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Old November 21st, 2014, 04:11 PM   #201
garth285
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Just on N/A bikes running 190-200hp we see 8-10hp

So you may only see a 2hp gain if you are looking t the same percentage. If you have ever used MR12 on the bike you will see about the same gain.

E85 is 104 octane though so its great for high compression/nitrous/turbo

My turbo buss went from making 260hp to 290hp on E85!

The Turbo 250 is home from the fabricator so I'll have her boosting soon :-)
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 06:18 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by bruce71198 View Post
How difficult would it be to get one of these radiators to the USA?
Sorry, but to this question I'm not able to give a qualified answer since I don't know many about your customs and post services.
Maybe you send them an email.
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 11:50 AM   #203
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How difficult would it be to get one of these radiators to the USA?
I think it is the same one @Swann was posting about in his thread
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187156
check it out Bruce...
I think the price is good but p&p along with taxes to get to the States might make it an expensive option...
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Old December 3rd, 2014, 04:37 PM   #204
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DO NOT USE COPPER GASKETS IN A WATER COOLED ENGINE!!!!!!!!!! They seal compression VERY well but they leak oil and water like a sieve! All I do monday-friday is help people build drag bike engines. If they tell me it will be a track only oil/air cooled bike, copper and o-ringed cylinders. If its water cooled, or ridden on the street at all, it better be a multi-layed steel. Call Cometic, they can stamp you out a thicker base gasket, and a good head gasket. Spacing up they cylinder is the better option over a thicker head gasket. As long as you have proper torque and a perfectly clean and flat surface your head gasket should hold.
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Old December 3rd, 2014, 05:05 PM   #205
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What about spraying the gasket with a coper tack adhesive ? Then let it dry. I have used this on used steel gaskets with great success. I run a nitrous bike and sometimes have to use what I have.
I have never used copper gaskets by it I have some. They are to thick for my needs. But I never heard anyone say they would not hold water and oil. I do believe you. Just never heard it before.
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Old December 3rd, 2014, 07:33 PM   #206
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Copper gaskets normally are used in racing sports only and here's a quick-guugle-translation from a german producer:
1. The sealing surfaces of cylinder and head made must be absolutely clean and flat. Minimum distortion may later affect the tightness.
We recommend to plan both parts before assembly with low material removal.
2. Before the head gasket can be used, it must be annealed. This is most easily when the seal is placed on a non-combustible and clean surface (or similar gas burner) by means of a flame is heated to incandescence. CAUTION: glowing copper has a temperature of about 600° C.
Cooling can be done where copper is also by rapid cooling has no hardening effects as steel. However, rapid cooling can lead to distortion and should therefore be avoided.
3. Blazing Copper reacts with atmospheric oxygen and forms a layer of copper.
So that the seal thereby does not stick to the cylinder or head made again and remains usable, they should before assembly with a Heat-resistant release agent and lubricant (eg Würth CU800) are sprayed.

I hope it's to understand.
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Old December 5th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #207
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Here's my experience with copper gaskets; I run big bore Suzuki SV 650s. Anything over 2 millimeters overbore and you need to run a copper gasket. We do use a peratex spray on them during assembly. We do reuse them,we anneal them at 400° and then let them air cool. Big bore SV 650s have problems with any head gasket you use on them, just less with the copper. I am still working on figuring this overheat issue out but as the race season has ended here for a few months I will take that time to get it dialed in.
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Old September 28th, 2015, 12:41 PM   #208
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Well its been a while since I have had time to sort this bike out. I set the squish at .041" which has dramatically lowered cylinder pressure. Raced it all weekend without blowing the head gasket. I also took the advanced flywheel key out and ran the stock one, so less timing too. The bike ran well, didn't pull as hard to the rev limiter so I short shifted it to make use of the mid range torque. I did put a bigger radiator on it, I can not tell what it is off of as I found it at a swap meet. Ran a temp guage on it as well, coolant temp stayed right at 180 degrees.
So in comparison to other bikes? I beat every KTM390 (4 on the grid) every ninja 300 (3), one yamaha R3, Ninja 250"s aren't a challenge,1 Aprillia 250 cup, bike, 1 electric bike, 1 Hawk, Raced up into the lightweight field and waxed an air cooled Buell and several ametuers on SV650's.
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Old September 28th, 2015, 01:33 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce71198 View Post
(SNIP)
So in comparison to other bikes? I beat every KTM390 (4 on the grid) every ninja 300 (3), one yamaha R3, Ninja 250"s aren't a challenge,1 Aprillia 250 cup, bike, 1 electric bike, 1 Hawk, Raced up into the lightweight field and waxed an air cooled Buell and several ametuers on SV650's.
Might need to give some credit to the rider...

