gravel has no moisture, but is slick as hell on the road.
I lived in Boulder,Co. for 15 years and one thing that no one has mentioned are the cars. Riding a bike in the snow while everyone is slip/sliding down the road is an accident waiting to happen. No thanks. Good luck to all of you considering it.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:44 PM   #16
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I went to school with a guy in upstate new york who rode his dirtbike year round in the snow to get to class, no matter what the conditions. Seemed crazy to me at the time. Come to think of it, it still seems crazy to me.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 07:48 PM   #17
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indrish, I just put in an order for these today, will let you know how they work (gonna need snow for that though).



a 3.50 or 3.00-17 up front. I forgot, but I trust the guy at the shop...
a 5.10-17 for the back.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 08:30 PM   #18
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Nice! What brand/model?
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Old November 26th, 2010, 10:26 PM   #19
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oh shoot, lol, I guess that would be important, huh? IRC GP1. Yea I know we all vowed never to put an IRC on our bikes again, but me thinks it will be a good thing if these stay hard as a rock! :P
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Old November 27th, 2010, 07:31 AM   #20
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Quote:
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indrish, I just put in an order for these today, will let you know how they work (gonna need snow for that though).



a 3.50 or 3.00-17 up front. I forgot, but I trust the guy at the shop...
a 5.10-17 for the back.
Spooph is going to do double-duty out at the motocross track this year.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 12:10 PM   #21
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you better believe it!
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Old November 27th, 2010, 01:00 PM   #22
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reading some reviews of these on advr, they're good double duty tires. anyone know if these at tubed or not?

spooph, post up a vid riding in the snow if you can.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 04:24 PM   #23
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yes sah! As soon as we get some snow worth making a video over, I will....

Those are tubed... One of my conditions for tires were that they be tubed.

1.) They're cheaper, and for a tire I'd be spending a max of 4 months on, I wanted cheap. No use in paying for a tire that would dry-rot over 8 or so...

2.) I wanted to stud the tires, and for that, I'd need a tube anyway, just to be safe. No reason paying more for a tubeless tire if I'm already planning to use a tube..

3.) Using tire irons are easier on tubed tires as opposed to radial/non-tubed tires.... I thought this would be a good initiation towards me mounting/balancing my own tires...
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Old November 28th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #24
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Same here. It'll be my first time with tire changes and with tubes.

This tire gets compared with the IRC GP110 and the Kenda K270. The GP1 seems to be more capable on dry pavement of the three, from what i've read.

Also, for at home wheel balancing, I picked up one of these in case anyone's interested: http://marcparnes.com/

Yet to try it out but will post a review when i do.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 04:10 PM   #25
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Got the tires on yet?
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:55 PM   #26
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lol, while you were posting, guess what I was doing?

Mounting dirt-bike tires by hand is easy! As long as you have some soapy water! Getting these suckers to pop the bead onto the rim, not so easy. USE PLENTY OF SOAP!

After a test-ride on dry asphalt I really can't wait for it to snow! As with most dirt tires, hard cornering suffers, but not by much. At least, not that I could notice with the temps hovering around 40F and sand in the roads. Meaning, I couldn't ride that hard anyway. However, noticed a massive change in handling. The front is HEAVY! And not nearly as firm as it with road-tires. Totally understandable, and should be great for up to 50mph in snow/ice... I think that's the fastest I'll be going in those conditions. Also totally cool up to 80mph (then the popo appeared and I had to slow it down) on dry pavement, so no worries there.

The 3.00 is a little small for the front, go with something a smidge bigger. I think a 3.50 would work great! The 3.00 clears the front fender without any modifications. I think the 3.50 would as well, being that it would just be wider, not taller...

That's all I got for now...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg knobbies.JPG (46.4 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg knobbies (1).JPG (53.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg knobbies (2).JPG (39.2 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg knobbies (3).JPG (37.9 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg knobbies (4).JPG (37.1 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg knobbies (5).JPG (40.1 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg knobbies (6).JPG (81.7 KB, 26 views)
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Old December 10th, 2010, 06:08 AM   #27
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Yes!

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Old December 10th, 2010, 12:06 PM   #28
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Looks nice. Did you use rimlock for the tubes?

I'm thinking of finding some tubeless knobs instead because I'm not planning on running studs.
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Old December 10th, 2010, 02:38 PM   #29
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nope, no rim locks, just straight tubes and tires over those...
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Old January 7th, 2011, 01:44 PM   #30
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My dad and my brother-in-law both have ATVs. I keep joking that I'm going to put knobby tires on my motorcycle and go riding with them. I'm still not crazy enough to do it... but that bike looks so bad-ass with those tires!
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Old January 10th, 2011, 05:18 AM   #31
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Okay, looks like you're going to go through with this. I rode my Honda Superhawk 996 year-round in Colorado.

