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Old March 23rd, 2020, 02:52 PM   #1
Rexmortale
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Messed up my carburetor and I can't figure out what this piece is. Help!

Just picked up an 08 ninja 250r for about $1500 for my wife. When we got it it would die whenever we tried to turn the throttle. Put some seafoam through and it helped a little but still had some issues. So I decided to pull the carb and clean it out. While cleaning the carb I decided to pull the plug so we could access the fuel mixture screw because we live at a higher altitude. Well long story short I pulled the wrong plug and now I can't find a replacement. I don't even see it in the diagrams and I cannot find anything on them please help. It's on the bottom by the bowls. It's a brass cap/plug that goes over what I believe are the 4 bypass holes that lead to the butterfly valve. Hear are some pictures. I really appreciate any help I can get. I just need a replacement so I can tap it back in place and get this thing going again. There are two of them, one per carb, I only pulled one. The fist picture is what the brass cap/plug should look like the second one is the empty space it goes into.
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File Type: jpg IMG_20200323_144636964.jpg (96.4 KB, 9 views)
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Last futzed with by Rexmortale; March 23rd, 2020 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 03:20 PM   #2
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Part of the pilot circuit...the 4 little holes are known as "transition ports".

I'll surmise the hole is designed to provide production access allowing drilling of those ports from the exterior of the venturi, then permanently plugged afterwards, to be left intact from that point forward.

I've never had to remove or replace one before, but accurately measuring both diameter and depth in order to source some sort of replacement should be doable.

A small plug possibly from radio control car, automotive, electronics or firearms industry....you'll need to do some homework.

Do NOT use any sort of liquid sealant as the port beneath must remain.

The intended target fuel mixture screw lives under the EPA anti tamper plug shown at 12:00 from the brass plug.
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Last futzed with by ducatiman; March 23rd, 2020 at 04:51 PM.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 03:27 PM   #3
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is the original plug still basically complete to some degree, or is it mauled?
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 04:49 PM   #4
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Yeah, if you have original plug, you can repair and put back in. Heat up with crème burlée torche and use plumbing solder or jeweler's silver-solder to plug hole that was drilled.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 05:39 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
is the original plug still basically complete to some degree, or is it mauled?
It's pretty mauled, the length is there but I drilled it out to get a grasp on it. So there is a hole on the side that's supposed to be blocked off?
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 05:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexmortale View Post
So there is a hole on the side that's supposed to be blocked off?
Huh? What left you with that idea? Side of what?

Suggestion....save the remnant for dimensional purposes.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 06:02 PM   #7
Rexmortale
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Huh? What left you with that idea? Side of what?

Suggestion....save the remnant for dimensional purposes.
Sorry mis typed. There are two more holes on the inside. I'm guessing they aren't supposed to be blocked. They are on the inside on the side. They are directly across from each other from where the adjustment screw is to the bowl. Here is a picture, not sure if you can see it though.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 06:42 PM   #8
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MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
Not visible in photo, I believe the holes you reference are an intersection within the oft mentioned "invisible circuits", cojoining between the air correction circuit, pilot screw, pilot jet and transition ports...

No, you can't block *any* holes within, thus my warning regarding liquids. I think I'm seeing a ridge in the now exposed plug orifice....some precise measuring required to calculate diameter and depth of the needed plug to enable permanent fix. The ridge is designed as a stop to prevent the plug from penetrating and blocking holes within.

PS the plug *must be* sealed airtight as well....allowed no ability whatsoever to vent.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 06:49 PM   #9
Rexmortale
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Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
Not visible in photo, I believe the holes you reference are an intersection within the oft mentioned "invisible circuits", cojoining between the air correction circuit, pilot screw, pilot jet and transition ports...

No, you can't block *any* holes within, thus my warning regarding liquids. I think I'm seeing a ridge in the now exposed plug orifice....some precise measuring required to calculate diameter and depth of the needed plug to enable permanent fix. The ridge is designed as a stop to prevent the plug from penetrating and blocking holes within.