Was Jeff on the R3?

Congrats.
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Old September 28th, 2015, 05:13 PM   #210
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Nice. I too think the riders had a lot to do with that mix.

You should get it to the dyno and post those numbers!
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Old September 28th, 2015, 05:52 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce71198 View Post
Well its been a while since I have had time to sort this bike out. I set the squish at .041" which has dramatically lowered cylinder pressure. Raced it all weekend without blowing the head gasket. I also took the advanced flywheel key out and ran the stock one, so less timing too. The bike ran well, didn't pull as hard to the rev limiter so I short shifted it to make use of the mid range torque. I did put a bigger radiator on it, I can not tell what it is off of as I found it at a swap meet. Ran a temp guage on it as well, coolant temp stayed right at 180 degrees.
So in comparison to other bikes? I beat every KTM390 (4 on the grid) every ninja 300 (3), one yamaha R3, Ninja 250"s aren't a challenge,1 Aprillia 250 cup, bike, 1 electric bike, 1 Hawk, Raced up into the lightweight field and waxed an air cooled Buell and several ametuers on SV650's.
Do KTM's seem to be the hot ticket? Or what out of this class of bikes seems to be the fastest at the track?
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Old September 28th, 2015, 06:35 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Might need to give some credit to the rider...

Was Jeff on the R3?

Congrats.
I'm not sure who was on the R3. It was a nice looking bike .
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Old September 28th, 2015, 06:38 PM   #213
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Do KTM's seem to be the hot ticket? Or what out of this class of bikes seems to be the fastest at the track?
That's a good ? I would say in that category the KTM. My son was out there on his cup bike with the throttle limiter for MA and he bettered my lap times.
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Old September 28th, 2015, 07:34 PM   #214
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If you're still looking for cooling options, there were some Suburbans (I think older ones) that had heater cores in the rear, with fans attached to them. Some of the SyTy guys used them as aux radiators for the intercooler system. They were sized to fit well near the foglight openings if I remember correctly, so they might be a bit small to use as a main radiator.

I found http://wayback.archive.org/web/20050...CCHE_mods.html using a '77 Suburban heater core, but it doesn't seem to have the fans included. It actually looks like it's a decent size, compared to the front end of an S-truck.


The VFR800 has dual radiators mounted along the side, with the fairing ducting air in from the front-center and out-back through the radiators.

(Recognize that tail?)

