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Old December 1st, 2017, 09:32 PM   #1
randycastell
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20w50?

Hello all! Thank you for indulging me with this question: What do you think of 20w50 motorcycle oil in the EX300? our winters in SF bay area are mild and the little twin revs so high that I'm thinking 20 grade is fine for starting in my climate and 50 grade is great for 13K rpm. Not sure how it will affect the wet clutch on this bike.

And the Hi-Flo filter. What are your thoughts on the quality for the Ninja 300. I use the brand exclusively on my Ducati, as well as the 20w50 on the Paso which has a dry clutch.

I value your thoughts and I thank you for your time and attention.
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Old December 1st, 2017, 10:22 PM   #2
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I gave you my experienced opinion on the fork brace, but you can't suck me into an oil thread.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 01:58 AM   #3
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Viscosity is but just one property of oil. Yet it's not a good predictor of high-RPM lubrication. There are many other characteristics and ingredients that are more pertinent. Please read the following articles so we have same background info to start this discussion.


https://www.sportrider.com/oils-well-ends-well-part-1
https://www.sportrider.com/oils-well...ds-well-part-2
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:59 AM   #4
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Remember that viscosity is a floating target. There is no oil that maintains the same viscosity across all temperatures. As oil warms, it thins. Period. Viscosity modifiers are how we end up with multi-grade oils, such as 10W-40. The SAE 10 is the base oil, then modifiers are added, which, with heat, uncoil their chains and create friction in the fluid. This internal friction mimics the viscosity of a higher grade oil, which makes the oil behave like it's higher rated number.

Anyhow. Back to the beginning. Temp vs Viscosity. It's called kinematic viscosity and the temperature is always important. If anyone ever asks you "What's the viscosity of this oil?" your response without hesitation should always be, "What's the temperature?" Look at manufacturer spec sheets and you'll see that it typically has multiple temps that it defines a viscosity for. For example, ISO grade oils always have viscosity defined for 40C and 100C, shown in centistokes cSt. Temp is just as important as the rated viscosity grade.

Its very possible (in fact likely) that there is some hot temperature where 20W-50 has the same viscosity as 10W-40 at the rated hot temp, as outlined by the SAE. By recommending 10W-40, Kawasaki has stated that our engine does best with a viscosity of X cSt at this temp. If you find some temperature where 20W-50 has the same viscosity as 10W-40 at the SAE operating temp, and then have data to show that your engine meets those temp demands, go for it. Other than that, I see no reason to mess with the hot grade for these engines. Remember that the highest temp inside an engine is in the jugs, where the rings slide across the cylinder walls. This temp is NOT highly affected by atmospheric temps during normal operation, but IS highly affected by air/fuel mixture, ignition timing, engine loading, etc. However, the cold temps ARE affected by atmospheric conditions, as you're starting your engine at whatever temp the air around it is. This brings up the first number of a multigrade, but that's an entirely different discussion.

To surmise this whole post: viscosity and temps are intimately related. To make a change to viscosity, you must have a well defined understanding of the temperatures that will be experienced by the lubricant. Engine RPM is important because it gives you an idea on how much oil flow there should be to transfer heat appropriately, but that's only a small portion of the decision. If you reaallllly want to change oils, you need to get the special logarithmic-scale graphing paper, plot the kinematic viscosity of each oil you're considering, and then draw a box with the outer limits of your temp range and outer limits of your viscosity. Whichever curve fits the biggest amount inside the box is the "best" choice. There's various little calculators to do this online, so do some research before randomly deciding to change engine oils.

Link to kinematic viscosity:
http://www.viscopedia.com/viscosity-...es/engine-oil/


FWIW, I really don't think the weather in SF Bay area is significantly different enough to justify straying from the "normal" 10W-40 or 5W-40, but this is just a SWAG without any data to back it. AKA, anecdotal. But do the research and prove me wrong. You'll learn something along the way and your engine will get the best lubricant for it, regardless of who is right and who is wrong.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 11:53 AM   #5
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5/40?

