January 29th, 2012, 11:52 AM | #1 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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Greenaero's Ninja Hypermiling project
Hi All, I started competing in fuel economy competitions last year sponspored by motorcycle designer Craig Vetter. After competing in the 11/2011 Las Vegas to Barstow Vetter Fuel Economy Challenge, I thought a lot about my future participation in these real-world fuel economy contests. While I'm pleased to have improved a 40mpg bike ( 1982 Yamaha Vision 550 )into a 60mpg+ machine I have to recognize the inherent disadvantages my Vision ( 550cc, shaft-drive ) presents versus the 250cc gas bikes and the diesel bikes that have been the previous Vetter Challenge winners ( 134 mpg to ~ 157 mpg). I decided to start looking for a used 250cc bike to modify for future fuel economy runs.
After about 2 weeks of searching I found a 1999 Kawasaki Ninja 250 in good running condition for a good price and well under my project budget. It was a salvaged bike and so I had to have it inspected by the police and the engine and frame #s verified to get it titled and registered for street usage. I adjusted the valve clearances, sparkplug gap, cleaned and re-oiled the air filter and changed the oil and filter. I topped off the tank and rode it around running errands for a few days before doing my first official mpg calculation: 65 mpg. 12/31/2011- I rode with Alan Smith( Ninja 250 streamliner, 116 mpg best ) and another stock 2008 Ninja 250 as well as a Triumph 1100 and a BMW 1200. We topped off our tanks at the start of ride and refueled at the end of the ride 126.7 miles later. The ride was at a spirited pace on twisty backroads on a cold day with with about 20 freeway miles on the way back. Alan got 89.47 mpg, the 2008 ninja got 62.1 mpg and I got 72.8 mpg. I was pleased with how the bike runs and how well it handles. It was interesting to compare the 2 stock ninjas with Alan's to see how effective his modifications are. I'm pleased to already have beaten my best tankfill on my Vision 550cc ( 66.8 mpg) . Now that I had my baseline I was ready to start my modications. I began with some aerodymic modifications: larger windscreen , fully faried front fender, changed to a lower seat pad and a small strap-on tailsection. I got a best tankfill of 76 mpg. Next I changed my front and rear sprockets from 14/45 to 15/41. I also modified the tail section so it was taller and came to a point in the back. I will be refueling soon and will post the results. CHeck out photos my bike on the gatllery . I realize many people are currently not interested in fuel economy but I believe that as the price of fuel increases this will change. I hope to help to others who are interested in getting great fuel economy out of these excellent motorcycles. I'm doing this because I think its important for all us to do our part to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and to efficiently use our limited natural resources. This is my personal contrbution in reducing the flow of American dollars to the sponsors of terrorism. I believe we all can make a positive difference. best wishes, Greenaero Last futzed with by greenaero; January 29th, 2012 at 12:56 PM. Reason: grammar |
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January 29th, 2012, 12:04 PM | #2 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Johnny
Location: Houston
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 145
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Sounds very thorough, good luck with the testing. Look forward to seeing the results!
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January 29th, 2012, 03:49 PM | #3 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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thanks JP129, I hope to break into the 80 mpg or better range with my current mods. Next steps will probably be taller gearing and more areodynamic refinements. I'll definitely keep you posted.
thx GA |
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January 29th, 2012, 04:32 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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you want to go even higher gearing than 15/41?? dude
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January 29th, 2012, 06:42 PM | #5 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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Hi, Yes, The streamlining I've added reduces the aerodynamic drag so that the engine doesn't have to work as hard at freeway speeds, allowing much taller gearing. Even with the 15/41 gearing, acceleration is still pretty good. I will probably try a 15/39 combo next. I have another hypermiler friend ( Alan Smith) with a streamlined 2003 Ninja that is currently running a 15/37 combo and is going to try running a 15/33 combo. He has a best tankfill of 116 mpg.
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January 29th, 2012, 07:01 PM | #6 |
Towster ['__'`,-,
Name: Josh
Location: San Diego, CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Green Ninja 250 SE Posts: 379
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Not true at all. I am getting a bike for this reason. I currently have a 30 MPG car, but I want to double that. I think a lot of people in Cali get a bike for the gas reason. They are just so fuel efficient and our gas here is the highest in the country.
