July 31st, 2012, 08:52 AM | #1 |
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Connecting rod free play
So I ordered a used short block for the 250 and I noticed that when I twist the rod perpendicular to the crank (like a screwdriver) there is a noticeable slop or free play in the bearing. Video below. I was wondering if this is acceptable for a journal that is only about half an inch wide or if this is too much. There is no detectable up and down free play (the way the piston moves).
Anybody have any experience with rod bearings that can answer this?
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July 31st, 2012, 09:01 AM | #2 |
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That is no good. The clearance is thousands of an mm . That looks like the motor has a lot of sludge also.. How much did you pay? The head is worth good money if the cams are ok
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July 31st, 2012, 09:15 AM | #3 |
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Yeah the head is worth money!! Especially when you run into people like me who unexpectedly found stripped plug threads
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July 31st, 2012, 09:24 AM | #4 | |
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Quote:
I'm going to call the ebay seller and ask what's next.
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July 31st, 2012, 09:47 AM | #5 |
wat
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yeah the seller ripped you off sorry bro. i would file a paypal complaint if he doesnt refund you. paypal is great about giving you back your money but you have to do it fairly quickly i hear
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July 31st, 2012, 09:55 AM | #6 |
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I called the ebay dealer and told him what you said and I suspected. I told him that I was willing to split the case and inspect the crank. Basically, he's willing to refund the full purchase price if the crank or rods are bad - and the cost of new bearings if its only the bearings.
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July 31st, 2012, 09:59 AM | #7 |
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You should try to fix it if you can. The last rocker arm 250 ninja engine was 2007 that is six years ago. In four years you will not find any used engines.
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July 31st, 2012, 11:44 AM | #8 |
wat
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if the bearings have gone already wont there be lots of damage to both the crank journal and the rod surfaces? seems expensive to fix
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July 31st, 2012, 11:55 AM | #9 | |
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Connecting rod twist service limit is 0.2 mm at the end of a 100 mm lever. Actually, you could measure the actual clearance by moving the rod up and down against a dial and compare it to limit spec (0.10 mm). It is not easy to precisely measure it after dissembling it: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...e/viewall.html
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August 1st, 2012, 10:59 AM | #10 |
wat
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@Motofool dont they make little ink strips that you can put in and fully assemble then disassemble and measure the crush thickness? i forget what they are called... maybe thats too big of a clearance for those.
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August 1st, 2012, 11:08 AM | #11 | |
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August 1st, 2012, 12:19 PM | #12 |
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That's a good idea. I actually have some of those and was wondering how I was going to test this thing.
I got it apart, removed one rod, and can't find anything wrong with it. They twisted and wobbled as shown in the video, but the caliper says they are all OK and there is no signs of wear on either the bearing or the crank. I didn't take the other one off yet until I figure it out. I'm going to use some plastigage to check to see if the clamp pressure is even. If it is, I'm probably going to just throw it all back together and start riding. I'm thinking I might take the crank to a bike mechanic and ask him what he thinks.
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August 2nd, 2012, 05:08 AM | #13 |
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The plastigage shows the bearings are in the tight end of the spec. It showed a clearance of 0.038mm and the acceptable range is 0.031-0.059 with a service limit of 0.10mm.
SO the plan is to ask the mechanic. Could be something I'm overlooking.
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August 2nd, 2012, 05:58 AM | #14 |
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Take the crank and rods to a machinest. A bike mechanic will not have the tools for that.
In the video it looks like a lot more play than you describe. Measure the crank see if the machinest can polish the crank and re fit with new bearings. You also need to replace the rod bolts. |
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August 2nd, 2012, 10:47 AM | #15 |
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The bike mechanic said the bearings were burnt. He said they have been rubbing the rods the wrong way and got burned. The crank looks good, but I'm not certain about the rods. The rod looks scuffed under the bearing. He said I should get all new rod bearings. I also need to get new bolts, but they said I could use the same nuts.
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August 2nd, 2012, 11:05 AM | #16 |
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The bolts come with nuts. Let me see some photos of the crank rod ends and bearings. Don't mix up the rod caps.
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August 2nd, 2012, 11:47 AM | #17 | |
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Quote:
Upon examination, it appears that the rods are out of round by about 3-4 thousandths of an inch. The crank journals appear round. Unless there is a way to fix these rods, I'm thinking I need new ones.
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August 2nd, 2012, 12:25 PM | #18 |
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The bearing look spun to me but I a m looking with a phone. You need a machinest to see if he can turn the crank and tru the rods and te balance shaft. This will fix but it will not be cheap.
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August 2nd, 2012, 12:55 PM | #19 |
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N4mwd, what happened to your engine that you have it in pieces like this? I would offer you parts, but I don't exactly have any spare engines laying around...
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August 2nd, 2012, 01:29 PM | #20 | ||
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Quote:
I talked to a machine shop guy and they said they could fix the rods by shaving the cap mating surfaces and then re-boring them to bring them back to factory spec. The guy who sold me the short block said he would pay for it. Quote:
Its still not right, but I'm getting closer.
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August 2nd, 2012, 01:48 PM | #21 |
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Where do you get your bolts from? The dealer sells the nuts separately. Bolt = $5.68, nut = $3.34. I'd prefer to change both. Is there an aftermarket equivalent?
I stretched one of the old bolts trying to torque it down. I'm thinking they must be made of some pretty sorry steel to stretch like that. I think even aluminum would do better.
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August 2nd, 2012, 02:34 PM | #22 | ||
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Good sign the machinist knows what he is doing. The cap bolts are only intended for single use. They are designed to stretch with proper amount of torque applied. Cylinder head bolts are a common application for stretch upon torque single use only bolts. |
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August 2nd, 2012, 02:52 PM | #23 | |
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August 5th, 2012, 10:41 AM | #24 | |
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I have seen several insurance bikes that had roasted cam journals due to oil starvation whilst running on its side. With how nasty that bottom end looks I would suspect the PO just never changed the oil.
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August 5th, 2012, 12:21 PM | #25 | |
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Running on side... +1 I have to admit, that is the answer I've been looking for. I think both this short block and the rescue bike were involved in accidents. Running on their sides would explain why the oil pump lost prime and let the bearings run dry. Both bikes allegedly had low miles (5K-6K). Anyhow, its a much more palatable explanation for the loss of oil pressure than assuming that the PO let it run without oil (ignoring the fact that a bike with only 5K miles would not likely be out of oil in the first place). Thanks, its starting to make sense.
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