I went to the T6 after reading about it. I had run reg. 15/40 in several bikes over the yrs as the write-ups for diesel seemed good. My Futura that was swapped for the 300 got a diet of 15/50 Mobil 1. In the 70s the Guzzi Sport got 20/50 Valvoline. My basis was thicker for bigger slower revers. But now w cars going 0/20 or some such 5/40 seems thick enough. Old and still a bit Clueless!
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 01:19 PM   #6
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I'd just stick with the 10W40 that Kawasaki has designed the bike to use.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 03:39 PM   #7
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I'd just stick with the 10W40 that Kawasaki has designed the bike to use.
I'm confident with Mobil 1 Racing 4T Advanced Full Synthetic 10w-40. I, like Triple Jim, will not get into an engine oil duel.

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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:00 PM   #8
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Yeah, full synthetic is way to go. That poor Paso isn’t even getting the minimum oil requirements recommended by Ducati!
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 08:39 PM   #9
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Thank you so much for your replies. Everyone. Very helpful. I'll take the good advice found here and I am so grateful for the new understanding this thread has brought me. The Duc is fine. :-)
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Old December 17th, 2017, 04:56 PM   #10
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I shopped and found and use an excellent fully synthetic 4T 5w40 motorcycle oil from Germany on Amazon less expensive than Mobile or Shell or Castrol for the same specification.

Link here— https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OJHLEV4...vert-amazon-20
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Old December 18th, 2017, 12:35 AM   #11
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The Bay Area is really not warm enough to warrant using 20W-50 lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by randycastell View Post
I shopped and found and use an excellent fully synthetic 4T 5w40 motorcycle oil from Germany on Amazon less expensive than Mobile or Shell or Castrol for the same specification.
Shell Rotella T6 is definitely cheaper at only ~$21 at Walmart and you can easily pick it up at any time. Even cheaper if they are running a rebate at the time, which happens every so often.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 07:13 AM   #12
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Not that it would matter to me, but T6 isn't synthetic at all, it just passes the requirements that allow it to be classified as synthetic. That helps with the price.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 07:47 AM   #13
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Not that it would matter to me, but T6 isn't synthetic at all, it just passes the requirements that allow it to be classified as synthetic. That helps with the price.
Kinda.

It's a hydro-cracked Group III synthetic - which in the U.S. is allowed to be called synthetic.

Outside of the U.S. Group III oils are not allowed to be called synthetic.

It's not the best synthetic, but it certainly adequate for most cycle use and is has most of the traits of synthetic that you want - meaning it flows better at low temps and doesn't breakdown at high temps like conventional oil does.

Almost all of the "synthetic" automotive oils are Group III - standard Mobil 1 (Extended Performance are a few others are Group IV), Castrol Syntec, Pennzoil Platinum, Quaker State synthetic, etc.

T6 does shear-down to a low 40-grade/high 30-grade oil rather quickly in a cycle trans - which isn't really a problem unless it affects smooth shifting. It is noticeable in my SV650 after about 1000 mi, so I've been using Group IV or V cycle oil instead. Based on our experience with the little Ninja, T6 holds up fine.

It's a solid choice for most cycles IMO.

The next step up are Group IV PAOs and Group V Esters.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 07:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randycastell View Post
I shopped and found and use an excellent fully synthetic 4T 5w40 motorcycle oil from Germany on Amazon less expensive than Mobile or Shell or Castrol for the same specification.

Link here— https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OJHLEV4...vert-amazon-20
Never heard of that brand, but it's a Group V Ester - which is the top of the line.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 08:42 AM   #15
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I have a problem with oil that starts as crude oil from underground being classified as synthetic, but it's not a big problem because I generally don't buy expensive oil.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 09:42 AM   #16
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"Shell Rotella T6 is definitely cheaper at only ~$21 at Walmart and you can easily pick it up at any time. Even cheaper if they are running a rebate at the time, which happens every so often."

