Dead battery?

[Alex]

Rolled the 300 out to the driveway this morning to join a group ride, turned the key, and nothing. Nada. Dash wouldn't even come on. The GPS was powered on, so the battery has at least as much power as 2 AA batteries, but that might be it.

I plugged in a battery tender into the plug I'd installed, and the blinking red light didn't even stop blinking to show that charging has started; it's as if the battery is completely disconnected. I put the gerbing heat controller there, and it wouldn't even power the LED light. Weird!

I started to take the seat off to get to the battery itself, but forgot about the cover and other wiring you need to move on the 300, so I said heck with it and took the other bike. Now that I'm back home, will cool off for a little while before going out to the garage and seeing if the battery is truly dead. Seems a little early for one of these to go kaput...

[ForceofWill]

Ground come loose maybe?

[alex.s]

did you do any backflips on it recently? that can screw with the lead acid batteries

[InvisiBill]

Where do you have the GPS plug wired into, directly to the battery terminals? Assuming the 300 is the same as the 250/500, the OEM wiring goes into the Main fuse right after the battery. If that fuse blows, nothing on the bike will have power. If the GPS plug is wired directly to the battery terminals, it will still have power though.

But I assume the Tender plug is wired directly to the battery terminals as well. The fact that the Tender indicated a battery issue, along with the fact that the battery wasn't powering the bike, seems to point to the battery actually being bad.

Like ForceofWill said, it could also be a loose connection somewhere important.

[dcj13]

AGM battery? They can fail like that... .

[Alex]

Normal OEM battery, FTX9-BS. I pulled the cover, tried to charge directly to the terminals via alligator clips, it wouldn't even register to start charging. It's toast. Pulled it out of the bike, put it on the floor, and retried again; same result, with two different battery tenders. Plugged the battery tenders into another bike to confirm they were working fine, and they are.

Weird for it to fail so completely like that, and the first symptom to be that it is dead in the garage, after working completely fine on the last ride (though I'm not sure exactly how long ago that was).

[Alex]

Ordered this one from Amazon, prime shipping:

Yuasa YUAM329BS YTX9-BS Battery: link on Amazon

OEM battery doesn't appear to be a Yuasa anymore, at least it isn't branded as such. Service manual says FTX9-BS, not YTX9-BS. Yuasa's site is a little out of date and unsearchable for motorcycles newer than 2012, so I had a little hesitation between the YUAM729BS and the YUAM329BS. The 729BS says its size is YTX9, but if you search on the Yuasa site for YTX9-BS, that 729BS does come up. Interestingly, when you search by part number on the Yuasa site, the 329BS doesn't seem to exist.

[Somchai]

@Alex, maybe your battery is from Thai accessory - they don't last longer than 18 month.

[Ghostt]

This is why I installed one of these,

GAMMATRONIX integrated led battery charge / standby indicator

It's a good way to keep on eye on the battery, and charging system, something to consider.

[Alex]

Maybe. Here is the battery I just pulled out of my 300:



Here is a pic from Amazon of the replacement battery I ordered (YUAM329BS):



Here is a pic from Amazon of the battery I almost ordered, but wasn't sure of the size (YUAM729BS):

[Ghostt]

Personally go sealed gel, no fuss, no muss.

Lead acid is soo 19th century

YTX9-BS High Performance - Maintenance Free - Sealed iGel Motorcycle Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IUWM59O..._-eQ2vbE1KQ6PH

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

This is why I installed one of these,

GAMMATRONIX integrated led battery charge / standby indicator

It's a good way to keep on eye on the battery, and charging system, something to consider.

I have considered adding a voltmeter to bikes in the past, but haven't gotten around to it. I wouldn't start with the ninjette, as I don't have a whole pile of strange electrical accessories on it. I would be less surprised if something went wrong on my rallybike's battery, so today was a little unexpected.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by Alex

I have considered adding a voltmeter to bikes in the past, but haven't gotten around to it. I wouldn't start with the ninjette, as I don't have a whole pile of strange electrical accessories on it. I would be less surprised if something went wrong on my rallybike's battery, so today was a little unexpected.

