Missed shifts and false neutrals... or how do i work this thing??

[sickopsycho]

So, my shifting technique *could* be to blame, but I don't think it's too bad. Basically I shift without letting off the throttle much, and the whole operation is done in a fraction of a second. I basically grab and release the clutch *very* quickly as i bump up the shifter and normally this works great. However- I have recently been missing some shifts and I will even put the bike in neutral by mistake when shifting from 1st to 2nd. This actually was very dangerous to me recently because I was pulling out in traffic and hit neutral instead of 2nd. Any suggestions? I saw this little magic shifter spring from factory pro that claims to fix the problem... it's not expensive (like $35 shipped), but I dont want to do this if it's not really gonna help. Any advice?

[allanoue]

what kind and how old is the oil in your bike?

[sickopsycho]

Originally Posted by allanoue

what kind and how old is the oil in your bike?

It's the rotella t6 10w40 that is reccomended to run in this bike, and it has about 1000 miles on it.

[allanoue]

That is what I have in mine.

[Dave Wolfe]

The tranny gears are not undercut on the ninjette. So basically the dogs within the tranny will not snap into the next gear like they will on a nicer bike.

When shifting, pull or push on the shift lever and keep pressure on it for a lil bit until its completely in the new gear. Dont just tap the lever expecting it to stay in gear.

Also, I stretched my stock shift spring about 3mm (~10%) and it really helped too. It was a pain to stretch however you really need to pull it apart with a lot of force to get it to stretch. Dont change gears when you have the ahift spring out of the bike, a little cup will fly out and get lost. Then you will think it dropped inside the motor, then you will lose sleep for being a dipwad, i umm have a friend of mine, yeah really, that this happened to.

[sickopsycho]

Originally Posted by Dave Wolfe

The tranny gears are not undercut on the ninjette. So basically the dogs within the tranny will not snap into the next gear like they will on a nicer bike.

When shifting, pull or push on the shift lever and keep pressure on it for a lil bit until its completely in the new gear. Dont just tap the lever expecting it to stay in gear.

Also, I stretched my stock shift spring about 3mm (~10%) and it really helped too. It was a pain to stretch however you really need to pull it apart with a lot of force to get it to stretch. Dont change gears when you have the ahift spring out of the bike, a little cup will fly out and get lost. Then you will think it dropped inside the motor, then you will lose sleep for being a dipwad, i umm have a friend of mine, yeah really, that this happened to.

Actually, I was thinking about it and I kind of do this. I notice that if I try to shift without the clutch in, it wont move, so I leave a little pressure on the shift lever until i pop in the clutch and it clicks into gear. I was actually thinking this was bad for the tranny...
Stretching the spring helps, huh? Maybe I will try the factory pro spring, as it's probably a little tighter or has more force or is otherwise redesigned to be better for the bike?

[Triple Jim]

On the street it's completely unnecessary to do things like shifting without letting up on the throttle, or shifting without the clutch. If you're building a drag strip only bike, install an air shifter with ignition cutout, but on the street there's no need to make super-quick shifts. You can make nice, quick enough, clean shifts that are easy on the transmission, and enjoy not seeing metal flakes on your magnetic drain plug at oil changes.

[CC Cowboy]

Don't ride like a sicko or psycho and your bike will love you for it.

[allanoue]

How many months since the last oil change?

If it's close to a year then that is your problem.

[jkv45]

I'd say just slowdown on the shifts and use more clutch.

The Ninja's trans isn't super sport-spec, so what works on a bike with race credentials (R6, ZX6, etc) isn't going to work the same on the little Ninja.

If there's been some grinding going on, it may be a good time to change the oil.

Rotella T6 is just fine, but it is on the thin side for a 40-grade and does breakdown even lower. I used to run it in my SV, but after 1000 mi or so I felt the shifting degraded. Now I run a cycle-specific synthetic and the shifting doesn't change between oil changes.

[Z1R rider]

My Z1R started missing shifts when the output shaft bearing (behind the sprocket) was bad.

[JohnnyBravo]

I not a fan of my bike when it pops out of gear; all other times I love it

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by sickopsycho

I shift without letting off the throttle

Why?

[Dave Wolfe]

Shifting at full throttle sounds like the way you would ride a 125 cc two stroke mx bike. The ninjette isnt going to like it.

Personally I use the clutch on the 1-2 upshift, then go clutchless up thru 6. I clutch the downshifts. Works for me, ymmv. Mine tends to pop out of gear on occasion if I go clutchless on the 1-2 shift.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by sickopsycho

............ Any suggestions? I saw this little magic shifter spring from factory pro that claims to fix the problem... it's not expensive (like $35 shipped), but I dront want to do this if it's not really gonna help. Any advice?