HTB. I've only seen Shell Rotella T6 in the $45-50 range for 4 litres. Even at Walmart...
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Old December 18th, 2017, 10:06 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by randycastell View Post
"Shell Rotella T6 is definitely cheaper at only ~$21 at Walmart and you can easily pick it up at any time. Even cheaper if they are running a rebate at the time, which happens every so often."

HTB. I've only seen Shell Rotella T6 in the $45-50 range for 4 litres. Even at Walmart...
Hmmm. Members here are spending about $800.00 for a motorcycle helmet and then worry about the cost of 1.5 qts of engine oil or 1/2 a pint of brake fluid? My 78 C.I. Alfa Romeo had an eight quart sump - now THAT's when you start to be concerned about the cost of engine oil.

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Old December 18th, 2017, 10:19 AM   #18
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No worry at all, Bill. It's just that in 50 years or so of experience with many engines of many types, I've never had a type-of-oil related problem or failure. Having the right amount of good, clean oil of the correct viscosity in an engine is a zillion times more important than what kind it is. And I've miked many crankshaft journals, measured and plotted cam lobes, inspected bores and piston surfaces, etc..

There are guys who research and buy the absolute best oil they can find, and there are others who use decent, ordinary dino oil, and there's no reason to try to convince someone of the other group he's wrong, or try to convince newcomers that they're foolish to buy anything but synthetic oil.

Since I've been around the Internet boards, I've read of engine failures from low oil, too much oil, forgetting to put oil in a newly rebuilt engine, and water in the oil, but never a failure that could be attributed to not spending enough on oil.

And I buy helmets that meet DOT and Snell standards, but have never been over about $120.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 01:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randycastell View Post
"Shell Rotella T6 is definitely cheaper at only ~$21 at Walmart and you can easily pick it up at any time. Even cheaper if they are running a rebate at the time, which happens every so often."

HTB. I've only seen Shell Rotella T6 in the $45-50 range for 4 litres. Even at Walmart...
Shouldn't be that much.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 01:52 PM   #20
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Amazon has 5W-40 T6 for $29/gallon, and a $5 rebate that brings it down to $24.

https://www.amazon.com/Shell-ROTELLA...01LH7L0KS?th=1
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Old December 18th, 2017, 02:23 PM   #21
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No worry at all, Bill. It's just that in 50 years or so of experience with many engines of many types, I've never had a type-of-oil related problem or failure. Having the right amount of good, clean oil of the correct viscosity in an engine is a zillion times more important than what kind it is. And I've miked many crankshaft journals, measured and plotted cam lobes, inspected bores and piston surfaces, etc..

There are guys who research and buy the absolute best oil they can find, and there are others who use decent, ordinary dino oil, and there's no reason to try to convince someone of the other group he's wrong, or try to convince newcomers that they're foolish to buy anything but synthetic oil.

Since I've been around the Internet boards, I've read of engine failures from low oil, too much oil, forgetting to put oil in a newly rebuilt engine, and water in the oil, but never a failure that could be attributed to not spending enough on oil.

And I buy helmets that meet DOT and Snell standards, but have never been over about $120.
My post wasn't directed at YOU Jim.

Anyway, I use Mobil products because "Cycle" magazine was always referencing Mobil Research Department results in many of their editorials. I was a Castrol, and Sunoco 260 freak at the time but it stuck with me. Then I read an article on the Mobil.com website about a BMW 530i they ran on a test bed for the equivalent of 500,000 miles on Mobil One synthetic. When the engine was torn down 90% of the engine parts could have been put back on the new manufacture assembly line. Bullroar you say. OK, I'm happy with 250,000 miles.

Brush the snowflakes off your jacket.