I hear you, I just like the simple design of the gammatronix

Gotta ask, why didn't you have the tender plugged in to start with? If you don't ride it that much?

[xorbe]

Same problem on Saturday. I rolled the bike out, hit the starter button, and that was the last of the dash lights after a small click. My Yuasa battery was completely dry at 23 months. So I ordered the "other" one this time, just to try it.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Gotta ask, why didn't you have the tender plugged in to start with? If you don't ride it that much?

Just hasn't been a habit or a need to have them plugged in full time. If I haven't used a bike in awhile, I'll plug in the tender the night before, but even that's a rare occurrence. And almost every time that I do, the tender starts blinking green immediately, showing that the battery still has at least 90% charge already. These bikes are in a garage in northern california, so there just aren't temp extremes that would be expected to shorten their life. None of the bikes are ever winterized either, so they do get use every couple weeks at most. As far as I can remember, this is only the 3rd or 4th battery I've ever had to replace. My ZX-10R battery got weak after 5 years or so, same with the battery on my 2005 RT. I may have had to replace a battery once on my ZX-12R many years ago, but I kept killing that battery by my own stupidity, with accessories wired directly to the battery left on several times, draining it to nothing.

[alex.s]

is it refillable and just needs some juice? some batteries simply need an extra large smack to break up the crystals after a long sleep. they make battery chargers that can do this

[Alex]

It appears to be a sealed design.

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Personally go sealed gel, no fuss, no muss.

Lead acid is soo 19th century

YTX9-BS High Performance - Maintenance Free - Sealed iGel Motorcycle Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IUWM59O..._-eQ2vbE1KQ6PH

Personally go Li-ion, no fuss, no muss.

Anything else is soooo 20th century

Will need checking and maybe balancing (takes 1-2 hours) every year or so but will pay its money since it will last 10 years or more... mine is already 5 yrs on the bike and still good as new, weighs up to 1,5kgs for a 12pack (the 250 can easily work with an 8pack) that can power up a stroked busa or a V-2 and has been powering my ZX-12 while my 250 is in the workshop...

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

Personally go Li-ion, no fuss, no muss.

Anything else is soooo 20th century

Will need checking and maybe balancing (takes 1-2 hours) every year or so but will pay its money since it will last 10 years or more... mine is already 5 yrs on the bike and still good as new, weighs up to 1,5kgs for a 12pack (the 250 can easily work with an 8pack) that can power up a stroked busa or a V-2 and has been powering my ZX-12 while my 250 is in the workshop...

Interesting, I love technology from the future, do you have link? Cost?

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Interesting, I love technology from the future, do you have link? Cost?

varies depending on quality and nr of elements... 4pack will work on a 250 but not enough if you have stuff like piggybacks, auxiliary lighting etc...
I would go for a 8pack minimum (which is very light and small) but a 12pack will do on any bike no matter the cc or cylinder configuration...
I once managed to start up a 4cyl 2.0l car engine with it...

I have this one (was new model back at the time I purchased and costed 150euros) but now there are more models and maybe better brands and quality than mine...

http://www.amazon.com/Ballistic-Perf.../dp/B0068EQP9M

their official site
https://www.ballisticparts.com/

If you look around some more, you will find many options

[xorbe]

How do lithium batteries interact with the stock charging system? There must be some embedded electronics.

[Alex]

The YUAM329BS fit fine. Arrived last night, filled it and charged it overnight, and the bike is all buttoned back up. Needed a second pair of hands to help get the battery bolts back in; with the accessory wires on top, the bolt isn't long enough to catch the nut at the bottom, so Annie needed to prop it up slightly so it would catch. I'm always skeptical that the batteries are installed/prepped properly when they are trying to rush the bike out of the shop when you buy it, so at least I know that this one was prepped properly. Hopefully it will last the rest of this bike's lifetime, for that $57.