PS the plug *must be* sealed airtight as well....allowed no ability whatsoever to vent.
Ok. Thank you everyone for your help. I'm going to try the silver soder method and see if I can repair the original plug. I'll post whether or not it worked. The diameter of the original plug measure 5/16 or 7mm, 5/16 looked closer so I'll also look around and see if I can find anything that will work.
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Old March 23rd, 2020, 07:05 PM   #10
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good luck with it
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Old March 24th, 2020, 02:46 PM   #11
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good luck with it
Thank you for all your help. Silver sodered the plug and sanded the bottom down smooth. Tapped the plug back into place and got the carb put back on the the. No new issues so far except for the original issues that prompted me to pull the carb. Engine bogs down when I open the throttle and hesitates when I actually get the revs up. I pulled the adjustment screws and cleaned them out and set them to factory. Right 2/12, left 1 3/4. I tried richening the fuel and it seemed to help a little, it wouldn't hesitate as much when I got the revs higher but whenever I tried to blip the throttle it would still almost die. I believe I read somewhere on this vast internet the the fuel adjust screws need to be about a 3/4 difference turn from each other so I kept that rule in mind. When I was playing with it I had the right side 4 turns out and the right 3 1/4. As I was adjusting them I didn't notice any big changes in the sound. I put them back to factory because it started snowing. But after I put the screws Back, I took my laser thermometer and the right side header was about 50 degree's F cooler than the left. Here are some pictures of the soder job. Again thank you all for your help. All adjustments were made while the bike was warned up.
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File Type: jpg IMG_20200323_190811131.jpg (41.0 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20200323_191857848.jpg (63.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20200323_190718780.jpg (72.3 KB, 2 views)

Last futzed with by Rexmortale; March 24th, 2020 at 02:48 PM. Reason: I suck at typing on my phone
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Old March 24th, 2020, 03:24 PM   #12
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the side with the lower temp likely has a plugged pilot circuit.

A test when warm and running ....progressively seating a given pilot adjust screw, bit by bit, should at some point cause that cylinder to misfire...backing out it should then recover. This should be the case on each side....if not, you've found an obvious symptom. Next > dig in to find the underlying cause. Throttle plates badly out of sych? Pilot circuit clogging to some degree? Tight, out of spec valves or a even spark issue?

If bike has sat inop for an extended period, likely pilot circuit. ...you are the Doctor...go git 'em.

Snow....brrrr. Around 50/sunny here today...batteries returned to 2 of my 4. I'm poised and can't wait to practice my own version of "social isolation"
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Old March 25th, 2020, 02:01 PM   #13
Rexmortale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
the side with the lower temp likely has a plugged pilot circuit.

A test when warm and running ....progressively seating a given pilot adjust screw, bit by bit, should at some point cause that cylinder to misfire...backing out it should then recover. This should be the case on each side....if not, you've found an obvious symptom. Next > dig in to find the underlying cause. Throttle plates badly out of sych? Pilot circuit clogging to some degree? Tight, out of spec valves or a even spark issue?

If bike has sat inop for an extended period, likely pilot circuit. ...you are the Doctor...go git 'em.

Snow....brrrr. Around 50/sunny here today...batteries returned to 2 of my 4. I'm poised and can't wait to practice my own version of "social isolation"
50 and sunny? I'm jealous. Played with the screws again, I have a couple of vacuum guages coming in tomorrow so I can ensure the carbs are synced. Both screw are currently 4 out, I'm afraid they are just going to pop out if I do any more. Bike seems "ok" at this point. Surprisingly it's started right up with the choke on this morning after I made the adjustments last night. Took it for a ride to get air in the tires. It still hesitates if I twist the throttle to quickly and when I was riding it it would hit about 9000 rmp and kinda want to stay there depending on what gear it was in. I wasn't going that fast and it's not the 600's I'm used to so that's probably just rider erroe. Would a dyno jet kit be a worthwhile investment at this point? Thank you for all of your help. Also would anyone know any reputable place I could send the carb to be completely pulled apart and properly rebuilt? I figure that may just be the best route to go.

Here's to a few more days of self isolation with the inability to ride 😢.
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Old March 25th, 2020, 02:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexmortale View Post
50 and sunny? I'm jealous. Played with the screws again, I have a couple of vacuum guages coming in tomorrow so I can ensure the carbs are synced. Both screw are currently 4 out, I'm afraid they are just going to pop out if I do any more. Bike seems "ok" at this point. Surprisingly it's started right up with the choke on this morning after I made the adjustments last night. Took it for a ride to get air in the tires. It still hesitates if I twist the throttle to quickly and when I was riding it it would hit about 9000 rmp and kinda want to stay there depending on what gear it was in. I wasn't going that fast and it's not the 600's I'm used to so that's probably just rider erroe. Would a dyno jet kit be a worthwhile investment at this point? Thank you for all of your help. Also would anyone know any reputable place I could send the carb to be completely pulled apart and properly rebuilt? I figure that may just be the best route to go.

Here's to a few more days of self isolation with the inability to ride 😢.
uh, perhaps I can help there? email gordon@customcarbservices.com and I'll send you a PM in the meantime
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Old March 25th, 2020, 03:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexmortale View Post
Also would anyone know any reputable place I could send the carb to be completely pulled apart and properly rebuilt? I figure that may just be the best route to go.
Check out these threads:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226815
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239678
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