Rather than trying springs and any other solution, I would verify that the external mechanism and shifter lever are completely free to move all the way up and down, with no resistance or hitting the frame.
Secondly, I would keep all the joints and pivots properly lubricated.

Then, I would switch gears properly, with full clutch disengagement and allowing time for the rpm's of engine and next gear to harmonize (the engine must slow down some, because the next gear up rotates a little slower than the previous one).
The opposite applies to downshifts.

[dcj13]

How long have you been riding?

How many different types of bikes have you ridden?

Do you preload the shift lever?

[rgx107]

I agree with what motofool says, check the external mechanism first. I have found mine to be loose on the shifter shaft, and had to be tightened. Also I found that in my case the bad shifts were on upshifting, never on downshift. It helped to adjust the lever downwards, my foot was simply not strong enough lifting up or rather did not have enough range upwards, possibly getting stiffer with age and stiff boots don't help either.

[sickopsycho]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Don't ride like a sicko or psycho and your bike will love you for it.

Thanks for contributing meaningful information to this conversation.

Originally Posted by allanoue

How many months since the last oil change?

If it's close to a year then that is your problem.

4months. Oil is doubtedly the issue, probably my technique.

Originally Posted by jkv45

I'd say just slowdown on the shifts and use more clutch.

The Ninja's trans isn't super sport-spec, so what works on a bike with race credentials (R6, ZX6, etc) isn't going to work the same on the little Ninja.

If there's been some grinding going on, it may be a good time to change the oil.

Rotella T6 is just fine, but it is on the thin side for a 40-grade and does breakdown even lower. I used to run it in my SV, but after 1000 mi or so I felt the shifting degraded. Now I run a cycle-specific synthetic and the shifting doesn't change between oil changes.

This is probably what's going on. I am new to riding and in all reality mostly taught myself. Nobody showed me how lol

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Why?

Because.

Originally Posted by Dave Wolfe

Shifting at full throttle sounds like the way you would ride a 125 cc two stroke mx bike. The ninjette isnt going to like it.

Personally I use the clutch on the 1-2 upshift, then go clutchless up thru 6. I clutch the downshifts. Works for me, ymmv. Mine tends to pop out of gear on occasion if I go clutchless on the 1-2 shift.

I actually read that clutch less shifting wasn't good for the bike either. I guess though it kind of is my bad. I'll try working on my technique and slowing it down a bit.
Thanks guys!

[sickopsycho]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Rather than trying springs and any other solution, I would verify that the external mechanism and shifter lever are completely free to move all the way up and down, with no resistance or hitting the frame.
Secondly, I would keep all the joints and pivots properly lubricated.

Then, I would switch gears properly, with full clutch disengagement and allowing time for the rpm's of engine and next gear to harmonize (the engine must slow down some, because the next gear up rotates a little slower than the previous one).
The opposite applies to downshifts.

I checked the shifter, was the first thing I looked at, then at clutch lever to make sure it was moving as it should. Good thinking, though.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by rgx107

It helped to adjust the lever downwards, my foot was simply not strong enough lifting up or rather did not have enough range upwards, possibly getting stiffer with age and stiff boots don't help either.

You've hit on why I've reversed the shift pattern on all my motorcycles since 1978. The Ninja 250 was the easiest one I've done. It required only cutting the lever almost all the way through, bending it down a bit and using stainless filler to TIG it back together. The result changed the angle enough so the linkage clears the pivot boss, and it can still be put back to the stock pattern in a couple minutes.

This started because of street drag racing my H2. (I was young ) Upshifting in a hurry when accelerating works much better when pushing down with my boot than trying to lift it up. Downshifting normally isn't such a rushed thing, so I didn't tend to goof those up.

I found I liked the pattern so much I've stuck with it. Of course now there's the buzz term for a reversed pattern: GP Shift

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/atta...1&d=1485613850

[jrshooter]

im with tripple jim
if its not mechanical , go gp shift , for reasons stated above.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by sickopsycho

4months. Oil is doubtedly the issue, probably my technique.

yeap

There is an AMA rooky of the year who used to be on here a lot (still stops by every now and again) he uses his clutch every time; so, so do I.

He posted a video of his hands as he accelerated throu all the gears on his 250.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by sickopsycho

I checked the shifter, was the first thing I looked at, then at clutch lever to make sure it was moving as it should. Good thinking, though.

Please, allow me to insist on the last portion of my previous post.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/E-Z_shifting_for_beginners

[sickopsycho]

Also just for clarification I don't stay hard on the throttle when I change gears. Mostly I just kind of leave it at the same RPM and change the gears. The throttle does not rev when I engage the clutch and it may in fact drop a small amount but the process of Shifting Gears is just very fast and that's where I thought I had the problem. I will take a look at that article you posted I appreciate the link and thanks for all you guys' help I don't think my bike has a problem I think it's driver error