I know the VFR is very different, but maybe it could work to set up two smaller radiators (like heater cores) more toward the side like that. I have very little actual experience in this department, I'm just tossing out options that might trigger someone who knows something to figure out some great idea...
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Old September 29th, 2015, 04:57 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce71198 View Post
Well its been a while since I have had time to sort this bike out. I set the squish at .041" which has dramatically lowered cylinder pressure. Raced it all weekend without blowing the head gasket. I also took the advanced flywheel key out and ran the stock one, so less timing too. The bike ran well, didn't pull as hard to the rev limiter so I short shifted it to make use of the mid range torque. I did put a bigger radiator on it, I can not tell what it is off of as I found it at a swap meet. Ran a temp guage on it as well, coolant temp stayed right at 180 degrees.
So in comparison to other bikes? I beat every KTM390 (4 on the grid) every ninja 300 (3), one yamaha R3, Ninja 250"s aren't a challenge,1 Aprillia 250 cup, bike, 1 electric bike, 1 Hawk, Raced up into the lightweight field and waxed an air cooled Buell and several ametuers on SV650's.
nice to hear you're having it running again...
you did the right figure about squish, will be safe and sound that way...
the lack of appetite for top revving is mostly because you're usinh the 250 head with the small intake valves and the cam duration... switching to wilder cams and bigger intake valves or a whole 300 head will make it unbeatable...
but keep it that way for a while, no need to take it apart now that you got it right...
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Old September 29th, 2015, 06:11 AM   #216
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Do KTM's seem to be the hot ticket? Or what out of this class of bikes seems to be the fastest at the track?
The bikes with the fastest riders on them .......
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Old September 29th, 2015, 10:38 AM   #217
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nice to hear you're having it running again...
you did the right figure about squish, will be safe and sound that way...
the lack of appetite for top revving is mostly because you're usinh the 250 head with the small intake valves and the cam duration... switching to wilder cams and bigger intake valves or a whole 300 head will make it unbeatable...
but keep it that way for a while, no need to take it apart now that you got it right...
I have been away for too long. Does the 300 head bolt right up?
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Old September 29th, 2015, 01:03 PM   #218
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It very well should. I think there are a couple minor differences in the gasket but should still line up. It has larger runners and matching intake boots as well.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 01:17 PM   #219
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I have been away for too long. Does the 300 head bolt right up?
cuong put this together a while back highlighting the differences between the 250 and 300 engines. Some significant internal changes were made - https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...00+differences
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Old September 29th, 2015, 02:39 PM   #220
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Might need to give some credit to the rider...

Was Jeff on the R3?

Congrats.
I just checked the results, it was Jeff.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 02:43 PM   #221
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I have been away for too long. Does the 300 head bolt right up?
I have the 300 head on mine. Direct bolt on.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 02:49 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by micoulisninja View Post
nice to hear you're having it running again...
you did the right figure about squish, will be safe and sound that way...
the lack of appetite for top revving is mostly because you're usinh the 250 head with the small intake valves and the cam duration... switching to wilder cams and bigger intake valves or a whole 300 head will make it unbeatable...
but keep it that way for a while, no need to take it apart now that you got it right...
I am running the 300 head on this one. I think I'm on the conservative end of the spectrum as far as squish. I have another 300 crank and a 67mm block I'm going to put together over the winter. Cams, rods, CR carbs, 300 head, total loss electrical. We'll see what happens. The race organizations seem to be leaning towards super bike rules for the 250's and super sport rules for the 300's and up racing in the same class.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 02:53 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisiBill View Post
If you're still looking for cooling options, there were some Suburbans (I think older ones) that had heater cores in the rear, with fans attached to them. Some of the SyTy guys used them as aux radiators for the intercooler system. They were sized to fit well near the foglight openings if I remember correctly, so they might be a bit small to use as a main radiator.

I found http://wayback.archive.org/web/20050...CCHE_mods.html using a '77 Suburban heater core, but it doesn't seem to have the fans included. It actually looks like it's a decent size, compared to the front end of an S-truck.


The VFR800 has dual radiators mounted along the side, with the fairing ducting air in from the front-center and out-back through the radiators.

(Recognize that tail?)

I know the VFR is very different, but maybe it could work to set up two smaller radiators (like heater cores) more toward the side like that. I have very little actual experience in this department, I'm just tossing out options that might trigger someone who knows something to figure out some great idea...
Thanks for the info. I sat in the radiator warehouse for hours one night going through their heater cores trying to find one that would fit. Found many candidates but opted for this radiator I found at a swap meet, now if I can figure out what it fits I'll order a new one.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 06:45 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by bruce71198 View Post
I just checked the results, it was Jeff.
That was his first time out with the R3.

He had been racing the blue SV with the yellow wheels, but sold it.
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