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January 29th, 2012, 07:36 PM | #7 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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Hi, Yes, The streamlining I've added reduces the aerodynamic drag so that the engine doesn't have to work as hard at freeway speeds, allowing much taller gearing. Even with the 15/41 gearing, acceleration is still pretty good. I will probably try a 15/39 combo next. I have another hypermiler friend ( Alan Smith) with a streamlined 2003 Ninja that is currently running a 15/37 combo and is going to try running a 15/33 combo. He has a best tankfill of 116 mpg.
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January 29th, 2012, 08:15 PM | #8 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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AJ, I'm glad you get it and hopefully many will be interested in getting great fuel economy. While motorcycles generally get better fuel economy than most cars and trucks they don't perform particularly well when compared to well designed small cars due to the motorcycle's high aerodydamic drag compared to a car and their high-revving, top-end oriented power bands.
Some hybrids and small cars can get 50+mpg to 40 mpg. Most motorcycles get mid 40's mpg. Many elite hypermiler driven cars ( 50 to 80 mpg can trounce the average motorcyclist's fuel economy numbers. By attacking the motorcycle's aero drag and high engine rpms we can begin to catch some of the gains that cars have made in recent years. I now ride more than I drive. I don't want to go at a snail's pace just to get good fuel economy numbers. In the Vetter Challenges we seek to develop motorcycles that can go 70mph into a 30 mph headwind, get over 100 mpg and can carry 4 bags of groceries. These goals make for motorcycles that are more than justing sporting toys but are practical for everyday transportation use. best wishes GA Last futzed with by greenaero; February 4th, 2012 at 06:19 PM. |
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January 29th, 2012, 09:57 PM | #9 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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@RacerX does similar aero stuff. his goal is a little bit different though. interesting stuff none the less. welcome home capn.
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January 29th, 2012, 10:26 PM | #10 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
I will keep my opinions of the 15/37 gearing on a sport bike that boasts 14 lb-ft of torque to myself because we obviously have very different views of what we want out of this bike. To each his own sir Definitely a cool project I'll keep reading about your results |
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January 30th, 2012, 03:57 AM | #11 |
User Title Free Since '12
Name: Floyd
Location: Barbados
Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): '10 Ninja 250R Special Edition Green Posts: A lot.
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Vic,
Great to have you here. Is Alan a member, too? Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress as you make the mods. Project threads like these serve as a good reference for others wanting to hypermile. Don't forget to include photos and lots of detail! Or perhaps you and Alan could come in here with a "DIY: Hypermile your Ninjette" thread to more specifically show others how to make the needed mods. I'd love to get some tips on riding technique to improve MPG as well.
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"Improvement makes straight roads, but the crooked roads without improvement, are roads of genius." — William Blake |
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January 30th, 2012, 10:43 AM | #12 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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Thanks guys!
Chris, you are correct that the changes I am making will decrease the bike's accelleration capability. I define " adequate accelleration "as still being quicker than most cars. That is the point at which I'll stop gearing up. The only downside to the aero mods is the change in appearance and increased sensitivity to sidewinds. The upside is greater fuel efficieny , comfort, weather protection, carrying capacity, and top speed capability. When I was a young man ( I'm 60) I was into going fast all the time. After a few slide outs and traffic tickets I started to understand that there are seroius consequences to breaking traffic laws and the laws of physics. I tried racing briefly but lacked the money and commitment to pursue it fully. The racetrack is the place is enjoy speed and ride at your limits safely. Over time, I learned to enjoy motorcycling without pushing it all the time. I still am a competitive and inquistive person and found the challenges I was seeking in hypermiling. I am now very interested in getting more people taking action to improve their fuel economy. Floyd, I don't think Alan is a member here. He is one of the premier motorcycle hypermilers in the world and besides becoming a great friend to me, is a very knowledgeable, a great fabricator and generous in sharing his knowledge. He doesn't post much as he usually too busy working on his projects. For information on his current work check out the Vetter website ( www.craigvetter.com ) in the Streamlining the Ninja chapters. I plan to write an article about him and his accomplishments and I will post a copy here. I'll also be happy to write an article on motorcycle hypermiling and post it here for those that are interested. all the best GA ( Vic) |
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January 30th, 2012, 01:38 PM | #13 |
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That would be an interesting thread. For an every day rider, some tips on how to get a few extra mpg would be good
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January 30th, 2012, 04:36 PM | #14 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ryan
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250r Candy Apple Lime Posts: 68
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Quote:
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January 30th, 2012, 04:46 PM | #15 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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@ryanG19 Hell yes as in Ohio Northern!! You on Campus? There's a red '08 here too, dunno who it is. Just checked the member map. You're only like a half hour from from campus. Not fair. I'm 2.5
recognize the view |
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January 30th, 2012, 04:54 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ryan
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250r Candy Apple Lime Posts: 68
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Yeah I was on the first floor Freshman year. There's a Red one, a custom Orange one, and my green one are the only 3 I've seen. I live off campus now though. My old roommate and best friend Joey B, is an officer in SME. Small world.