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Old December 18th, 2017, 02:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randycastell View Post
"Shell Rotella T6 is definitely cheaper at only ~$21 at Walmart and you can easily pick it up at any time. Even cheaper if they are running a rebate at the time, which happens every so often."

HTB. I've only seen Shell Rotella T6 in the $45-50 range for 4 litres. Even at Walmart...
What Walmarts are you going to?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rotella-T...-A0II/14958681
It's out of stock on their website right now but that's the price I always see, and I'm also in the Bay Area. I just bought some a few nights ago.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 03:00 PM   #23
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Then I read an article on the Mobil.com website about a BMW 530i they ran on a test bed for the equivalent of 500,000 miles on Mobil One synthetic. When the engine was torn down 90% of the engine parts could have been put back on the new manufacture assembly line.
That really gets to my point... I have a Vega engine that had something like 200,000 miles on the crank, running with dino oil, and the journals measured within new tolerance. It doesn't matter much what oil you use, as long as it's there in the right amount and kept clean.

The exceptions are engines like racing 2-stroke snowmobiles that really do tax an oil to its limit by expecting to keep pistons an cylinders happy at very low oil/fuel ratios and very high loads. But they have numbers like 300 hp from 1000cc.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 03:16 PM   #24
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That really gets to my point... I have a Vega engine that had something like 200,000 miles on the crank, running with dino oil, and the journals measured within new tolerance. It doesn't matter much what oil you use, as long as it's there in the right amount and kept clean.

The exceptions are engines like racing 2-stroke snowmobiles that really do tax an oil to its limit by expecting to keep pistons an cylinders happy at very low oil/fuel ratios and very high loads. But they have numbers like 300 hp from 1000cc.
If you have one of those Vegas that run the pistons on the aluminum block with no cylinder liner don't let it overheat. If you do your cylinder will go from round to oval.

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Old December 18th, 2017, 03:26 PM   #25
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10/4 on 2 strokes

I remember back in 70s someone said the lead in the gas was only thing lubing the rod rollers. That may have been BS but enough oil is more important than pedigree of it. My Senior Mechanic back then thought my Guzzi's 20/50 was thick while he used straight 10 in his 455 Pontiac but they served in different environments. The metal parts are happy w whatever molecules keep them apart.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 03:37 PM   #26
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I remember back in 70s someone said the lead in the gas was only thing lubing the rod rollers.
4-strokes had better not have gasoline on their connecting rods, and 2-strokes have an oil/fuel mixture bathing the rod's roller bearings, so yes... BS. The story, of course, is lead in fuel lubricates valve seats, but in general the problems caused by no-lead fuel are way overblown.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 04:22 PM   #27
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I have a problem with oil that starts as crude oil from underground being classified as synthetic, but it's not a big problem because I generally don't buy expensive oil.
Oligomerization changes the oil significantly and makes it chemically different from traditional oil.

Basically, it makes sure each oil molecule is exactly the same size and aligned the same way. So... what's "synthetic" is not the fluid itself, but the structure of that fluid, if you will. It's no more slippery or less slippery than conventional, it's more perfect. It's better for consistency and longevity. Sure... not really ALL that important for a motorcycle that sees seasonal use of <8,000 miles per year and has a sump of only 2 quarts, but you better believe it's a major concern in machines that run 24/7 and have oil sumps north of 1,000 gallons and go 5-10 years between overhauls.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 10:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randycastell View Post
"Shell Rotella T6 is definitely cheaper at only ~$21 at Walmart and you can easily pick it up at any time. Even cheaper if they are running a rebate at the time, which happens every so often."

HTB. I've only seen Shell Rotella T6 in the $45-50 range for 4 litres. Even at Walmart...
It didn't occur to me before but are you looking at 1L bottles or the 1 gal jugs? Cuz it's $21 for a 1 gal jug that is just a bit under 4L. Look for the 1 gal size.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 10:57 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
That really gets to my point... I have a Vega engine that had something like 200,000 miles on the crank, running with dino oil, and the journals measured within new tolerance. It doesn't matter much what oil you use, as long as it's there in the right amount and kept clean.
I wouldn't go that far when talking about cycle engines.