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by alex.s

is it refillable and just needs some juice? some batteries simply need an extra large smack to break up the crystals after a long sleep. they make battery chargers that can do this

If you're careful, you can make one yourself pretty easily too :-)

[Ghostt]

I've looked into those before, but the price tag was a bit too steep for me.

[xorbe]

With the new battery in place, I measured 14.75 volts from the Battery Tender. Seems kinda high. I don't think it needs 1,250mA maintenance. I think it cooked the fluid out of the battery. I'd be more comfortable with 13.4-13.6 volts. I'm not going to leave it hooked up to the Battery Tender this time.

I have a fancy-pants R/C charger that is highly configurable across many battery types ($$$). I'll see what it can do.

[rojoracing53]

make sure you haven't added any new usb charger ports recently. You know, the adapter that you push into your open 12v port then plug usb powered accessories. more and more of these cheap usb chargers don't shut down when not in use and were the reason my battery kept flat lining after 2 days of no riding. I was able to bump start the bike each time after many tries so at least the battery wasn't KIA like your.

[xorbe]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

make sure you haven't added any new usb charger ports recently. You know, the adapter that you push into your open 12v port then plug usb powered accessories. more and more of these cheap usb chargers don't shut down when not in use and were the reason my battery kept flat lining after 2 days of no riding. I was able to bump start the bike each time after many tries so at least the battery wasn't KIA like your.

As long as your USB devices are all low wattage, it should tap into anything switched for power. It should never be wired straight to the battery. Otherwise put it on a relay.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Alex

It appears to be a sealed design.

So it was an AGM (absorbed glass mat) chemistry.

A lot of folks love AGM batteries because they're sealed, they don't vent or spill acid, they're maintenance-free, and because they don't lose about 1% of their charge per day like ordinary old fashioned FLA (flooded lead acid) batteries do. And lots of folks have had them last several years.

There is a down side to them, however. When they die, they do it suddenly: 12+ VDC open circuit voltage; dropping to two volts or less under load of the starter motor. And a lot of people have found they only get one and a half or two years out of them. An old fashioned FLA battery will usually fail gently: you'll go out to start the bike (or car) in October or November and it'll crank over a little slower than it usually does, but it starts and you go on your ride (or drive). The FLA battery just told you, "Time to replace me pretty soon!" AGMs don't do that: worked great yesterday; dead today.

Like all things in life, battery chemistry is a trade-off.

[Alex]

Its Yuasa replacement I purchased is an AGM design as well. Do any OEM bike batteries come as FLA anymore? All of the ones I've ever looked at in my bikes have been sealed.

[dcj13]

Dunno. My newest bike is the 2005 KLR250, which came with a FLA battery.

I just ordered a FLA Yuasa from Amazon for my BMW the day before yesterday. Current FLA Mareg battery is 7 years old, so time to replace it even though it hasn't gone south yet.

Had my less-than-stellar experience with a less-than-two-year-old AGM on the BMW (7 years ago). I'll stick with the FLA chemistry, especially if I can pour the acid and charge it myself, for as long as FLAs are available.

[Alex]

The Yuasa AGM also comes dry, and you do pour the acid in yourself, charge it, then seal it. Here's a page on their site that shows 4 different types of their batteries:

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/batteries.php

(AGM, YuMicron, YuMicron CX, and Conventional)

It does look like AGM is sold as the maintenance-free type, everything else is some variant of FLA requiring some level of maintenance. The YuMicron's are sold as requiring less maintenance than "normal", but still some; and the Conventional are likely the standard FLA-type that you're describing.

Found these useful charts to describe the Yuasa naming system, along with a cross-reference that shows how the families fit together. For what's it's worth, there are no cross-references that matter for ninjette owners, as Yuasa seems to only sell a AGM type whether you search for pre-gen or new-gen years. I see what you mean with the KLR though, when I search by vehicle for a 2005 KLR on that site, it does show options of both AGM and conventional.

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