Here's some advise:
1. Favor the rear brake
2. Ease on the brakes, clutch and throttle
3. Slooowwwww.
4. Don't lean, TURN the front handlebars in a turn (because you're going slow)
5. Stay warm: Have inner gloves under your gauntlets, such as WalMart thin knit gloves
6. Overpants!
7. Jacket liner.
8. Consider velcro'ed heated grips ($70)
9. Consider heated vest. ($200?)
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 09:36 AM   #32
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Hey Mike!
Thanks for the advice, and concern but have no worries as this will be the 5th winter I'm riding through (and the second one with this bike).

All of your points are absolutely accurate and good advice. Some of them I learned the hard way... :P The only thing I have still to do is #9.

In fact, let me change alter those points a bit for emphasis:
1.) Don't use the front brake, period.
3.) No joke, if you think you're going too fast, you are.
4.) And don't put your feet down if you have to.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 03:30 AM   #33
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I had a chance to ride over Khardungla Pass (~18000 feet) on icy roads. I had deflated the tyres to almost 15psi to get more grip, but there was no way she would ride straight. Even guys with knobblies were struggling.

Lessons learnt:
1. No speeds over 20.
2. No brakes\rapid downshifting.
3. No slowing down either
4. Reduce tyre pressure for more grip.
5. My guess - something like this http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=418653 would have helped.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 05:38 AM   #34
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Old December 14th, 2012, 06:14 AM   #35
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I used to ride my dirt bikes in the snow, when I was a kid, on the street, off road and on the frozen river. It seemed easy back then. Knobbies were slick on the snow covered roads. I have been road racing for many years now and have used rain tires for "wet races". I often wonder how they would do on a snow covered road. They have a high level of traction in the rain and dont really wear out to fast.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 10:21 AM   #36
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Go buy some short hex head sheet metal screws and get the cordless drill out with a socket. On true snow and ice the knobbies are useless without studs or screws.

Rimlocks are for low pressures, below 18 PSI. You won't need any. Keep pressures in the low 20s so the tire flexes, beware of this as speeds increase, avoid highways and over 40 MPH.

Adding screws adds weight so don't over do it, but the more you have the more traction you get. If you use them on bare pavement they will be a hinderance and you can slide out easily, they also wear quickly and pull out.

I race snow scrambles and have tried many combos of screws and studs. They all suck. You can get great traction but will have low life, longer life, low traction. Pick your poison. I'd guess a line of 3 screws across the tire every 6-8" will get you by.

A cheap DS bike would be a far better canidate for this unless your bike is fairly trashed already.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #37
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I have ridden dirtbikes in the snow a few times and even that is no easy task. And consider an MX dirtbike weights 215lbs which means it is a hell of a lot easier to put your foot down to save it when you need to, and the riding position and techniques for turning and cornering make this easier as well and cater towards loss of traction.

So with that tire you will get traction to get moving no problem in the snow, thick wet snow is sticky to so no problem their, light stuff is trickier. But traction to get moving isn't the problem, especially with the ninja250 as its power doesn't exactly hit hard which is perfect for riding in the snow. Its turning you have to worry about. You won't be able to lean the bike like normal to make curves whatsoever, you will lose the front, and go low side, and you will try to save the fall with your leg but most likely blow out your knee or something similar as ninja weights 360lbs not 215lbs like a dirtbike. I don't even need to say you will lose the rear end around turns as that is obvious and you better get used to it, and perfect counter steering and drifting.

If you go more than a few MPH in snow on a normal route you are going to crash, most likely several times, there is no (maybe) here.

Add onto all of this you have to deal with ice build up on brakes, snow pack in tires and your stopping ability is non existent, lock up the front and you are going down. Oh and your rear tire will lock up instantly if you touch the rear brake, and even sometimes just with engine braking

I road my MX bike in the snow over thanksgiving weekend in PA riding with my buddy. I went down 3 times before i called it quits and the 3rd time i was going down a hill and my front brake iced up and could not slow down at all just picked up speed and had to dump the bike. At that point i said, This sh!t is crazy, i don't need to hurt myself out here which is a high probability. We did the same thing last year in Oct. It was fun but like i said, crashing is not an odd occurrence.

Will be looking for your post in the (@*&^@$*#^!!#*&^*) Crashed!!! thread
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Old October 8th, 2018, 06:16 PM   #38
NinjaGod25
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Originally Posted by spooph View Post
To the original question: Tire sizes:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcyc.../tire-data.htm

so, you're talking about a 125ish rear - not quite wide enough. It's better to go wider in this instance...

Currently, I'm looking at the Kenda K761 Dual Sport tires....
Are you sure that's accurate? I've come to the understanding that having a wider tire facilitates slightly more traction, but requires the bike to lean farther. A skinnier tire has a smaller curve than a wider tire, therefore reducing the required lean angle, which would be preferred in wet or snowy/icy conditions. Is this correct?
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Old October 8th, 2018, 08:33 PM   #39
dcj13
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MOTM - Aug '15
Welcome, Mason!

You have given the breath of life to a dead thread!
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