Oils have changed. A standard automotive oil (conventional or synthetic) is not a very good choice for a cycle engine or an older engine with solid (non-roller) lifters. The pressure at the contact areas are extreme and in certain conditions require special additives (Zinc and Phosphorus or "ZDDP") to prevent galling.

Current auto oils have reduced amounts of those additives to protect the emissions catalyst.

Diesel oils (conventional and synthetic) like Rotella and Delvac are not required to have lower levels, and have safe levels that are similar to most "cycle specific" oils.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 11:13 AM   #30
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Yes, I've read a lot about ZDDP, and have bought Valvoline VR1 for a particular application I have. I've also run low ZDDP oil in non-roller engines for many thousands of miles with no problems. The "certain conditions" you wrote is probably a good qualifier. Although I put VR1 in my 250 last time I changed the oil, I'm temped to run low ZDDP oil next time just so I can report my findings after my next valve adjustment.

Have you actually seen in person cam and lifter galling that you can attribute to low ZDDP oil? I had a BBC cam wipe a couple lobes once, but it was way before ZDDP levels were lowered, and it was a triple valve spring setup.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 11:35 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
Yes, I've read a lot about ZDDP, and have bought Valvoline VR1 for a particular application I have. I've also run low ZDDP oil in non-roller engines for many thousands of miles with no problems. The "certain conditions" you wrote is probably a good qualifier. Although I put VR1 in my 250 last time I changed the oil, I'm temped to run low ZDDP oil next time just so I can report my findings after my next valve adjustment.

Have you actually seen in person cam and lifter galling that you can attribute to low ZDDP oil? I had a BBC cam wipe a couple lobes once, but it was way before ZDDP levels were lowered, and it was a triple valve spring setup.
Why would you ever do that?

I've seen messed-up cams before, but not in any of my engines because I'm careful about maintenance and the products i use.

It's all in who you trust/believe. Don't take my word for it.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2015...or-oil-issues/

"Reducing ZDDP in motor oils created some serious cam lobe and lifter wear issues in older engines with flat tappet cams – especially those with hi-lift performance cams and stiffer valve springs. One fix was to run diesel motor oil in these engines to prevent cam wear. The higher level of ZDDP in diesel oils provided the same anti-wear protection as the older gasoline motor oils."


https://generalaviationnews.com/2013...-can-hurt-you/

"In a flat tappet lifter engine, the point where the camshaft contacts the lifter is the highest load point for the lubricant. ZDDP additives work by attacking and coating the cam and lifter face with a microscopic layer. Then when the lobe starts to open the valve, that layer is sheared off. This is called sacrificial lubrication and it greatly increases the load carrying capability of an oil."

http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm

"Our representative from a major supplier of performance and street engine parts (EPWI) stopped by to “warn us” of the problem of the NEW oils on flat tappet engines. This was a call that the representative was making only because of this problem to warn their engine builders! “The reduction of the zinc, manganese and phosphates are causing very early destruction of cams and followers”.

You can decide for yourself.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 12:01 PM   #32
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Oh, I've read all that stuff before. I'd try it to debunk the scary story. It's like the way I believed that running my MEP-003A generator below 1800 rpm would not hurt the regulator, and documented doing it while checking the regulator temperature in a effort to get the guys on Steel Soldiers to ease up in spreading that story. It didn't work very well though... the story is still being spread.

Edit: How about this quote from the Bobistheoilguy site. I haven't checked its source, mainly because I have stuff I need to get done today:

Quote:
The Starburst Oil Myth -- The latest myth promoted by the antique and collector car press says that new Starburst/ API SM engine oils (called Starburst for the shape of the symbol on the container) are bad for older engines because the amount of anti-wear additive in them has been reduced. The anti-wear additive being discussed is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP).