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January 30th, 2012, 05:07 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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The burnt orange one? I saw that on craigslist in the fall. I'm debating bringing my bike once it warms up because I don't have a car, but I dunno.
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January 30th, 2012, 05:10 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ryan
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250r Candy Apple Lime Posts: 68
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January 30th, 2012, 06:21 PM | #19 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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No problemo bro!
I filled up this afternoon after running some errands and the results are .... 78.47 mpg ( 2.35 gal for 184.4 miles) So close to 80 mpg. The taller gearing is working great, still good acceleration and I think some room to go taller. I have GreenJoe's 33 tooth rear sprocket but I think that might be too much, plus I would have to shorten my chain or get a new one. I may see if about testing Alan Smith's 39T that offered to let use. I need to talk to Craig Vetter about getting the third Vetter tail mounted on my bike. Things are looking up. |
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January 30th, 2012, 09:54 PM | #20 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
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Seeing that yall are going for the best mileage, what changes in riding style did yall do to achieve this mileage? What is your cruising speed on the open highway?
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January 30th, 2012, 11:35 PM | #21 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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I plan on writing an article on riding techniques to get optimal fuel economy. I usually ride at the speed limit ( 65mph to 70 mph) sometimes faster if the traffic demands it. In a few words, its all about using the least amount of energy to get to your target speed then maintaining your speed, using your brakes as little as possible by looking far ahead down the road; avoiding the starts and stops that eat up lots of fuel. To get to speed I accelerate moderately but shift quickly at the low end of the powerband ( 4-6K rpm)and get into the highest gear that the bike will cruise comfortably at the target speed. I corner smoothly at high speeds to conserve my momentum. Its kind of like racing a tobaggan or a soapbox derby car ; using your forward motion to the maximum before you replenish it by opening the throttle. Its all about paying attention to all the details all the time just as you would if you trying to go fast as you could all the time. Only hypermiling is safer, and saves your bike and your hard-earned dollars. Hope this helps.
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January 31st, 2012, 08:09 AM | #22 |
vampire
Name: A
Location: IT
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2 many 2 list Posts: A lot.
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Lose 20 lb. from your body would probably help.
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January 31st, 2012, 09:04 AM | #23 |
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January 31st, 2012, 09:11 AM | #24 |
vampire
Name: A
Location: IT
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2 many 2 list Posts: A lot.
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What, you don't agree that rider loosing 20 lb. can affect fuel consumption?
What does your previous post have to contribute to the subject of thread topic? What do any of your posts have to contribute to better fuel economy in this thread? who's the now? |
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January 31st, 2012, 09:47 AM | #25 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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I agree with A's premise it's just in my case I'm a very fit 5'10, 147 lb. Nothing but spring steel and tiger meat! :0
Weight reduction for both vehicle and rider are beneficial, particularly for very light vehicles like our motorcycles. It's not as big a factor as aerodynamic drag or mechanical friction losses but still another area to pursue. I should wiegh my bike. I have removed the stock seat, windscreen , front fender , rear fender, tailsection and plastic sidepanels. I replaced them with my coroplast streamlining which is pretty light weight. I suspect my ninja weighs about the same as stock or at least within 10 lbs. |
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January 31st, 2012, 10:31 AM | #26 |
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January 31st, 2012, 10:46 AM | #27 |
vampire
Name: A
Location: IT
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2 many 2 list Posts: A lot.
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It's a valid, honest option and one that's most commonly overlooked... If you don't like it, don't do it; at least it's related to the topic of thread vs your useless post.
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January 31st, 2012, 01:36 PM | #28 | |
User Title Free Since '12
Name: Floyd
Location: Barbados
Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): '10 Ninja 250R Special Edition Green Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
__________________________________________________
"Improvement makes straight roads, but the crooked roads without improvement, are roads of genius." — William Blake |
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February 4th, 2012, 01:57 PM | #29 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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104 mpg !!!