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatability was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

- Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s.

Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)
Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.

Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.

Special thanks to GM's Techlink
- Thanks to Bob Olree – GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group
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Old December 20th, 2017, 12:10 PM   #33
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Well, I didn't think there was any conspiracy going on, but do as you like.

The info is out there to help others that may not know there are differences in oils to make the right choice.

EDIT: The above tests were done on standard auto engines, which typically have less lift and valve spring pressure than motorcycle engines. As the lift and valve spring pressures increase, so does the chances of galling.

Really Jim - there are inexpensive solutions (diesel oil) that have what are generally agreed to be "safer" levels, so unless you really want to run an inexpensive auto oil to save a few cents there shouldn't be much debate.

Last futzed with by jkv45; December 20th, 2017 at 01:43 PM.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 02:07 PM   #34
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As I've tried to say before, it's not a matter of cost at all. I did post a little while ago that there are two groups of oil consumers, and neither one should not try to convince the other to change his beliefs. Both have engines that are running along fine.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 02:19 PM   #35
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As I've tried to say before, it's not a matter of cost at all. I did post a little while ago that there are two groups of oil consumers, and neither one should not try to convince the other to change his beliefs. Both have engines that are running along fine.
Come on guys!! We got into this silly thing called motorcycling where you stick a steel tank of 4.8 gallons of flammable fluid in your crotch, mount it directly over a 200 degree heat source and careen down the road on two wheels. We're all NUTS, it's just a matter of degree - but we're havin' fun. I think we should all run castor oil, cause it smells good when burned.

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Old December 20th, 2017, 04:41 PM   #36
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I had a BBC cam wipe a couple lobes once, but it was way before ZDDP levels were lowered, and it was a triple valve spring setup.
You're forgetting that ZDDP isn't the only AW/AO/Corrosion inhibitor additive out there. Current oil still has AW additives and that's important to remember if your application is flat tappets. Just because we've replaced ZDDP as an AO additive to stop killing cats doesn't mean that we've taken AW additives out of motor oil altogether.

I think the more important asterisk to the tappet galling issue is not to beware of low ZDDP oils, but to beware low AW oils for this application. IE, I wouldn't run an industrial compressor ISO 100 oil in my flat tappet engine that calls for 10W-40, even though the hot viscosity is similar. It's not about anecdotally saying "it's fine because I haven't seen a problem!", it's about finding the right oil for the application. Many will work, but there's always a way to ensure you're giving yourself the best chances possible. Oil sampling and testing is really the only way to know how your oil is performing.





When in doubt, call/email the contact on the website for whatever oil you are interested in running. They're usually really good about having people on staff who know what they're talking about to answer questions.

As always, pick one oil that you like the color/smell/taste of best and stick with it! All these additives we've been talking about don't necessarily play well together, especially when heated and mechanically agitated. Sludge is a real concern.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 08:16 AM   #37
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I like to use coconut oil, smells great, and if I get hungry, I can share some of my bike's supply.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 09:19 AM   #38
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I like to use coconut oil, smells great, and if I get hungry, I can share some of my bike's supply.


I really do use coconut oil for cutting oil in the machine shop. It works as well as any I've used, and doesn't stink the place up. A machinist showed me that trick around 1985.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 10:35 AM   #39
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Thank you all for the great discussion! And for sharing your knowledge and personal experience.

"I really do use coconut oil for cutting oil in the machine shop. It works as well as any I've used, and doesn't stink the place up. A machinist showed me that trick around 1985."

Thank you for the good suggestion! I'll bet it is a tad less expensive than the cutting oil I've been using. :-)
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Old December 21st, 2017, 12:34 PM   #40
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Thank you for the good suggestion! I'll bet it is a tad less expensive than the cutting oil I've been using. :-)
You'll love the smell, it's sorta like someone is making popcorn.
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