I refilled the Ninja today and the results are .... 104.35 mpg!!!!!
Needless to say , I'm very happy with this and am suprised that I was able to break the 100 mpg barrier so quickly. I was hoping for a tankfill in the 80mpg range and now this. I have mentioned in previous posts I was impressed with how easily the bike was running with the 15/41 sprocket combo and I was looking to bump it up some more. I thought I would need to do this to break into the 100mpg range. What a pleasant surprise. Thanks to you all for your support, advice and encouragement. It means a great deal to me and I truly appreciate it. GreenAero |
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February 4th, 2012, 02:25 PM | #30 |
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Very cool!!!
is this just off of one tank? Are you going to try and get even better by going with that 15/39 setup? |
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February 4th, 2012, 03:12 PM | #32 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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Thanks Chris! Yes , this tankfill I went 194.1 miles and needed 1.86 galllons to refill for 104.35 mpg. I was hoping for a tankfill average in the 80-90mpg range so this is a big surprise. I knew I would break the 100mpg barrier, I just didn't think I would do so fast or with so little effort.
I will be going for taller gearing to see what the Ninja will do with it for extracting maximum fuel economy. But its good to know that I can get in the 100's with 15/41 gearing. It still accelerates OK for me and will be more fun to ride around with 15/33 gearing. all the best, GA |
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February 4th, 2012, 03:18 PM | #33 |
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15/33? I bet you're going to have to get a shorter chain
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February 4th, 2012, 06:42 PM | #34 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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Chris, yes, I'll need a shorter chain for the 33T sprocket.
RacerX, I posted some with my profile. I need to learn how to include them in a post. My bike looks pretty ugly compared to some of beautiful bikes here. I just started modding my bike and haven't spent any time getting it to look better. For me it's function over form. If you want to send me a PM, I'll be happy to send you some pix. Someone mentioned that you were doing some aerodynamic modifications also. I assume for going faster? My mods are similar to what Land Speed Record competitors use on their bikes. all the best, GA |
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February 4th, 2012, 06:51 PM | #35 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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I see only beauty in the small photo of your bike. 100 mpg is hi performance in my book. My bike gets like 10 -20 mpg maybe,
I like what you have done. totally illegal for land speed racing. So it is out there without restrictions. |
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February 4th, 2012, 07:15 PM | #36 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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Thanks brother ! Let's see if these pix come thru OK. The group pix are from the ride I did with Alan Smith ( Ninja streamliner with Craig Vetter tail) and a stock 2008 new gen. This was just before I added my mods and was my last baseline mileage run.
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February 5th, 2012, 12:06 PM | #37 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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Fresh pictures from this morning showing side and front profiles with rider on aboard.
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February 6th, 2012, 07:35 AM | #38 |
Milkshake Drinker
Name: Skippii
Location: Richmond, Va
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.
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Why use a 15T sprocket instead of a 16T? Makes it a lots easier to switch without changing chains. Or are you trying to save weight from chain and sprockets? As far as weight goes, there's about 40 pounds to be lost with a lithium battery and cf exhaust...but good luck finding a light exhaust that helps with fuel economy! I can't really see weight mattering much unless there are a lot of hills, though.
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February 6th, 2012, 09:53 AM | #39 |
Motorcycle Hypermiler
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.
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Hi Skippi, A 16T front sprocket is too big to use without grinding away some clearance, at least that is what my research says. I'm into reversible modifications plus I already have access to smaller rear sprockets ( 39T, 37 T and 33 T) .
The weight change would be too small to make a noticeable in fuel economy. I would'nt mind a single can exhaust system but I don't want something that is going increase horsepower at the cost of fuel economy. The battery that came with the bike is pretty small already. The stock pre-gen Ninja is already a pretty light bike ( 304 lbs. dry). Another factor is cost. If I have to spend hundreds of dollars to save fuel I have to look at the return on ivestment to achieve it. I started this project as a demonstration of how a low cost motrcycle with low cost modifications could return world class fuel economy. So far I've onlty invested about $850, including the cost of the motorcycle. Excellent questions, thanks for asking. all the best GA |
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February 6th, 2012, 01:25 PM | #40 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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$850 total??? ha. ummm I'd rather not discuss how much I've spent on my bike
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